@NYC 428 posted:Very interesting, I have not found anything I wanted to purchase from MTH in the last 6 catalogs anyway.
Sad though.
This has been one of the problems for MTH, I suspect.
The new MTH catalogs look like "Dead Product Walking". 
If Mike parcels out S gauge and American Models picks it up, I could go back to S gauge. I'm dumbfounded. As a 16 year old boy, American Flyer left the market. That was the end of trains for me. Then I saw Mike's awesome scale locomotives in 1997 and I went into O gauge. I have the Lionel Legacy system and 2 locomotives. However, my last 2 Lionel locomotive purchases had built in (engineered) flaws and recent Lionel products are exorbitantly priced.
Midge's Train House.
@Oman posted:If Mike parcels out S gauge and American Models picks it up, I could go back to S gauge. I'm dumbfounded. As a 16 year old boy, American Flyer left the market. That was the end of trains for me. Then I saw Mike's awesome scale locomotives in 1997 and I went into O gauge. I have the Lionel Legacy system and 2 locomotives. However, my last 2 Lionel locomotive purchases had built in (engineered) flaws and recent Lionel products are exorbitantly priced.
They all have issues...
There's a difference between retiring (us normal folks) and selling a business. It doesn't make sense to me. If the employees are going to buy him out (or anyone else); he's already devalued the worth of the company with this announcement.
Is anyone going to order from the last catalog? Not me!
@Rich883 posted:Weaver was only a fraction of the size of MTH, like 5%, pretty easy to walk away from that. MTH is much larger, seems there would be interest at the right price.
That's probably part of the problem. Scott Mann buying ERR is one thing (for example); someone making a large investment for an entire toy train company in today's market is quite another - a much tougher sell.
If anything, it makes sense that MTH will be divided piecemeal, with the train manufacturing portion least likely to survive. Just IMHO. Noone really knows what the current market is, although Lionel keeps saying that each year is their best year yet (at least in recent years). Wouldn't be a complete shock if they jump on part of the carcass is the price is right.
It is a sad day for the hobby. Thank you Mike for all you have done for the hobby and all the innovation. It was nice to see an owner with such a passion for the hobby make it exciting. You will be missed. I hope you find a buyer to keep what you built around for another 40 years.
Thank you,
As someone who retired last year after 43 years in my field, I wish Mike all the best in retirement.
As a customer who prefers MTH, I am disappointed there isn't a plan in the announcement for the DCS system and replacement parts. Hopefully someone will come forward to carry that on. Otherwise, if an engine of mine fails I can put in ERR. If the TIU fails sometime down the road, and I can't get it repaired, I guess I will have to go back to conventional.
At least I did not want anything from the newest catalog.
Thank you Mike Wolf for everything.
Truly the end of an era. But with that said, Enjoy retirement Mike, you've earned it!
@Randy T posted:I am just floored by this news. I hope the employees can buy the company and keep it alive.
Mike thanks for all the wonderful products you have produced over the years.
I still have about 26 rolling stock on order. I love military flat cars and grain cars. VBG
I just saw the news about a half hour ago. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. It’s sort of weird that I just got a PS3 loco back from an MTH independent tech in the mail today. I also hope the company can be kept intact and sold to some reputable individual. Competition is good for business.
As many others have said, something just doesn't add up here.
I hope Mike is ok.
I hope MTH continues in some form if for no other reason than to keep Lionel from having a monopoly.
I have many things to say and can't find the words yet.
#1 is to thank Mike Wolf for the great work he has done and to wish him the very best in retirement. I'm reading everyone else's comments to guide my reply.
I'm just stunned right now. I really like MTH products and will find a way to proceed.
Sad to see this happen, I can already hear Lionel the Lions stomach growling, they're gonna pounce on MTH and buy a lot/ or at least any tooling they can get their paws on.
News bombshell for sure. Mike, enjoy retirement you earned it. If by chance the train line continues that would be a plus. If I read right the parts will carry on. Hopefully in one way or another either someone will buy the whole businees or a number of people will buy certain aspects of it. But foremost thank you Mike for a great 40 year ride........Paul 2
It will be interesting. Less competition for Lionel is really bad news for O.
From Landsteiner: "I wonder if Mike and a group of his employees will work out a deal where they continue to operate the company and he and his heirs receive a cut of any profits forever, rather than an employee purchase of the company with a capital investment. Many have said that cash flow is a significant issue in this and similar cottage industries. Apparently no one outside the company is willing to make a capital investment of a size commensurate with their annual sales. But this insider scenario could be best for the hobby, the company, and maybe in the long run for its founder and his heirs. I'd guess he would have preferred someone to come up with tens of millions to buy him out (if he is, as is apparently the case, a sole proprietor). For reasons others have mentioned, it hasn't happened.
It ain't over till it's over."
To me, this seems to be a very accurate assessment of the situation at hand. 
It's not over. There's going to be some real play in the industry in the next 10 months or so. Hang on for the ride.... 
What concerns me - and hasn't really been mentioned here as far as I can see - is the effect this will have on LHS across the country. The loss of MTH may well have a terrible consequences for our hobby retailers. Product in the new catalog may not sell well. (Who knows?) But the value of existing MTH inventory certainly will decline.
