Midwestern Modelworks - surpasses all models to date!

Why would I order a 2 rail model, I am a 3 rail scale person, now if they were offered in 3 rail I might be in for one maybe 2. You attack my character as though I am out to get you. I am stating a simple fact that you dont have a finished model so you cant say "Midwestern Models - surpasses all models to date" it is misleading.

Matt,

 

Ignore him!  All in the know do!!

 

Jay

All in the "Think they Know" Will be eating crow soon enough. You surely will be choking on it. I can't wait!

Stephen

 "surpass all other models to date" 

 

  I don't know, those Z scale locos are pretty impressive. Anyone can build a big loco but those teeny-tiny jobs must be really hard? .......DaveB

We did all this pages ago.  Let him have the title.  If it comes to fruition, so much the better.  He is passionate, and we are spectators.

 

Actually, three grand for the definitive model might not be too bad.  I have seen dirt bag tank cars sell for a quarter of that.  It was not so long ago that a Max Gray AC-4 sold for four grand.

 

So somebody tell us what a reservation costs?

Deposits are $950 each.  Erik just emailed me he hopes to have a pilot model at the Chicago meet next April.  He hopes to have final delivery less than a year from that time.

Well, with the struggles of OMI in the O scale arena that a hefty deposit for a company with no track record. My fear would be a $950 loss.

Given that no model has actually been produced or seen as yet, it's hard to surpass anything - hopefully we'll see something that supports that declaration in April 2016.

Matt :

As I said, go to the Indy show and see firsthand the bases (Erik's innovative drive) of the SD45's and what he has accomplished.

I also would note that with you not into 2-rail model trains, and only interested in 3-rail toy trains, why are you even concerned with MMW models and the progress that he has show at the shows? Yes there is a difference between a model and a toy.

Maybe if you would come over to the 2-rail side you could appreciate a real model train instead of mth handrails on a stick, kit bashed modern diesels of different prototypes. that never existed. Live a little and GO 2-RAIL and enjoy the finer things in life.

Stephen

mwb: The SD45s are on their way to being produced as has the drive and 3D model drawings are done. So yes, part of the coming model has been produced. As for the "surpass all ther models to date"- as Erik's continued model progresses as it is, yes the SD45 will be "The model to Surpass to Date" Stephen

They are just Model trains boys.

OK kids....I got several alerts and had to take time away from doing my important job of keeping this forum FREE...it is not easy.  I deleted and edited all I am going to so the next time references are made to putting down folks and other inappropriate comments, the whole thread is going to be locked.

 

Alan

The drive is not in question at all.....  As for the rest, I'm waiting to see something of more substance that drawings, hopefully in Chicago. 

Is there a website with pictures of this or anything?  While I'm not a 2-rail guy I'd love to see this drive and stuff people are talking about.  

 

Sorry AdMan, I got distracted from my point and started talking smack, I apologize.. The website does show the drive under "Features" then under "Drive" It looks like a well made drive with crazy machined gear boxes and transfer cases. Perfect for the application however it does look like the motor could use some rear support

I believe Overland has quit the brass import business in all scales now as the margins they need to have for a full time business are above what a sufficient market will pay. Individual part time importers can bring in very limited quantities of models at the current "state of the art" to a select market at a very small margin. A start up like MMW may be willing to price very close to cost to just get started.JMO 

" Individual part time importers can bring in very limited quantities of models at the current "state of the art" to a select market at a very small margin. A start up like MMW may be willing to price very close to cost to just get started.JMO"

 

    From what I've seen these ultra high end products are mostly bought by insecure guys(women don't seem to solve their problems this way) with lots of money so the cost is not a factor.As long as there are enough of the 1% interested  the profit margins can still be fine.The key is making them think they have to have it......DaveB 

Good bern, I mean burn, DaveB......

I don't think they are necessarily insecure.  They have bucks, and are interested in the finer things in life, and they are entitled to their hobby just as we doorstop collectors are entitled to ours.  The question is, are there enough wealthy, discerning O Scale modelers who love FP 45s or whatever this thing is to be, to support this endeavor?  History says no, but we shall see.

Maybe you should lock it anyway? It's not like there's anything here other than:

• Declarations that a model that doesn't fully exist yet is going to be the best thing ever
• People arguing that such a declaration can't be made as the model doesn't actually exist as a finished product
• And then back and forth childish banter

Sure doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything for anyone at this point...

Exactly and the occasional web buy at a very high price does not mean there are. sufficient buyers out there to support a production run. The late Mr Sofue built very small quantities of particular models for a discerning clientele, current importers are dealing with small Korean craftsman shops who have a very substantial up front price to take on a project. This base price may only yield a small number of models based on the complexity of the project.JMO

And some people buy performance or vintage cars and others planes or boats or fancy golf clubs and course memberships and others pay silly amounts of money for professional sports tickets or to go gambling. 

