Midwestern Modelworks - surpasses all models to date!

Thanks for posting the above, looks like a nail in the coffin for the 'competition' once Erik gets these to the marketplace, I have thought for some time how poor OMi stuff is detailed in relation to the retail pricing, looks like he's got a winner here, 'specially as it incorporates his bullet proof drive, I should of course declare that I have ordered some of his new diesels, can't wait to take delivery.  

The whole project looks awesome.  I'm sure everyone the gets one, or more, of these models will be glad they did.  The rest of us will be left to ponder what could have been.

 

Jay

It makes no difference to me but it does to some.  Will these be tank drives?

 

Jay

What will be nice is that the truck reseach will also apply to the SD40-2s.

Stephen

Jay, good question. Some do seem to have strong views...  

 

It isn't a tank drive. It seems pretty slick with built in gearbox oil pump etc. High quality approach but of course priced accordingly i.e. out of my league! 

 

 

 

HTH

 

Pete

Thanks Pete.

 

Guess if I'd dug a little deeper I might have found that info.  Yep, he does really nice work.

 

Jay

after talking to him at the March meet and seeing his unbelievable drive system work, these locomotives will be a must have for us 2 railers.

Very nice website.  Only one thing missing - price for these mechanisms.  The website does not say they are in production, but does have a customer comment.

 

So, are they in production, and if so, what is the price?

I believe Erik Stott is the owner of Midwestern. You could perhaps try asking him those excellent questions.

 

HTH

 

Pete 

I believe his previous drive system with the best gear materials was pushing 1K for a 6 axel unit,obiviously with this SD45 project cost is no object to producing the most accurately detailed diesel yet! if the project gets to the final pricing stage it will be interesting to see if enough buyers come forward to support this endeavor, bear in mind this is a truly custom built to order model [seriously expensive models] and you need at least a pair of any of the more modern diesels.JMO

No - if he is to be a viable supplier, and not simply a custom builder, he will need to specify price and delivery.  He has every right to be a custom builder, but the way he is being presented, it is as a supplier of O Scale Diesel mechanisms.

 

That is opinion - he is free to do it any way he wants.

Each time I have spoken to Erik he says that he's planning to be a supplier of complete locomotives. His website comes across that way to me also. One of the many innovations he's developing is a US-made drive. The way I understand it he has supplied (I do not know under what terms) his drive to one or more customers for field testing in real (model) world conditions. I hope that Americans will feel that the US-made drive is a Good Thing. I certainly appreciate the quality.

 

I expect that he will wait until he knows what his true costs are before announcing his prices. If I wanted to know if that is in fact to be the case, I would contact Erik and ask him.

 

Opinion.   

 

Pete (A Brit resident in Canada who likes American engineering)   

Eric has been doing custom drives for a number of years now, I first saw his drives at the 2008 Chicago O scale meet and he has been displaying at the main O scale meets since,what he is showing now is the newest version of his drive.Actually doing these highly detailed trucks is a smart move even if the full models are not produced he will be able to market his drives with the upscale truck castings. JMO

Interesting, thank you hibar. I have seen those drives iterate towards perfection at several Chicago meets but wasn't aware that he'd been selling them as a stand-alone offering. I would love to use them in my locos but I only have 4-axle units. Plus I think I would go for coreless motors now that DCC has matured to run them efficiently if that's an option. I'll ask Erik!    

 

Pete

 

 

 

Erik does not sell his superior drive direct to the modeling community. He does custom drive retro fit base on each brass model and the changes needed to that model to fit that drive and anything extra the modeler would like done. Therefore every model is unique and prices are charged as to amount of work to make those changes.

The side frames shown above is the 3D artwork and finial step to produce the SD45s.

The brass builder has his drive and is building the body to fit the drive. My understanding that a sample is near completion. In the next three months pricing and production could be near the production stage. The brass bodies will be made in Korea and shipped to Erik where finial assembly will be done with his drive. Some of the feature will be rotating fans that will adjust speed like the real thing, Headlights with the reflector lining like the actual headlight, Step and other under walkway lighting. Cab interior, accurately model EMD side frames with the drive using actual scale traction motor gear boxes, etc. Pricing has been mentioned in the $2500 to $3200 range. OMI models for the UP SD70Ace with step light was $2800. The MMW model should be a bargain with all the extras to those who wish to purchase an accurate SD45.

