National of Mexico F3 AB "DESES" Mexican built?

Does anyone know about these models?  Just looking for information.  Two people wanted them really bad as the combined AB set just sold for over $5K (not to me).

Nice models, Value is in the eye of the buyer.

Any Information.

 

Thanks

 

 

s-l1600 [1)s-l1600 [2)s-l1600

Attachments

Photos (3)
Original Post

Wish I had known that.  I saw an ABBA set in Idaho in the 1980s for $200.  I passed, realizing that the All Nations were better in many ways.

These Mexican Diesels were die cast in metal, and surely pretty good for when they were made.  Five grand seems a tad excessive, but every now and then a truly wealthy person just has to have a new toy.  Just grin and go about enjoying your end of the hobby.

I cannot wait for high quality die cast Diesel models from Lionel and MTH.  They both have figured out how to make extremely accurate models in (ugh) plastic.

c.sam posted:

What ever happened to the proposed die-cast F units that Bill Benson of R.O.W. was trying to have manufactured years ago?  

Don't think you want to re-open that mess Sam. IIRC the TCA BOD okay'd their members getting signals rather than a cash refund of the deposits. Were any ever produced and sold?

I saw this on daBay and had decided to bid - until I saw where it was going. And I thought that the starting bid of $399 or so was a bit high...

------------------------------------

"Great looking locos!  I really wish Lionel would offer them!  I wish there was more N de M everything from everybody."

Yup.

I did this Weaver FA-2 below several years ago; this is what comes of someone giving you set of "free" decals. The lettering is decal; the red and yellow are my paint, and the "black" (actually Brunswick green, which was essentially correct) is Weaver's original PRR paint job. I had to fake the red contours on the roof - had no photo of it. I've added better horns.

I also have painted/decorated an NdeM caboose and NdeM Lionel Light USRA Mountain (NdeM bought some used FEC versions); converted a neat old 2-rail NdeM boxcar to 3RO trucks, and I have one of the Lionel NdeM BLW Centipedes.

I agree - they had some neat equipment - not all second-hand, as some believe. They even had some rather small Hudsons, bought new, and a fleet of modern 4-8-4's, based on the NC&StL "Dixies", which they called "Niagras" (note spelling different from NYC "Niagara"). 

Attachments

Photos (2)
BobbyD posted:
c.sam posted:

What ever happened to the proposed die-cast F units that Bill Benson of R.O.W. was trying to have manufactured years ago?  

Don't think you want to re-open that mess Sam. IIRC the TCA BOD okay'd their members getting signals rather than a cash refund of the deposits. Were any ever produced and sold?

First c.sam is over 2 decades behind.

Second no ROWI FT's ever reached the shores of the USA. MTH models we're the first plastic mass produced o gauge models of the FT. 

And thanks for letting me know about the TCA settlement of being paid on ROWI signals. I never knew that... And explains why there are do many of them on the secondary market.

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

Back to the $5000 Diesels - a friend who knows this stuff sent me this when I forwarded a link:

Saw a couple of those in a Mexico City train shop back in summer of 1972.
Two Mexican fat cats had dies made for these around 1952, then they got to
squabbling over $$$$$ . Thats all I know.

 

This may be the year that vintage O scale hit the big time for sky high prices ... ( at least twice) ...  the 9K Miniscale  Hudson ...and are the Mexican  F3's  the most expensive diesels  ? ... at the 4-5 K range ? 

Vintage O scale  is normally a sleepy , inexpensive, place to collect ...

Cheers Carey  

And those were unpowered units?  Wow!  $5,000+ for two unpowered units?  And another $2,500+ a few weeks ago for the powered A unit?  So that is $7,500+ for the ABA set.  Maybe 3rd Rail should add that early N de M paint scheme to their F3 preorder list.

I'm not sure this is the same model, but this engine was featured in this magazine:

IMG_20181214_094340272IMG_20181214_094442843IMG_20181214_094448150IMG_20181214_094434597

I hope you can read the article; again, I'm not positive this is the engine in question, but how many brands of "Made in Mexico" F units of this vintage could have been manufactured?

Mark in Oregon

Attachments

Photos (4)
Strummer posted:

I'm not sure this is the same model, but this engine was featured in this magazine:

IMG_20181214_094340272IMG_20181214_094442843IMG_20181214_094448150IMG_20181214_094434597

I hope you can read the article; again, I'm not positive this is the engine in question, but how many brands of "Made in Mexico" F units of this vintage could have been manufactured?

Mark in Oregon

Yep - those are the same models as seen in the O  Scale Railroading article.

I saw that article sometime back in the 80s and swore I'd find a set of those Deses N de M F units. Thanks to Ebay I picked up 2 pair maybe 10 - 12 years ago. I anted up around $600 for both sets in 2 different purchases a few years apart (one of my B units has a bowed out shell on one side - dadgummed zinc). One of the pairs came from Sal Olsen - when I bought them there was only 1 box with them. About a year later I received a package from Cleveland - a note from Sal said he'd run across an empty box for the crazy Mexican-made F unit he'd sent to me, checked his records and saw that I'd bought the N de M units from him, and he sent me the empty box. It had a Sears price tag on it - the store buyer for the Cleveland area must have had the ok to order items especially for local Sears stores as the price tag was for a whopping $50+ dollars. 

Under the hood there's a big K&D motor and an American Flyer e-unit. The mechanism is easy to work on, and things under the hood are readily accessible. I tuned up the first powered unit I got and judging by its performance it would have liked more than the 20 volts my ZW was putting out. The coupler on the front of the A unit is a scale sized dummy coupler. The rear of the A and both ends of the B unit have Lionel compatible dummy couplers. Looking at the article, the wheelsets could be converted to run with scale sized flanges (Lobaugh apparently made scale flanged wheels to convert Lionel F units to scale, and they fit the Deses made F unit as well).

They show up infrequently, almost always in the green paint, rarely in the gray and yellow like the single A unit that recently sold - most folks don't know who/what/where they are/came from. The seller sold a couple later/modernized N de M scheme Fs that were repaints (no Deses decals were to be seen on the modern paint scheme models, and I believe the models had been out of production well before that scheme was applied to N de Ms locomotives. Legend has it Santa Fe Fs were also made, but I've never seen one - you'd think if they were ever produced they would have sold better than a Mexican railroad in the U.S. Looks like for once I was ahead of the curve when it comes to getting a goodie before the price exploded...

I don't know much about the foreigners as I have no interest in that stuff.  The only thing that I recall about Mexican trains is that when Lionel tried to manufacture down there it proved to be a disaster.

 

Builder of the Hill Lines ( New Delta Lines). Recreating history for the model RR community.

Add Reply

Likes (1)
briansilvermustang


OGR Publishing, Inc. PO Box 218, Hilliard, OH 43026 330-757-3020
www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×