New Catalog Item 2-10-0 Strasburg Engine #90

@Paul Kallus posted:

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Paul,

The following is a screen shot from time stamp 1:54 of the video that is attached in the catalog. It seems to be their engineering model of the engine. If this is accurate, then the boiler will be round only above the #1 and #2 sets of drivers then will have a housing for the motor block over driver sets #3 and #4. The firebox starts between sets #4 and #5.

Thanks for posting that screen shot - I just went into the online catalog and watched the video - it seems Lionel is heavily promoting this model. I guess I am getting old but the first time I viewed this catalog I thought the price read $899.99 - but now I see it as $1,899.99.  Is this price on-par with other brass-diecast hybrids? Even all brass models are not this costly, or are they? Regardless, I am bailing out, even factoring in a 15% preorder discount to the MSRP is too much for my budget.

Not to belabor my inquiry about the new 2-10-0 Strasburg engine...I am still shaking my head on how I initially misread the price as $899.99, but here are examples of the differences in casting locomotive boilers in die-cast, with the last picture being a brass model.

1st picture: Lionel scale diecast Berk (I used the gold painted PE Berk to illustrate): boiler has under-side U-shape where the suspension is cast in as part of the boiler shell. 2nd picture is of MTH diecast Berkshire - note more prototypically correct rounded underside of boiler with slot to accommodate drive mechanism. 3rd shot is 3rd brass with drive mechanism under 4th set of drivers (the cat's meow of boiler making , though as shown in picture No. 2 below correct and better looking boilers CAN be made in diecast.

I'm thinking in the case of the #90, the boiler will be brass, so there's no good reason it can't be round, at least at the front.

And here I thought I was the only modeler who cared what the boiler looked like under the running board.  These things can be fixed, even when die cast.  I have done two K-Lines and an MTH - screws and JB Weld work great for die cast, and of course brass is even easier.  The U shape boiler is relatively recent - check out the 700E and its offspring.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but here is my freelance 2-10-0 with round boiler.  I may someday move the motor to the tender, but right now it is powered by a very small Escap motor.  Plenty of power for what I do.

And from what I see on that screenshot above, this model will be a giant step  backward for Lionel.  Their FEF, maybe the UP 9000, and several others appear to have good boiler bellies and no faked-on driver springs (ugh).  And the price?  Go 2-rail; it is cheaper.

Bob, that is real nice looking model you made.

I have a hunch there's others in the master boiler maker camp...but unfortunately some either don't care or have never seen a real steam locomotive up close. The fault or issue here is that Lionel's early scale steam designer (early 2000's) used the monolithic die-cast boiler with cast in driver springs for almost all their scale steam models and they've have been re-issuing it ad nauseum; and, despite consistent price increases over the years, we keep buying reissues because of the latest bells and whistles (I have as well). Though, I do applaud Lionel as some, but not all, of the "new" designs within the past 10 years, have prototypically correct boilers, including the Vision Line Challenger and Reading T1 - both awesome models - so am not sure there's a reason why they cannot get Engine #90 correct, especially since its being promoted as a brass-hybrid.

At this point, given the lack of input from Lionel and the outrageous price point of the model, I am taking a spectator role.

I have enjoyed reading the above comments.

On a different item re #90...Would anyone know when the paint scheme was changed from "1990's" to the "2000's" as depicted in the Lionel catalog. Surely it didn't happen Jan 1, 2000?

I'm very thankful a detailed model of this engine is available, mine will be pulling four of the MTH "White Train" NY & NE Overton Passenger cars.

Paul

#90 was repainted from the 1990s paint scheme to the Great Western paint scheme (as offered in the catalog also) for a photo charter. After the photo charter I think she wore the Great Western paint for some time before taking on its current "2000s" livery.  Just need to pin down when the early 2000s Great Western photo charter was.