I do not see any brass importer who will come close to such fidelity as Erik’s very soon coming model.

Stephen

Looking at the brass ones shown above and the example also shown to be much better. I would think there is a opportunity to make these fine detailed  side frames that could be designed to replace the ones on Atlas and MTH engines. Ones that could just snap on as the manufactured ones do. 

 

 Regarding questions about models, I spent almost an hour with Erik at Chicago 2013 discussing in detail his drives and lighting solutions in development. In particular how they would work best for DCC users such as I. Got some hands-on testing as well. I was impressed.  

 

I then followed up for half-an-hour on the latest developments at Chicago 2015, this time with my friend Nick from England who is a customer of Erik's and was manning the MMW booth in Erik's absence. I did not discuss availability or pricing with Nick as I would reserve those questions for Erik.

 

It seems to me that Erik can choose to advertise or not his custom building and not be breaching business regulations. The way that his site comes across to me is that he's planning to offer a complete locomotive using his drive and proven off-shore builders to do the "hard to do economically in the US" elements. 

 

He talks about research of modelling and of customer interest and potential demand. He issues updates from time to time keeping interested parties informed of progress. To me that seems reasonable knowing what we all know about the vagaries of the brass business - see Pecos John's "Crapola from the Cupola" series in another place, and Scott Mann's updates. Several brass manufacturers seem to have a similar approach and they all had to start somewhere.  Opinion.

 

Overall, I guess I'm trying to say that I appreciate great modelling and engineering, and I recognize that getting into the brass business is a high-risk affair that needs time and money to get off the ground. I like to encourage anyone who has the guts to try it while asking all I can about the models. I prefer to keep any input about business operating practices that aren't already in the public domain between me and the business owners. 

 

Opinion.

 

Pete

 

      

  

The 3D rendition of the Flexicoil truck frames is quite remarkable but how to reproduce them will be the problem.  Doing them by the lost wax method will be very difficult.  I doubt they can be done in one piece.  Probably a candidate for die cast.  Even the beautiful sideframe castings for the CLW PA were distorted and needed to be straightened and the bolster was a separate casting.  Axle spacing on a Diesel is not as critical as tolerances on a steam engine where the distances between pedestal jaws must be deadnuts accurate.  Siderods will not work unless the axle spacing is precise.  Ambitious project to say the least.

I believe Eric did 4 axel diesels also for customers,pricing was determined by the amount of work involved needless to say it was 500/600+ as I recall back in 2008.Bear in mind if you owned a couple of Overland diesels from the earlier runs with the poor drives you could be investing as much in a new drive as you had spent on the engines. Stu Kleinshmidt was the go to guy back then and he was booked solid so the opportunity was there for Eric.

Thanks for the info hibar. I do have 2 brass 4-axle locos that would benefit from Erik's drives for sure. Now I just have to start saving...    

 

Pete

$2700 for a SDP45........whoa

At least,the longer it takes to get to the deposit stage the higher the pricing will probably be.JMO

 

But in my opinion, questions about business practices should be addressed to business management in private. 

 

Interesting idea.  In my opinion, such questions are fair game, when a business holds itself out to the public.

$2700 USD for any hand built brass model today is not out of line. Europeans are paying 2-3 times that for their models. I would like to say $2700 is very reasonable for these models. If that is too much for a buyer he or she will pass. These models like some others are simply not meant for the mainstream market. I hope he gets them done; they will be wonderful. 

 

You go Erik! 

I for one am glad to see the bar being raised to the next level.  Though I'm not a 2 railer nor can I at the present time afford such a model, I'm happy to see that equipment of this caliber is being planned and in the process of being produced.

 

If your happy with the run of the mill products you have today then so be it.

But don't try to take down someone who is implementing the latest technologies to produce a finer model. 