And, that is sad. 
@shawn posted:They all have issues...
No! These were 2 significant issues. The first was a locomotive that did not have TRUE Legacy. No way would I be able to double head this locomotive with my other Legacy locomotive. Lionel admitted their error and took it back. The second was a locomotive that Lionel said could only be repaired in China. Well, I missed the memo and the boat. Again, Lionel took it back and refunded me. But, I still do not have these models that I wanted.
Anyway, Lionel prices have gone through the roof. Too much for me. To give context to my statements, I only buy Lionel Legacy and MTH premier.
Stunning news - what a year 2020!
Let's all pause, take a moment and think about the retailers who have built a career, life , business with MTH. We have lost so much already! Good luck to Mike ! A sad day for all of the MTH fans, of which I am one !
!!! Could this be like the recent Mr. Peanut commercial, they "killed" him in a car crash, only to be reborn during the Super Bowl , and reign again! Hey, you never know ! Could be a marketing scheme. Let the conspiracies begin......
Wow, I knew change was coming, but I am stunned that it is starting now.
MTH had a great run, Mike turned the O Gauge world upside down with higher quality, more affordable trains, great smoke units, and a new digital command control system...DCS. MTH produced many many types of Locomotives that no one else made, and painted them in many liveries that were overlooked in the past.
I thought Mike was great, every time I went to York, Mike was manning the booth, shaking hands, answering questions, receiving suggestions, and complaints, Mike was always there. I admire that dedication to his business, the hobby, and us hobbyists.
I hope MTH continues on with Mike’s underlings running the show.
And most of all I hope Mike enjoys a well deserved retirement.
Thanks Mike Wolf, it’s been a great ride.
I got into 3 rail over 20 years ago because of Mike's offerings. I still have that first loco, a PRR consolidation and later added 3 more MTH engines . My first layout was based on a design shown in his catalog as I recall. I am shocked by the news. Lots of info to follow I imagine. I just hope he is well and enjoys his retirement. Quite a business man and mega force in our hobby.
I'm dumbfounded. I got into the hobby the same time DCS came out. Been a MTH guy ever since. Met Mike at Leesburg Hobbies and chatted with him at York. Though small in stature he was larger than life to me. I loved that he was a Marylander like me and headquartered in Columbia near one of my jobs. I wish him the best in retirement though I'm concerned about the future of his products. Now that I've moved to a larger home I had planned to make a bigger better Harpers Ferry layout with Atlas track and DCS. Now I am unsure. Since I've bought nearly all my collection second hand the lack of new products may mean that market may tighten and prices rise. Oh well, life goes on. Guess I'll go to the basement and run some MTH trains.
If MTH train manufacturing goes away or Lionel is able to purchase it, the O gauge hobby will be negatively impacted due to lack of competition and higher prices. The effect on local hobby shops who sell MTH will also be adverse. As someone who has bought mostly MTH products, I'm sorry to see this. My very best wishes to Mike.
MELGAR
Ouch. This is gonna hurt for a while. Wish Mike the best.
This is a sad day for me, really took me by surprise!
I live in Queensland, Australia, and up to a couple of years ago, only had my Swiss-built "O" gauge 3rail Buco trains to keep me amused. Pretty ordinary loco's.....headlights, automatic reverse.....that's about it. Then I discovered MTH loco's.......PS1 and PS2, with all their incredible features, and I was hooked.
I guess I have been lucky because none of the 8 MTH Railking diesel loco's I have purchased brand new have given me an once of trouble (I just love that diesel sound when they start-up and accelerate, the crew/cab chatter, the automatic uncoupling....and those horns!!!!), and they run perfectly on my Buco brass 3 rail track, especially through the switches and crossings.
And not to mention the fantastic service I got from their spare parts division when dealing with "Midge" via E-mails. To start with, I thought it was a guy I was dealing with because she knew so much, and because it was long-distance and couldn't see her, I had no idea. I had some trouble with an MTH switch machine on a tight L/H turn-out I was using in my layout, and she went out of her way to get the replacement switch motor/s to me all the way down-under here in Australia.
I fell in love with the MTH brand (but also have some Lionel steamers and some Williams diesels I purchased over the years), and now run them alongside my 1950's Swiss Buco trains. I will miss MTH not being in the marketplace providing exceptional quality and features at affordable prices.
All the best in your retirement Mike, and all the best for the rest of the MTH team, especially my friend Midge.
Peter....Buco Australia.
MTH = Muffin's Train House? John
With MTH going out of business, what will become of the spare parts, Proto-Sound batteries, and replacement tires?
Depending upon your age and interest, one can easily trace the Lionel saga after Joshua Lionel Cowen gave up his toy train stewardship. Considering our current economic and social climate, so it will be for the MTH saga as Mike gives up his prominent position of toy train leadership, endless possibilities await.
Enjoy your forthcoming retirement Mike, well deserved...
I really feel for Mike, as I own my small business I know most owners have a large portion of their net worth tied up in operating capital, receivables, equipment, inventory and other. Even though the business may provide a more than good income, all your net worth is at risk every month. At some point, the risk may become more than the reward. Difficult choice, but peoples needs change as they grow older and (hopefully) wiser. I know mine have changed over the 25 years I have been in business. I wish you well Mike and hoping we will see you involved in some new way.
