Lionel says Cannot be done??

Why is the title of the thread "Lionel Says Cannot Be Done" when the REAL statement that Lionel made (according to your post) is they "cannot give instructions"???

Perhaps you were not clear to Lionel?  Perhaps they didn't want to be responsible for you blowing your transformers?  Many, many issues.

Your thread title is misleading.

Peter Cazz posted:

Can the CW 80 and the 180 powerhouse be phased? Peter C.

I don't think they can. The powerhouse is pure sine wave and the CW80 is chopped sine wave. Phasing can only work with two pure sine wave transformers. Two identical chopped wave transformers could be phased but two different chopped wave transformers would only work if their outputs matched. Luck involved with the latter.

Your voltmeter is reading RMS voltage. If you had an oscilloscope and put both outputs on the screen and superimposed them you would see most of the time the voltage differs. Any differences means the higher voltage is trying to drive the transformer with lower voltage at that point in time.

Pete

This is an interesting conundrum. I am about to convert my track power from 4 LW's to 2 PH180's but intend to use an already existing LW and a KW for switch machine, signal, and accessory lighting. The KW and LW is phased with the 4 other LW's. Can they be phased with the PH180's?

Just to be clear on several points, is that first the pleasant lady on the phone said "it could not be done." She spoke about the Molex connector. I told her I bought their adaptor. Then she put me on hold and came back stating that the techs told her that they had no instructions on how to do it. Then put me on hold again saying that the techs do not advise to do it but with no explanation as to why. 

In the end they show in their own video a CW80 phasing with two other transformers but they do not say what the other two are. The one with just the single red and black terminals looks like the controller that comes with the 180 powerhouse as they can be bough separate or together. Maybe it's not?

I just kind of find it hard to believe that I'm the only one to ever try phasing these two most common transformers. I'm new here and I apologize if any thing was misleading as it was not my intention. As I said she ending saying she could not help and that was what the techs informed her of a response. I was just surprised at that.

I thought the phasing was a simple matter, and that I was doing something wrong. 

The other thing is why am I getting the voltage across the hot terminals without one of the transformers even plugged in, sine wave discussion apart? Is there some reason for this? Thank you. 

Are you saying you can measure voltage across the terminals with NEITHER of the two power supplies plugged in?  Or across the second one when only the first is plugged in?

Why are you trying to phase them at all?  You mention nothing about using a common nuetral (Ground for you DC people). You also say that you are using one transformer for "accessories" and one to run your trains.  You do not meet the criteria for needing to phase your transformers regardless of the type of sine wave put out.

Not not with neither plugged in. I'm new yes, crazy no. Just kidding of course. 

I 'm reading when only one is plugged in. With the neutrals connected together, with only the brick plugged in I read 18v across the hots. With the CW 80 only plugged in the reading varies of course with throttle. With both plugged in as you bring up CW 80 throttle it's green light blinks as a short.

All the posts I've read says that there should be little or no reading across reds/hots. How can be out of phase with only one plugged in? I'm missing something here, on several fronts. How can you phase a polarized plug and why out of phase if plugged into the same power strip with polarized sockets? Then it is not possible to phase the CW 80 and the powerhouse? 

Jim, First thank you for replying. I thought I needed to phase the transformers as I have the gateman activated by the train from the outside rail as it passes. The power for the gateman coming from the CW 80 as to not have the full 18v from the brick. That is exactly how Lionel shows and explains is necessary in their video for phasing.

Loose-Caboose posted:

Why are you trying to phase them at all?  You mention nothing about using a common nuetral (Ground for you DC people). You also say that you are using one transformer for "accessories" and one to run your trains.  You do not meet the criteria for needing to phase your transformers regardless of the type of sine wave put out.

BINGO.

Oddly enough, for the application you describe, they do not need to be phased, and can share a common return.

See this recent thread HERE to see how it worked out for another forum member.

Rob,

I thank you for your reply. So just to be ultra-clear, I can wire the 180 powerhouse directly to the DCS to supply full 18V to the track. Then I can wire the gateman with the neutral to the outside insulated track rail of the accessory activator track, ( which as the train passes through would actually be connected through the train axles, to the 180 brick through the DCS,) and the hot of the gateman to the red (A) and the neutral of the light of the gateman to the black (U) of the CW 80?

I have the light of the gateman hooked up to have the shed light on all the time from the CW 80. Can you confirm that this is all ok? A forum member above seemed to think that the wrong hook-up could blow the transformers.

Am I missing something here? If the share a common ground aren’t they phased?

The wiring of the rails for DCS other than the control rail is normal... that is, outside rails to the layout common on the TIU and center rail to the hot output from the TIU.

The rest is assuming you have a newer "G" date code or newer CW-80.

Wire the solenoid terminal from the gateman to the insulated control rail and the common terminal of the gateman to the voltage that you want to power it with - let's say one of the "A" posts(whichever you are using - lever control or programmable accessory).  Connect the bulb terminal to the "U" post. As it is now, when you set your accessory voltage, the light comes on, but the man stays in.

The circuit through the wheels/axles is completed to power the solenoid with the CW. The DCS track power has nothing to do with the circuit at all except for sharing a common return.

romiller49 posted:

Am I missing something here? If the share a common ground aren’t they phased?

Not necessarily. Maybe! Check out Marty's phasing page HERE for an explanation of why it's necessary to phase transformers for train control.

You can even share a common return with an isolated DC source - like a car battery.

Rob, What you have above is exactly what I thought should be and how I planned to wire. What you brought up to me is the G06 code on the CW 80. I will look to see where this code is and then code. Maybe that is the trouble?  I just can't understand why I'm getting a voltage reading with only one transformer plugged in and also with the two blacks ( Commons ) connected the CW 80 blinks as a short. I will get back to you on the code and again thank you so much.

The code is on the bottom, a G followed by. three date numbers 

Ok first thank you to all. On the bottom is G0309. What does this tell you?

The instruction in the manual say to wire the red to the middle rail and black to the outer. That is how I have always wired it. Even with the gateman on the accessory side of the CW and the track on throttle side. I'm guessing mine could be an older one? If so what are options or solutions?