 

These models may not be necessarily for everyone due to affordability or level of detail.  But for those who would desire such a model, they will be the benefactors of this gentleman's diligent work.

 

For those of you who are non technical and can not easily understand what it takes to simply produce a single simple component should refrain from all comment.  

 

The amount of engineering that is needed to pull off what Stephen is trying to do is incredible.  It is extremely time-consuming and costly.

 

I for one am eager to see just how it turns out and wish him much success.

As an individual unrelated to Stephen in any way, am happy to support anyone who desires to advance the hobby whether I'm a direct beneficiary or not. 

 

The great innovators who we all have benefited from started just as Stephen is doing today, taking small steps forward and sometimes taking a few backward. 

But all the while advancing the state of the art to its next evolutionary state.

All of this fanfare that is posted of shared enthusiasm of products talked about does reel in the viewers on OGR's website. It is a venue for us to share but also its content that brings in the new potential customer for OGR. I provide photography that often surpasses anything in print on this forum for free; I enjoy sharing 2 rail and its merits with the model railroad hobby. OGR is the largest and most diverse O gauge/scale community online today. I am reaching 3 rail scale guys that may have otherwise chosen to stay in 3 rail or left O altogether for HO or the like. I hope I helped keep an O scaler in O scale and talked another 3 rail tin plate guy into scale 2 rail. Just my opinions. Now that you and I derailed this thread let's have fun in our favorite hobby.

Well, I am a major contributor to this thread.  I have said several times that I am impressed with Erik's work.  I have seen his prototype gear boxes, and they were works of art. He is truly an artist/machinist.

That was eight years ago.  His web site is beautiful - his locomotive looks real!

 

I am, like Erik L., enthusiastic about $2700 Diesel locomotive models that are nearly perfect in all respects.  Unfortunately, the $2700 figure is conjecture. Delivery dates are not even being guessed at.

 

Opinion.

The mechanism is no longer  'under development', Erik is producing them on a $100k Haas  mill in between his day job which is running a dedicated machine shop: amongst other tasks he produces EMD starter motor brackets for the real thing. I do not know where the figure for 7 years was plucked from, sure he has offered a product for the last 7 years, so does any manufacturer. Most companies say in the small print, 'reserve the right to alter specification'. If a product can be improved do you not want the improved version? Following the dubious logic of some posters you would all still be driving model T Fords. Through the same illogical deductions one could call the Porsche 911 in it's various incarnations a 50 year project. The SD45 diesel model project was initially beset by several difficulties, a major one was actually getting the drawings of the trucks and traction motors from EMD, I know from conversations with him there were some other major issues that I will not elaborate on. I am happy to buy in to a project driven by a perfectionist.  The SD45 project has not been a 7 year project, to my personal knowledge it is about 3-4 years, Erik was only satisfied once he had achieved the quiet drive that he had developed.  

 

** FACT **

Oh I am not complaining about the cost....Just that I have three teens and a pre teen that come first and that I dont have funds to buy an EL SDP45.  Twenty some years ago I had two EL SDP45's custom built for me that were in HO scale and wish I had kept them.

I spoke to Erik at the recent Chicago March Meet & to the extent I still remember our conversation, he mentioned that one of the reasons for the delay was in getting the traction motor details from EMD. He had gathered all other relevant information / drawings on the prototype but EMD was unwilling to release the details on the traction motor. I am not sure if there are some proprietary intellectual property issues in releasing that information. I asked him if this detail was worth the delay & he said that with Kohs raising the bar with accurate details also at the bottom of their models he had to do the same since he was committed to producing a great model.

Erik also told me that he never intended to promote the models at first. He was just building his website with the models he was planning on producing & someone found it & started promoting it.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

I would tend to agree, the drives are one thing a fully finished model quite another especially a more modern diesel, not necessarly the most popular one. This is a very small target group willing to deposit and wait out delivery and as we have seen on previous models the importer gets a lot of heat when delivery times strech out too far. The pricing is probably in line with the product today but I believe the word bargain or what the people pay in Europe for models has no relevance here. A bargain for most interested O scalers is the Sunset FTs versus the Key FTs[not a knock on the Key units but great to have this kind of choice if this is a model you want] I do not believe anyone posting on this site is an "official" spokesperson for MMW

OK...I got several "alerts" and spent too much time editing and deleting to get this thread back on track.  PLEASE limit the comments to the O.P.'s original intention.  This is simply an enthusiastic post to an upcoming product to let the community know.  When and if Erik decides to promote his products here, I will be in touch with him....