Sincerely,
Chris S.
A way for Menards to quickly pick up a way to produce engines, modern style track, and transformers to round out their product line?
Menards Train House (MTH)??
I think someone will end up with it, or a couple someones. This played out with Northwest Short Line when the owner decided to retire and close up shop if nobody took it over. All we can do is pray/hope for the best and enjoy what has been made if the company does indeed does totally go away. This happened in G scale with Aristocraft. While Bachmann has rights to the tooling thru their parent company Kader, most items have never returned to production such as the big diesels and steamers in G scale. Time to reflect and be thankful for what we do have. AD
Wow! I am totally shocked to hear this. I am a big MTH fan because when I got back into the hobby in the late 90’s all I had was PW. Then I saw MTH Premier scale engines and rolling stock and I was hooked on MTH ever since. Then a few years after I transitioned over to 2 rail MTH was once again right there with me.
Mike I wish you good luck in retirement but you will be missed. Thank you so much for offering locomotives in 2 rail. I really appreciate it and I have gotten a lot of enjoyment over the years with my scale wheeled locomotives.
I was not going to order anything in the latest catalog because there is nothing in there that I collect and needed but knowing this I am seriously considering changing my mind. MTH is the only company that makes 2 rail steam locomotives I can afford new. Atlas and Lionel doesn’t sell steam locomotives (in 2 rail) 3rd Rail steam is like $1600. I don’t care about electronics. If they blow up and there is no more DCS support I will just install DCC. This could be my last chance ever to buy a brand new steam locomotive in O scale.
Mike, if I win the lottery any time soon I am going to make you a very fair offer!
I'm shocked beyond belief! I'm greatly saddened by this announcement and the possibility that the MTH brand may be no more. MTH has been my favorite O gauge manufacturer by far, ever since re-entering the hobby 17 years ago. Actually it was MTH locomotives that brought me back into the hobby full tilt boogie! I own more of the MTH product line than all of the other manufactures combined. Knowing there would be a day when MTH would probably be sold upon Mikes's retirement, but I didn't think that the day would ever come when the possibility of the MTH brand would be no more. To me this is an extremely sad thought.
Mike Wolf thank you for all the wonderful innovations you have given all of us trainyacks over the decades. You have impacted this hobby with unbelievable imagination and innovation, bringing into reality exciting products which I could only dream about as a young kid in the 1950/60s. Thanks for the countless hours of pure fun and enjoyment your products have given me and countless others while in our train rooms over the many years. It's my hope that somehow someway the MTH brand will live on and thrive well into the future.
Mike I wish you well and hope you totally enjoy your well earned retirement.
MTH Electric Trains has provided me with hundreds of model locomotives and pieces of rolling stock that have given me and my family countless hours of enjoyment over 23 years. I have never met Mike Wolf but have admired him since becoming a customer. To me, he is the most innovative business man in O gauge trains since Joshua Lionel Cowen. In the early years of my return to the hobby, I was impressed with every scale-sized MTH model locomotive that I purchased, and I have continued to patronize his company for almost everything in my collection. For me, it’s difficult to imagine the hobby without MTH and Mike. I do hope that some way is found for MTH to continue as an independent O gauge manufacturer. I think that the future and health of the O gauge hobby will depend on it.
MELGAR
He is a great entrepreneur and person. It's bad for the hobby. No competition left.
I would guess this probably has a lot to do with the prospective economy over the next few years.
Mike. Thank you for all you did for the hobby. Enjoy your retirement you’ve earned it.
@Lionelski posted:A way for Menards to quickly pick up a way to produce engines, modern style track, and transformers to round out their product line?
Menards Train House (MTH)??
Interesting thought - and not impossible depending on how deep Menards' pockets are & Menards commitment to toy trains.
I don't see Menards buying/keeping the whole MTH line as Menards has an established "rolling stock" production capability not to mention excellent accessories. Locs would have to be the target.
If Menards produces locs with the tooling, my guess would be that DCS would be eliminated; there's no incentive that I can imagine to keep it.
I am, and will always be grateful, that he never wavered in his support for tinplate over all these decades. Also for developing the legendary Z-4000. Wishing him a well earned retirement and Godspeed, Mr. Wolf!
I knew this was going to happen soon. Mike had purchased a home in Florida. His company had not produced any new items in recent years. He will be age 60 this year. We both joined the TCA in 1977. I retired at age 60. I could move from the Northeast any time I desired.
First thing is first: Mike, you've done as much as anyone for the hobby and I know I am not alone in thanking you for all your hard work and devotion over the years. I simply cannot imagine where we would be if not for you. Not playing with tons of great trains, that's for sure. Wish you well in your retirement.
But wow. What a punch to the gut. I cannot imagine the hobby without Premier, RailKing, DCS, ProtoSound, all the great operating accessories...hopeful in that "bridge to the future" mentioned in the letter.