Most sources I've found say the no. 90 wore the Great Western all-black scheme starting in 2006. About two years later, the lettering on the tender went back to Strasburg, and that's what's shown on the 2231030 model in the catalog.
Though, I'm a little shocked the Great Western 'diamond logo' scheme no. 90 wore in 2013 wasn't an offering in the catalog. Along with the egg logo model, it's definitely the dressiest scheme no. 90 has worn in its career.

Well, preorder time is fast approaching for BTO items featured in the new catalog. For me, the lack of information and details on how No. 90 will look is critical. The best street price I've been able to find is $1,750, which is to me very high for a single non-articulated engine, regardless of brass-diecast hybrid construction. For that price, I would expect a Vision Line model, and that the model, specifically the boiler, would look at LEAST as realistic as 3rd Rail's Brass model, albeit the picture I showed was of a 2-8-0, but the point is valid. Animated cab figures would also be a welcome feature

With lack of competition we'll not likely see another No. 90 anytime soon by another manufacturer, and as pointed out, this model is not a Russian Decapod so the MTH Premier 2-10-0 is not a comparable model. Is anyone else dissuaded by the price point and/or uncertainty of what will actually be delivered? My hunch is that since No. 90 is one of a handful of operating steam locomotives today, the model will be made and sell out. The Lionel video did indicate that they'll be future releases of No. 90 in different looks...am wondering if that means they'll be all diecast and therefore less costly?

The Lionel video indicated people have been "begging" for this model for years...I didn't know that people begged for toy trains...well maybe some over-indulged kids, lol.

Congrats to anyone getting this. I wish I could afford it but I already have on reserve a 3rd Rail locomotive so my train budget is pretty thin right now. I agree I think it will sell out. I am curious to see what this model will look like in person. I hope they have a prototype at York either this year or next April.

Mikado 4501: Great Picture!!

@Paul Kallus posted:

Well, preorder time is fast approaching for BTO items featured in the new catalog. For me, the lack of information and details on how No. 90 will look is critical. The best street price I've been able to find is $1,750, which is to me very high for a single non-articulated engine, regardless of brass-diecast hybrid construction.

Paul,

Would you be able to share where you found it for this price?

Nassau Hobby has it for $1,710. That’s where mine is pre-ordered.

Just few thoughts FWIW. I am not into Strasburg, too far from my main interests, so will not be purchasing this. At $1750 the price may not be out of line. Detail should approach 3rd Rail plus it will have better electronics. Consider that 5 years ago a 3rd Rail 0-6-0 retailed at $1500.
Its unlikely another 2-10-0 will be diecast as it would cost too much to make the dies otherwise this one would be diecast. A diecast casting has less internal volume than brass so it would be even harder to fit the electronics and drive.
I agree it will sell out, just not to me.

Pete

Good point, Pete.

PRR, I saw that price at Charles Ro.

I have never pre-ordered so that is why I am asking.

Have any of you who pre-order very expensive engines after only seeing a rendering of it been disappointed when you see the actual model you bought?

Why don't they have a prototype to look at?  At least one that the manufacturer can show off in a video.

John

@Craftech posted:

I have never pre-ordered so that is why I am asking.

Have any of you who pre-order very expensive engines after only seeing a rendering of it been disappointed when you see the actual model you bought?

Why don't they have a prototype to look at?  At least one that the manufacturer can show off in a video.

John

The investment in a prototype locomotive based on the actual numbers of units that will be sold is very costly in today's manufacturing environment.  The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale.

I often pre-order.  It is often the only way to get the item I am looking for. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

The investment in a prototype locomotive based on the actual numbers of units that will be sold is very costly in today's manufacturing environment.  The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale.

I often pre-order.  It is often the only way to get the item I am looking for.

Thanks Jonathan

John

"The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale."

I was under the impression that the shell was going to be die-cast, not brass? If the locomotive super-structure is going to be brass then I can see the price point more clearly.

@Paul Kallus posted:

"The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale."

I was under the impression that the shell was going to be die-cast, not brass? If the locomotive super-structure is going to be brass then I can see the price point more clearly.

Rusty