New Catalog Item 2-10-0 Strasburg Engine #90

@Rusty Traque posted:

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

Ah that is not what Marty is saying. Besides, the amount of time that has been spent on this particular locomotive I would say requires them to get it right. Ryan has put himself in the crunch zone moreso than before because of him saying, "we want to get it right" or something like that. If these engines come out in the 49er paint scheme, it will just be a huge disaster the likes which we've never seen(well, me anyway).

To further on Marty's point, he has been an advocate for the quality control issues to tighten for a good number of years. So much has come up nuts when it should be what it is supposed to be. He has said several times over the years, "we need to send them back if they are wrong."

@Rusty Traque posted:

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

As long as the smokebox on the 2000's version is this shade of graphite and the side rods not overly shiny, then I will be happy.

(My photo of 90 from last weekend)

@Grampstrains posted:

No matter how good that engine is when it's made, someone will find fault with it.

That is always true. Thing is people can be happy with the limitations of modeling, but shouldn't be happy with something that is completely and utterly wrong like colors or misspelled words(and other things).

@MartyE posted:

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

@Grampstrains posted:

Perhaps but creating a problem before one exists is absurd.

Well, some people can never be happy. I have only met two or three people in my life that fall into this category and thankfully I do not. There's just no pleasing some people.

@Rusty Traque posted:

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

But Marty isn't saying send it back without it being here to have eyes see it. He is saying that people should send it back if it is wrong, meaning after it is in there hands to see.

I'm sure I won't send it back before I see it, and I doubt I'll have to send it back.  Good grief, we're complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet!  Don't we have enough to complain about that has happened?

It's gonna be good guys. We plan on going to Strasburg and recording 90 ourselves for the sounds. We just revised the CAD to add even more separate detailing. It'll be a nice loco.

We're gonna trust you on this one Dave, well at least I'm going to trust you.   Looking forward to seeing this one, a real Strasburg locomotive has been a long time coming!

Thanks Dave. I look forward to seeing the hard work put into this.

I really don’t see much complaining just discussion of what to do if folks are unsatisfied and other good discussion on the item itself.

@Dave Olson posted:

It's gonna be good guys. We plan on going to Strasburg and recording 90 ourselves for the sounds. We just revised the CAD to add even more separate detailing. It'll be a nice loco.

Dave, I'm sure I speak for others when I say that I appreciate the time and effort you and the team are putting in on these models.

Better get to Strasburg soon, 90 doesn't have that much more flue time before her upcoming 1472. Be sure to note the smokebox shade of graphite while you are there.

As a ride note, there was a recent discussion on RYPN in which Kelly Anderson (recently retired member of Strasburg mechanic team) mentioned that 90's original as built whistle was very similar to a PRR passenger whistle - it would be cool to see you guys include this as one of the 5 whistle options.

Good to hear from Dave again, and hope that this lives up to everyone's expectations(which some people may have higher than most, just saying).

The main thing I am looking forward to in this catalog is this model. I opted for the 2000's version of it because that is the one that I rode behind. I believe that this model should be one of the best produced, and hopefully with the reassurances at York about sample, the colors and any other thing that may slip through the cracks, should be spotted beforehand.

Like Marty said, not complaining, discussing. And the bit about returning/sending back should be interpreted like if you went to a restaurant. What I mean and what should be the obvious is that if you order a hamburger, you may let the pickles not being on there slide. However, if you ordered a hamburger, and a hot dog comes instead, there is going to be big issues. Yeah, I know, hot dogs and hamburgers, how ridiculous. Enough about that.

@Dave Olson, are you going to highlight anything in the future in Demos with Dave(before the engine gets in), or even if you and Ryan just talk about how things are going with this during any conversations you have live?