But if this is well and truly the end, I just want to comment in response to previous posters...if you think MTH equipment will now be worthless then I don't think you understand supply and demand. We have a hobby full of people who love to run and collect Mike's stuff. Now that MTH won't be making anymore stuff (we assume), the only options for getting MTH trains will be through the second-hand market. Items that are rarer or more desirable will be fetching a premium in upcoming years, just wait and see. See K Line stuff for instance.
But if anyone wants to go ahead and clear out their MTH collections at bargain basement prices, I can speak for myself and I'm sure many others in saying we'd be happy to take the stuff off your hands!
I met Mike at York years ago. I appreciate all that he has done for the hobby and admire his smarts for keeping his business going over all these years. Announcing it to the hobby in the manner in which he did was the most ethical and transparent way for all stakeholders. I thank him for that and will do a deeper look into the new catalog to see if there is anything that fits my layout's concept, which is anything and everything that fits on 60 inch curves.....
I think we all get to a point in our lives where we develop a desire to have a great purpose, to leave a mark on the world to show that you didn’t just merely exist, but contributed something great to the world. Without question Mike Wolf accomplished this. Both of my boys were given beautiful MTH tinplate engines for their first christmas, a memory I will cherish until I die, and I am sure they will love those engines forever.
You brought EJ&E products to my layout when no one else was making them. There’s more to the train world than UP, and the excitement of a new catalog release, turning a page and finally seeing an engine in the colors of your favorite railroad... well it’s just one of those feelings that is hard to beat.
I was devastated when it came to reality that the tinplate line was going to end. I can’t even wrap my mind around this announcement.
Best of luck to the employees and Mr. Wolf in the future. Not much left to say but thank you.
Behind the smiles....some heartbreaking news. 
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Took me a few years to get to MTH trains. Thank you Mike Wolf and your employees for incredible products.
Ives went under and was bought by American Flyer and Lionel Corporation, mostly for the coveted E-unit. Then American Flyer went under in the post war era. Lionel then split into two, after slot cars, boats, and easy bake ovens, to become a toy store chain, while the trains continued on as MPC, transferred to Fundimations, and then Lionel Inc. under Richard Kughn. Then Lionel LLC. we have today, which owns the Marx HO tooling, through Model Power, American Flier, Ives, and much of Weaver and has had several close calls over the years. Will MTH be gone, no. Marx came back as K-line, now owned by Kadar, as is Williams. Though the maintenance in the long run is going to get harder with the electronics. For a mechanical e-unit or horn new parts could be built in a well equipped home workshop, and sometime even motors rebult.
Wow - I'm shocked. I'm glad MTH was around as it gave Lionel a kick in the pants to up their game. I have a few signals, buildings and some rolling stock - of which they produced some spectacular products. My all-time favorite is the Sinclair gas station.
I still have flyers from some mail order company called Mikes Train House. In the Fall 1995 catalog I bought my first MTH engine. A Frisco FM H-10-44. It still runs, I still like it.
I’m going to miss buying a new MTH engine from the hobby store.
Make no mistake this is a huge blow to the market. Lionel and Atlas make great products but I’m not paying $95 for a reefer or $800 for an F3.
Best Wishes Mike on your retirement. You brought a whole lotta smiles to peoples faces.
It was mentioned above that some people might now believe that the value of their MTH trains will decrease. That doesn’t apply to me. If anything, I shall continue to value my MTH trains more than ever. They may well become irreplaceable if production does not continue. For me and the inheritors of my collection, their value will be that they represent what I believe is the finest range of products ever to have been made in O gauge. I also wonder whether a Chinese-owned company may purchase the assets and continue with production. It seems to me that interests in China would want to preserve the jobs and earnings produced there by MTH. This may be the opportune time for someone to set up manufacturing in the United States if tooling can be extracted from China. In the meantime, we have reached a watershed moment for the hobby and I am concerned for its future. Mike Wolf has been a visionary for the hobby. I reiterate my best wishes to him and his employees.
MELGAR
Can someone tell me where the new MTH steam engine manufacturing facility is located? Thanks.
MELGAR
Didn’t see this coming!!! Sucks, because competition is good for the hobby. I hope someone or company can purchase and keep it going for another 40 years.
When I collected O-gauge trains with Rock Island (CRI&P and THE ROCK) decor, I bought every RI model I could find by major manufacturers, including MTH. I owned the RI version of the Aerotrain, the DL109, and other RI locos. All were accurately decorated and ran very well. I owned more RI trains than I could ever run on a layout, and it was a great time in my life. Mike Wolf offered more RI locos and rolling stock than Lionel, so I read every MTH catalog with "Rock Island anticipation." Mike: thanks for the ride on "A Mighty Fine Line" via O-gauge.
When I sold my RI collection at auction because of my medical issues, "separation anxiety" from RI trains set in. Selling my RI Aerotrain was a difficult decision, but necessary.
Mike Mottler
mottlerm@gmail.com
It is going to take someone like Richard Kughn to save MTH. The employees have probably known for quite a while that the company was on the block and if there was any interest they would have acted on it already. With the building sold I think Mike has seen the writing on the wall and has decided it’s time to move on. I had been hoping to see one more Tinplate Traditions offering however it will take nothing short of a miracle now. I have spent Many York’s speaking with Mike, he was always the gentleman and I wish him nothing but the best. Thanks for the memories.
good luck to Mike. things happen. especially these days.
