Lionel Transformer Sine Wave Video

I agree, this is very interesting and full of good information.  I enjoyed it. Clear why modern units run better on modern power supplies, too.

 

Does anyone know if the Z4000 produces output power the same way?

 

That said, as an EE and power engineer, I have learned to appreciate pure sine wave power.  I kept thinking about the high-frequencies being created and the spectrum of the power flowing into the track.  Obviously Lionel locos are designed to disregard harmonics, etc.  I guess other brands are too as I've never had a problem with Lionel or MTh locos running on either CW-80 or Z4000 power.  

Well there you have it! The CW-80 is the best transformer for your Lionel trains.

Very informative video. Thanks Mike! I had never considered putting my ZW-C onto the layout with its 4 bricks. I was just planning on the 4 bricks. That plan is probably going to change.

Ron

This is one of the best videos that Mike has produced. He makes the complicated, very easy to understand and also the demonstrations that he shows is very telling. If you are running the modern LIONEL locomotives on postwar transformers, this is a must see for you.

 

I am so thankful that Mike and his crew does such a fabulous job at LIONEL.

so does a brick without a cpu have a chopped sine wave? or should all bricks go through a tpc?

The brick itself puts out a pure sine wave. All it is is a transformer and circuit protecting circuit.

 

Dale H

The bricks put out a pure sine wave.  Put them in back of a ZW-C or TPC300/400 and you get the chopped wave which is the best for modern engines along with the TMCC/Legacy control.

A must view!  Very informative.

 

How many threads in the past have there been talk about how bad chopped sine wave power was???

 

Jim

I'm gonna take some flak for this, but this is a fairly misleading demonstration without the use of an oscilloscope.  Throttling back the CW to match the indicated voltage of the 1033 is a virtual "smoke & mirrors" trick to discount the entire field of postwar transformers.

 

The scope would show the voltage of the CW still at 18.8-19 volts while the meter showed Mike's 15+ volts, and the 1033 is at its peak output at 15.5 volts under a light load.  The comparison should have been done with an LW transformer(the closest, output-wise, to the CW of any postwar transformer - 125 watts input - 75 watts/5 amps output) set to 19 volts to match the true voltage of the CW.

 

 

I think the discussion of this transformer was of interest:

 

Interesting video. Well done Mike!
I think I will install a chopped wave chip in my car. It may smoke more, and I might lose my trailer when the rear coupler opens, but I bet it will go faster.
TJ

I use two Powerhouse 180 bricks and only run in command mode. I only power both bricks if running a lot of engines.  I am a huge fan of smoke.

My understanding from the video is if I add a TPC 400 to the mix I will see increased smoke output at slower speeds.

Before I go out and buy a TPC can someone with a better understanding of the video tell me if I am correct? I have no need of the TPC for varying power because I only run command mode. Your knowledge sharing on this would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff,

If my understanding is correct, you won't see much, if any, difference if you are using full power to the track, as the sine wave would be the same at this level. However, using a TPC would bring you quite a few other benefits.  You'd gain a valuable extra level of circuit protection, and be able to lower the track voltage (if desired) without loosing smoke/coupler/performance functionality. You would also then be able to run conventionally using your remote at any time you wish, and be able to turn track power on and off from the remote too.  There are also quite a few other benefits of using a TPC. Have a look at the TPC manual on Lionel's website for the full details.

I use TPC 300 units with 2 x 150w transformers powering them. Like you, I normally only run with one transformer switched on most of the time, but the other is ready as a standby in case of failure or the need for more power at any time.

Thanks Nicole. I will read more on the TPC as you suggest.

I concur with Nicole Jeff, I run command and especially in the case of your 2 180w bricks, I lowered my track voltage to 15.5v via the tpc and it eliminated the "arc welding" that commonly occurs during a derailment with 2 bricks going to the track. additionally a tpc runs MTH locomotives in conventional mode very well,even fires the coupler. Even though not ideal because of the lower starting voltage of a conventional loco it is possible to run  a conventional loco,and a command loco on the same track at the same time. A couple of keystrokes allows you to "toggle" between varying track voltage for the conventional loco or addressing the command loco. 

For some reason I couldn't get the video to work and a CW-80 and my MTH engines were not compatible.

 I tried the CW-80 on both conventional MTH engines and PS1 and PS2. Spurotic (can't spell that one)operation on all MTH.  Worked great on Lionel and KLine.  No more CW-80 for me.  Oh, by the way my old KW operated all my engines just fine.

 

Bud

It is great that Mike is doing these videos.  Education is key.

 

Dave

Mth lists "compatible transformers" for their locomotives in the back of the owners manuals. A CW 80 is NOT on these lists.

I am curious to know if Mr. Reagan is using a meter capable of reading RMS voltages, or just a "regular" multimeter.

 

Bob Nelson, electronics guru on the CTT forum, says an RMS capable meter is needed to read the true output of the CW-80.  I'm guessing due to the chopped sine wave.  He put up a CW-80 correction table that shows when a multimeter is reading 15.5 volts the RMS volts are 18.2.  I'd like to hear what Dale H. or any other OGR forum electronics wizards have to say about this.

 

Pete