 

Alan

If his locos are anything like his gearboxes they will be well worth the wait. To me the quality he is putting out is a bargain. You use to buy a car in the late 60's for 3000-3500 now a car is 30,000+. A us hobbies was 300+ so same percent markup as cars should be 3000+. The quality is excellent if you havent seen his work, its worth waiting another 7 years. I'm just happy i'm young enough i will be able to wait the time if needed.

There is a sister site sort of. ecsfabrication.com with pictures of the diesel drive but these pictures are of an older version of the drive system. much like windows before XP.  Still the pictures gives one an idea of the system and you can get an idea of the quality.  

 

Larry

Thanks for posting the latest images Stephen! These will be worth the wait!

John

I met Erik this past winter from his magazine ad. I have found communicating with him by email about any concern I have is always pleasant and informative to say the least. I'm sure others have experienced the same. I was another one who had the opportunity to talk with him and have him walk me through his display items at the March Meet this year. After that I was a believer as if I wasn't already one.
 
I would encourage anyone with a serious interest in the subjects on this thread to get personally acquainted with Erik if you haven't already done so, and if you're wondering about something or have questions, take them directly to Erik. He has the best interests of the hobby and the individual modeler at heart. He has answered countless questions for me, and always finally emphasizes that it is my job to decide about what I really want to do in the end. I trust his purposes and respect his skills and experience.

On some occasions I have consulted with him concerning some challenging modeling decisions I had to make, and he has guided me in the direction that was right for me, even when it resulted in the loss of some business for him. He has expressed to me that he knows his own long term interests are best served if modelers are happy with the hobby overall rather than making a buck in the here and now. His unbiased viewpoint along with his commitment to this hobby is refreshing. Similar to what others have expressed, I am confident MMW is going to make available quite possibly the finest O scale diesel locomotive models seen up to this point in time, and I am happy to be among those who will own several. Ever since I first started talking to Erik and reading his website, I have been saving my nickels and dimes.

 

Others have said it, now I will say it, they will be worth the wait.

 

Thayne   

I had an opportunity to speak with Eric at Midwestern Model Works over the weekend and thought I'd pass this along to those who are interested. I asked Eric how the SD45 project is progressing and he had some pretty exciting news! Eric had just received confirmation from their builder that all the dimensional data and everything looked good and they are ready to move forward. He has asked the builder to review all the data one last time though to be certain everything is accounted for.

 

He said the builder is the same as the builder responsible for designing approximately seventy five percent of Kohs Challenger, so their will be no issues with quality and the models will no doubt be amongst the finest ever produced. Eric went on to state he fully expects to have a pilot model from the builder on MMW's table next year in Chicago at the March Meet!

 

I also asked about pricing and when MMW might begin asking for the first reservation installment. He stated he didn't have the final costs nailed down enough to state yet but will soon, however he did say he doesn't expect these models to be much more than the msrp for Overland's latest SD70ACe. Eric said things are looking very good and anticipates to begin requesting first installments in two to four weeks, and that the first installment will be about 35 percent of the total cost of each model reserved.

 

John 

Though it's out of my era, I'd really be interested in one of the SD45s in the blue "demo" paint scheme.

 

I'll defer to a real EMD guy like Hot Water but IIRC the demos have the L shaped windshields as well as some other unique items.

 

Looking at them always made me wish I was there back then and that they'd "toss me the reverser handle and tell me to take 'er for a spin" 

Dave you bring to the table the fact that we all have our personal view what the best is. And to many likely far more than us feel the way you do.

Good point


I hope we see these models. At this point anything being produced is a gift we should all cherish. The good old days are right now.