How do any of you know that LIONEL or Atlas or Menards isn't a breath away from closing.?
Answer: YOU DON'T!
@MELGAR posted:If MTH train manufacturing goes away or Lionel is able to purchase it, the O gauge hobby will be negatively impacted due to lack of competition and higher prices. The effect on local hobby shops who sell MTH will also be adverse. As someone who has bought mostly MTH products, I'm sorry to see this. My very best wishes to Mike.
MELGAR
hearsay - prices my moderate or even go down - one never knows.
Wow, I had noticed the lack of new tooling in recent years, but I still didn't see this coming so soon. This is honestly heartbreaking.
As someone who models the LIRR, this is pretty devastating. I'm a big Lionel fan but they've only done about 3 Legacy Long Island engines in the past 10 years where as MTH as done probably upwards of 10, in more paint schemes. Not to mention the amazing Nassau Hobby Exclusives I usually look forward to which are an instant buy from me.
In general, I think MTH had a much higher volume of trains and road names being produced ever year. Their premier freight car selection and choice of road names was unmatched as well and I think there will a huge demand for that stuff if nobody continues using the tooling. Many premier cars are already pricey on eBay, I fear to think what the market for them will look like once they're unavailable.
However I do think if anyone deserves to retire it's Mike Wolf, he's done an immeasurable amount of good for this hobby and completely deserves a rest. He was a true game changer in this industry.
I guess none of you picked up on the fact he sold the building in April. He is not walking away without cash. He simply didn’t have to sell the business to retire. He made enough in the real estate to do that.
Scott Smith
@Billbarman posted:Wow, I had noticed the lack of new tooling in recent years, but I still didn't see this coming so soon. This is honestly heartbreaking.
As someone who models the LIRR, this is pretty devastating. I'm a big Lionel fan but they've only done about 3 Legacy Long Island engines in the past 10 years where as MTH as done probably upwards of 10, in more paint schemes. Not to mention the amazing Nassau Hobby Exclusives I usually look forward to which are an instant buy from me.
In general, I think MTH had a much higher volume of trains and road names being produced ever year. Their premier freight car selection and choice of road names was unmatched as well and I think there will a huge demand for that stuff if nobody continues using the tooling. Many premier cars are already pricey on eBay, I fear to think what the market for them will look like once they're unavailable.
However I do think if anyone deserves to retire it's Mike Wolf, he's done an immeasurable amount of good for this hobby and completely deserves a rest. He was a true game changer in this industry.
I had a feeling this was coming. Catalogs were becoming stale. And no LC type system.
Also, there might be something going onin the Far East....beyond the virus.
1) Well, any future issues will deal with engines and DCS. Everything else on a layout can be any brand, that is it will work. I suspect that someone will come up with a way to adapt IF DCS goes away.
2) As most of us are seeing (or can see if you look) this hobby is shrinking. Most of the people you see at train swap meets/meetings have gray hair. There are very few young people interested. Somewhere in the future I suspect that most model RRing will be on computers.
Mike, congratulations on your 40 years building electric trains and have a long and healthful retirement.
Kader Industries, parent company of Bachmann Electric Trains, is a Hong Kong Company. Certainly has deep pockets, with a huge manufacturing facility along with a distribution / supply network. It would seem that it would be a possible transition if Kader Industries saw any potential in acquiring MTH.
Assuming that Lionel found out yesterday as well, I wish I could be on their Zoom meeting this morning!!! Howard is going to open the meeting with "well boys what do you think?" I hope they would buy some of their models to produce them in Legacy..I feel bad for Trainland, Mr. Muffins and all the other dealers who invest in MTH inventory!!
@Cincytrains posted:Assuming that Lionel found out yesterday as well, I wish I could be on their Zoom meeting this morning!!! Howard is going to open the meeting with "well boys what do you think?" I hope they would buy some of their models to produce them in Legacy..I feel bad for Trainland, Mr. Muffins and all the other dealers who invest in MTH inventory!!
Just Trains is also pretty much an MTH shop too. This is the issue with putting all your eggs in one basket. My mom used to work for a shipping company that did shipping exclusively for Circuit City. Guess where that company is now?
From my collection...Front and rear cover of MTH's first (as I recall) catalog and cover of the 2000 catalog signed by Mike Wolf himself. Copyright date on the 1993 catalog is 1993:
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This is sad news indeed. Our hobby would look very different today if Mike did not create MTH. We had many great products for our enjoyment over the years. The part that concerns me the most is the loss of new tinplate products. As others have said, hopefully parts of the company will continue in some fashion. Today is definitely a fork in the road for our hobby. How it continues from here will be interesting.
Thank you Mike for all you did for our hobby. Enjoy your retirement.
Sad for us and for the hobby as the competition and innovation MTH brought to O gauge compelled Lionel to up its game and do more than merely reissue "new" versions of postwar-era engines. Recall that Lionel's first new diesel--a Dash-9, if I recall--back in the 1980s was built by Mike Wolf's company.