 

It is our individual choice what we spend our money on and this is mine.  The insecure people are those who have an issue with what others do with theirs.

I'm subbed to see the outcome of this, and wish the builder luck and hope it is a successful project.  These types of things are becoming rarer in our hobby as time passes, and if anyone is willing to strike something up I'm all for it to keep the hobby alive. 

 

My only .02 is the model choice for the project is not a good one.  In a modern type diesel the ES44 would have been the best choice for now, as it has not been done and there is already a larger market for it vs and SD45 as seen in multiple threads on this forum.  That would have been my pilot program to test the waters, then take it from there.

I am a huge supporter of the small buisness man and love the underdog and the American dream. I think its awesome that he's ambitious enough to start up a model train company. Its a known fact in business that the first time is always the hardest. If I were starting up a company I would want my products to be available to as many people as possible and I would want to sell as many as possible making a much more economically viable venture. His models have a lot of promise at a great price point but I think he is doing himself a huge dis-service buy not adapting his drive to be three rail and producing 3 rail models as well. The market is much bigger and there are a great many people who are three rail guys who would love to buy some of these models, myself included.

Not everything in O Scale needs to be available in 3 rail form, nor should it be.  To some, the compromises that need to be made to allow a model to operate on 3 rail track are unacceptable.

 

Opinion.

 

       
       


And a very good opinion indeedy

As Erik has agreed with ecd15-Bob, 3-rail would not be a option.

Kohs and Key know that when models are hand built that the quality goes down after 100 to 125 pieces due to the fatigue and repetition of the workers. Besides 3-railers do not seem to be interested in super fine detailed brass locomotives.  Brass models imported lately have seen an increase is reservations and I do not believe they will be going away any time soon.

Erik, what do you see in the brass market?

Stephen

I am not speaking from you labor of love point of view I am speaking from a buisness point of view. nobody does something for nothing and the moe something you sell the more money you make and thus making it easier for you to make another.

This afternoon Erik has posted some new pictures with explanations on his site under the General News tab. Worth checking out.

Thayne Logan

Pretty cool!
(C)photo by Midwestern model Works

In all cases were talking about a model with no command control electronics.

 

Making a 3-rail model would be an expensive proposition in this case for the potential number of models folks would be buying.  The entire truck assembly would have to be redesigned to push the sideframes out 1/4+" to install the 3-rail wheels. 

 

If you want the existing model to work with 3-rail that is an inexpensive and simple change for the owner to make, much less inexpensive for an importer that has to deal with a builder who will want more money than it is worth for the relatively minor changes required. 

 

Take a look at any recent 3rd Rail diesels and you'll see what it takes.  Just a simple roller assembly and mount and AC to DC converter.

I think that sort of defines just how far away from the average O scale modeler this all really exists - ~$9k is contemplated above.  I am impressed at the amount of conversation and discussion about models that few will own or even afford to own. 

 

Hopefully, this will all come together and something will get delivered that we will all get to see photos of at some point in the future.

I'm assuming that these are all proto 48 models, right?

 

Jeff C

Lionel should do a "vision line" SD40 in 3 rail with this level of detail and mechanics for the "high rail set".

       
       


Very good point- I'm sure after all this fan fare and fluff it's still "O5W" with P48 as an option. (?)

2 rail "O5W" limits the market to about 50-75 models- P48 is about 2-3 as a Wild guess rough estimate  (Sadly)

Optional.  They are available as .145 and .115 OW5 and P48.  Same cost.

I remains to be seen how good the new Lionel SD40 will be.  I actually have pretty high hopes.

Well now...

 

If they aren't gauged correctly then perhaps they are toys after all.

 

Really, kids, all model trains are toys. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it would be fantastic if this model is produced, and I certainly admire the chutzpah of those who are willing to plop down a deposit to get one.

 

 

The more product available the better it is for the hobby--and when looking at it that way I'd be happy to see 3-rail versions of this model produced if it helped to ensure that this model was made (and was a successful project for the manufacturer), especially when the safe care, proper feeding, and good moral character of my $950.00 deposit was at stake.

 

Jeff C

"2 rail "O5W" limits the market to about 50-75 models- P48 is about 2-3 as a Wild guess rough estimate"  

 

  All you have to do to fix that is make sure the guys with tons of money know that O gauge is incorrect. Most of this ultra high end stuff never gets run so you could probably put P48 wheels on them and most would never know the difference :> .........DaveB