This has caused me to reminisce a little about Mike Wolf. In particular, I recall seeing him and his wife at Trainstock a few years ago; I recall him sitting on his stool in the old Yellow Hall (under the grandstand) at York playing with MTH's then-new helicopter car, repeatedly sending the copter up into the underside of the grandstand; and touring MTH's headquarters in Maryland on an OGR-sponsored bus trip. Clearly, Mike really is a kid at heart. And aren't all of us who choose to "play with trains" kids at heart?
I hope that arrangements can be made for MTH to continue in some form after Mike's departure. Its permanent closure would be an immense loss to model railroading and particularly to the O gauge portion of it.
I wish Mike Wolf all the best in his well-earned retirement. I hope we'll still see him around once in a while.
Stay healthy, everyone.
Chris
I just read about Mike's retirement, all I can say is wow!! I have been a loyal customer since the late 90s and have loved the MTH items. I still think DCS is by far the best operating system out there. I wish Mike all the best and hope he has a great retirement. He deserves it! He revolutionized the O gauge model train business and I am sure had to work extremely hard to get it started and keep it going. Hopefully someone with Mike's interests and capabilities and money will be able to step up to the plate and keep it going somehow.
This is a sad day though for all of us MTH acolytes. You always hope something will last forever but it just never does.
Again, my best to Mike and his employees. God bless you all!
When the train market was brisk, MTH came out with some great products at affordable prices. An alternative to Lionel was refreshing to have. It is sad to see MTH close but we must come to realize that that the demographics of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing. The market once supported 8 or 9 O gauge model train companies now Lionel, Atlas, Williams and Menards remain. This is probably still enough to satisfy the market. MTH had a great run and we wish Mike Wolf all the best in his retirement. There will still be trains to satisfy the market needs but the bottom line here is that nothing is forever,
@Dominic Mazoch posted:I had a feeling this was coming. Catalogs were becoming stale. And no LC type system.
Also, there might be something going onin the Far East....beyond the virus.
I'm willing to bet your last comment, while not the sole reason may be playing into the timing and speed of this.
MTH is why I got into the hobby, This broke my heart!
Thank you Mike Wolf for all the joy and excitement you brought into my life. I hope you stay in touch with us all and let us know how your enjoying retirement. An occasional interview with OGR would be great.
please rich and andy if your reading this please take over the company. wow what sad news. I almost cryed.
@Dennis LaGrua posted:When the train market was brisk, MTH came out with some great products at affordable prices. An alternative to Lionel was refreshing to have. It is sad to see MTH close but we must come to realize that that the demographics of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing. The market once supported 8 or 9 O gauge model train companies now Lionel, Atlas, Williams and Menards remain. This is probably still enough to satisfy the market. MTH had a great run and we wish Mike Wolf all the best in his retirement. There will still be trains to satisfy the market needs but the bottom line here is that nothing is forever,
Demographics and the trouble brewing with China are more than reason enough to call it a day:
Demographics - It’s unfortunate but baby boomers are aging out faster than new folks are getting into the hobby. The market is on the verge of a serious stretch of deflation as supply will significantly exceed demand for all but the rarest of the rare. This is actually a very good time to get into the hobby as you will be able buy some high end stuff at low prices.
China - Who knows how this will turn out, but when you are dealing with a trading partner that you can’t trust it is going to be ugly.
If any of us were running a profitable business with the above undercurrents, you’d probably cash it in while there was still a good amount a cash to get.
Even though I did not support MTH by purchasing new products, I own quite a bit that was purchased on the used market and am more than pleased my purchases.
I wish Mike and his crew the best, thank you for all you have done to make the train hobby relevant in the 21st century. No matter what part of the hobby you participate in you have benefited from MTH!
Like others here on this forum, I don't know if I would be in this hobby were it not for Mike. The only offering out there was not near in scale or detail, that we now demand, thanks to Mike for an affordable price.
As far as MTH going away, never to be seen again, I hope not and doubt it would. Outside money thought Lionel was a good investment more than once. With the tooling, parts base and good will and other assets, MTH under different ownership makes financial sense.
I can't see us in 10 years with the absence of DCS, rendering our DCS engines, structures and accessories obsolete. Some of you friends have upwards of 50 engines. If a retrofit was available for $200 an engine,...you do the math. Hopefully this is transition and re-birth, not demise.
Godspeed Mike, and please be on the new board and hopefully Mr. Foster and Andy will stay with a new MTH as well, in addition to the other people that make MTH what it is today.
@Dennis Holler posted:I'm willing to bet your last comment, while not the sole reason may be playing into the timing and speed of this.
And not to start rumors, but could there also be some legal stuff in which it was best for MTH to "go away". Best we do not know for the hobby's sake.
Sunset/3rd Rail might be interested party to get some items.....
Best of luck Mike , enjoy your retirement!
Alex
I am another that wouldn't be in the hobby if it weren't for MTH. Once I have the last items in my order, that will likely be the last train purchases I make. Thanks for all the good years, Mike.
Like many have already stated I'm a little concerned about this as well. First, yes, congrats to Mike, he did a lot for the hobby. We all need a break and can't work ourselves into the grave.
From a consumer point of view who has the majority of his layout from MTH I'm really worried about support down the road. I run the tinplate traditions/Lionel Corp pieces with DCS. So I have very limited choices if things fall apart in the next few years.
A company like Dallee might do very well if they can get the rights to DCS.
Mike,
Best of luck and god bless. Enjoy retirement!
@Catonsville Central Railway posted:But if this is well and truly the end, I just want to comment in response to previous posters...if you think MTH equipment will now be worthless then I don't think you understand supply and demand. We have a hobby full of people who love to run and collect Mike's stuff. Now that MTH won't be making anymore stuff (we assume), the only options for getting MTH trains will be through the second-hand market. Items that are rarer or more desirable will be fetching a premium in upcoming years, just wait and see. See K Line stuff for instance.
But if anyone wants to go ahead and clear out their MTH collections at bargain basement prices, I can speak for myself and I'm sure many others in saying we'd be happy to take the stuff off your hands!
Woody, I agree with you. In the '70s when Lionel was owned by MPC many folks preferred the Lionel PW trains produced by the original company and the prices of those trains went up. I can see the same thing happening here if like you said this is truly the end.
Wow, it is the next day and it still feels like a punch to the gut. I knew that someday Mike would want to retire but I guess I always thought that Andy or someone else from inside the company would take over.
@Oman posted:No! These were 2 significant issues. The first was a locomotive that did not have TRUE Legacy. No way would I be able to double head this locomotive with my other Legacy locomotive. Lionel admitted their error and took it back. The second was a locomotive that Lionel said could only be repaired in China. Well, I missed the memo and the boat. Again, Lionel took it back and refunded me. But, I still do not have these models that I wanted.
Anyway, Lionel prices have gone through the roof. Too much for me. To give context to my statements, I only buy Lionel Legacy and MTH premier.
Sounds like you had some really bad luck. I have purchased numerous Legacy engines over the past few years and have had a significant issue with only one of them. On the other hand, I have purchased many MTH Premier Proto-2 and Proto-3 engines during that same timeframe, and have had significant issues with a number of them.
Pat
Done Control System - I wonder.
@ed new haven line posted:I knew this was going to happen soon. Mike had purchased a home in Florida. His company had not produced any new items in recent years. He will be age 60 this year. We both joined the TCA in 1977. I retired at age 60. I could move from the Northeast any time I desired.
Interesting. 60 is a very early age to be retiring these days.
Pat
I’ve been researching/pondering some mth because Lionel is a little to set in the same Old road names. There goes variety.
Quit reading so much into this. 2 1/2 years ago we put fiber into his building. All the utilities in that office park are under ground and they was not a spare conduit between his building and the street. It was very a expensive project. So you may be thinking Mike was investing long term into the business. That was not the driving reason. Mike said to me “I will get more for my building if it has fiber”.
Mike is retiring , just as he said. He has planned this for years. There is no crisis in China or anywhere else driving this. Mike has spend a large portion of his time every year in China to make sure the product was up to his standards. I am sure after 30 years of that he would want to retire.
Scott Smith
This news reads and feels like a punch to the gut. I certainly understand desire to retire...and having once been involved in the day-to-day operations of a privately-owned business I know it is not easy, very stressful it is. MTH has been an institution in Standard and O-gauge - Mike Wolf's history reads as an American success story - I won't repeat it here as you all probably know it, or will learn it someday. Suffice to say, I have about an equal share of both MTH and Lionel engines and rolling stock, and operate via DCS and Legacy, and I've endeavored with DCS through all the troubleshooting...and the thought of support for that going away is another stomach punch.
From a business profitability standpoint, if a company is viable and profitable then it can be sold and taken over ~ the proverbial change of management. Announcing a company is closing with an ambiguous future of the product line puts a kibosh on products coming down the pipeline as well as consumer confidence in buying existing dealer inventories. For selfish reasons, I hope someone buys the tools and dyes, patents, etc, and keeps the product lines going. And, competition is a healthy thing in business. Having two "heavy hitters", MTH and Lionel, was good for the hobby, keeps everyone sharp. It took MTH a long time, but I recently read they finally implemented whistle steam in the new Premier T1s...something that was a long-time coming...I think they previously had it only on their Premier Big Boy.
This is really sad, and potentially, bad news for the hobby.
I have been reading that a lot of people are concerned about what the future hold for many reasons - the hobby, competition, prince increases, support, World events, etc. Yes, all valid concerns. Though, yesterday evening, Steve Nelson (Mr. Muffin’s Trains) sent out an email that makes a few good points.
I think we need to take this event and see where it leads. In the coming months, a lot can change, hopefully for the better. Myself, having just gotten back into O-scale a few years ago, owe a lot to my LHS and MTH. I have locomotives on order in the 2020v1 catalog that I want to own and run that, though released in years past, were previously hard to find (N&W 611). I am not cancelling my order, and, with that, I haven’t lost hope.
While I know we (the entire world) is in uncertain at times, it has always been uncertain. US and World events change constantly at the drop of a hat. Despite all of this, I am going to continue to move forward with my hobby that I enjoy and I plan (optimistically) to see MTH, DCS, and O-scale continue to move forward also.
Been an avid MTH operator for the last 13 years and this really shocked me. Not sure where this will end up but I'm sure this puts a few more than myself in a state of waiting for what's next. Working on a new layout and I do have a lot of MTH stuff (ie: locos, rolling, lights building...) but was planning on more to finish a rather large personal layout. Hope someone or company can take over the business and keep things rolling. Good luck to Mike. Feeling a little sad for myself and the hobby also.
Congrats to Mike, and Well Done! Cheers!
How to value the enterprise, so it could potentially continue with a different owner?
- Tooling owned by China manufacturer? Any of it owned by MTH - I have no idea.
- Non-standard(?) electronics (but excellent). Neither TMCC/Legacy or DCC? Dealing with electronics and upgrades means deep pockets and commitment.
- Building already sold, so a new building is needed.
- Commitments with China manufactures have to be renegotiated (probably higher, due to risk with a new enterprise).
- Advertising cost, negotiations with new vendors?
- What is MTH sales, and future projections to justify the return on investment?
Sounds like a tough proposition. Yeah, perhaps Menards might take over some of the Railking, and perhaps even put in DCC/Conventional in those locos. Perhaps Lionel would be interested in a few items, and put in TMCC electronics.
Wow! MTH will be missed, the innovation was important to uplift the O-gauge hobby.
@samdjr74 posted:...A company like Dallee might do very well if they can get the rights to DCS.
There are several interesting scenarios to speculate about, and this one makes sense in many ways. I like Dallee and their products, but the hair on Dallas' head looks a lot like the rest of us.
This is certainly a sad development for the Hobby. In echo of many others, MTH is a big reason I rediscovered 3 rail O. My great concern at the moment is with the future of DCS, particularly the WIFI app. Without future updates, the app will eventually become obsolete as operating systems advance. Glad I held onto my remotes.
There were so many things that would not have been offered except for MTH: Mallets, Subways, BIG transformers, all those accessories, a control system that was upgradable, and so much more. Though I only run conventional, my Railking Challenger and Z4000 are the most prized items of the modern era in my collection.
As has been hoped by others here, maybe Menards will be able to make some of Mike's trains, if only the Bantam line for starter sets.
I hope all his employees find success and security in the future in this day and age.
Seems like i remember the A C Gilbert Company demise in the 60's and almost 60 years flyer by Gilbert and flyer by Lionel are still here in abundance. Today most big collectors and operators who own 20 to a hundred engines and are old like me dying and dying out daily at a time when demand is low Mth like Gilbert will always be hear. The only problem problem is parts and repair but the secondary market will solve that. Happy retirement Mike, oh what a great ride you give thank you so much and enjoy your new world.
One of our other hobbies is old houses, so here's something to consider from a similar situation: about a decade or so ago the premier art wallpaper company that replicated historic designs and designed new patterns in the historic style made a similar announcement. Bruce Bradbury, the owner of Bradbury & Bradbury Art Wallpaper, decided it was time to retire and announced the closure of the company. He allowed so many months for new orders to come in and be produced and then it would be over. A couple of months after the announcement, he announced that an employee (or group of employees, I can't remember) had come forward and offered to buy the company. Fast forward to today, Bradbury & Bradbury is still the premier historic wallpaper company to us old house freaks, and their continued success has spawned a few small, cottage-industry type competitors.
Maybe that will happen here. Like B&B, there's a thriving, well-liked company ready for it's next chapter.
Wow this is something I've never expect!! Mike Wolfe is a great guy talked to him at York a few times and he was really nice to talk too. I hope Mike had a great retirement and hopefully either the employees buy him out or the company is taken over by someone else, I have quite a few MTH trains and I love them! I'm not a one brand guy but MTH was always a strong competitor to Lionel (something we always need) I hope the best for them in the future.
Mike Wolf and Maury Klein took great financial risks to advance the hobby, Lionel followed.
I think Lionel leads at this point. However, without those challenges in electronics and design to Lionel's dominance we never would have had those advances.
Thanks Mike. You will be missed.
My best wishes to Mike Wolf whatever the future brings. I agree with the sentiment expresses here that he is in many ways a modern Joshua Lionel Cowen.
One thing I haven't seen speculation on is what the future holds for him. Mike is pretty young (60) and has a legendary work ethic. It's hard to see him playing golf all day. Who knows, maybe after a well-deserved rest, he will start dabbling in some new, less ambitious toy train related adventure.
@Gpritch posted:Why not? If you like it, buy it. enjoy it. Not sure if we can expect everything to last forever.
Fair enough. I was on the fence about a locomotive from the most recent catalog. If it was something I just have to have, I would probably still buy it. Also, my mind set was about locomotives. There's no reason to not buy rolling stock or accessories.
Now I'm pondering my DCS equipment. I have an original TIU and handheld remote. I also have a new Wi-Fi + TIU. If the new TIU dies, then I'm back to the original and no Wi-Fi. If the Wi-Fi dies, then I'm back to the original handheld remote.
There's already a shortage of DCS control devices on the market.
As a big MTH fan I'm sad to see this happen but there is some good that can come out of this in the future. If the business isn't acquired the IP could be sold off. Re-manufacture of PS2 and PS3 boards. The DCS protocol can be developed further or become open source.
