Benchwork - Laying Track

John, I can agree if I wasn’t planning to move, painting the walls sounds like a good plan.

I hope you get over Covid soon and are feeling up to par to continue working on the layout.

@Aegis21  John, I did basement waterproofing decades ago and the experience led me to an aversion to drilling holes in basement walls unless absolutely necessary. The Masonite is easy enough to hang, the only thing is how to handle a curved corner if hung.  Going out to buy 3 panels today to start the process. Not really looking forward to it, but tired of looking at the concrete walls.

Jeff here is a thought, if you put a 2x4 attached to the back of the layout about 2' in from the corner on both sides and then you can force a bend into the section that needs to be curved. Just an idea. Then continue hanging the rest of the backdrop.

@Hannibal-St Joseph RR posted:

I like the brick!  And I understand your Paralysis by Analysis - it is intimidating to constantly do things we’ve never done before!  But that’s also the joy of this hobby - learning and growing.  I’m also finally moving ahead on my layout.  Choose to have a bias for action!

Thanks for the encouragement! It does help a lot!!

Here are a set of update pics of layout. I am hoping the layout is functional and will keep operators interest for a long time. I am still wondering/confused on the yard and which tracks and where they should have cross overs. I'm sure I am leaving things out that were some of the features I was looking for, however I need to get this project rolling. Pun intended.

Thanks in advance for all the help everyone has supplied.

John

More layout pics

Here is the latest scarm file, I hope! lol

John, very impressive! I sure hope we find a new house with a big basement that the CEO will let me have most of for my train room and layout.

@Aegis21 posted:

I am still wondering/confused on the yard and which tracks and where they should have cross overs.

John, there's nothing magical about crossovers in the yard. They're simply placed wherever you think they might be useful based on how you intend to operate.

In this example, there's an engine on the Lt Blue track waiting to use the turntable. There's another engine on the turntable coming out of the roundhouse. For whatever reason, it wants to leave the yard using the Lt Blue track, not the Red track. So, it can use the crossover to do just that.

In this example, a train pulled into the yard on the Yellow track. The engine needs to get out, so it dropped the cars before the crossover and can use the crossover to the Blue track to "escape". The same is true if the train had come in on the Blue track. The engine could then crossover to the Yellow track to escape.

In this example, the small Blue yard engine just finished assembling a consist of tanker cars on the Lt Blue track. It now wants to combine the 2 Brown cars on the Red track with the 4 Brown cars on the Green track. It can use the Blue/Red crossover to pick up the 2 cars on the Red track, then move through the Red/Green crossover to attach them to the 4 on the Green track.

Of course, if you don't intend to perform these types of yard operations, then you don't need any crossovers. The idea is to provide some interest moving cars around to build consists, rather than just watch trains run. Or you might have a friend who enjoys yard operations. Or if you have friends over for an actual operating session where one will build consists while others run trains to various points on the layout delivering full loads and picking up empties, etc. Due to the limited size of the yard, these may not be totally prototypical, but hopefully they give you ideas for why crossovers are included in yards.

Great pics and great progress. But I’d offer two observations: 1) it looks like you haven’t left much room for scenery or structures; 2) I note you’re using a Lionel bascule bridge. It’s a great accessory, but many modern scale locos can’t pass through it because it’s too narrow. Just to be safe, I’d check it out with the engine’s you expect or want to run. I had the same black version you have but sold it because of this issue. I’m looking forward to seeing more photos as you progress.

Rubin

Great examples Dave! I like how you spell it out!

John, side note/question. Who is the maker of your Topside Creeper?

Looks good, John!  Nice description, Dave!

Always remember, if you don’t like something later after track is ‘permanently’ fastened down, you can change it.  Look how many times I have changed things.  Yes, the pristine wood now looks chopped up, but lots of screws hold everything solid.  😄

I will keep that in mind Mark for sure.

I unfortunately will be in bed with a case of covid-19 rebound, so progress is definitely on hold.

THANKS for all the help from everyone.

John

John , I'm so sorry your still under the weather with Covid! I wish you a speedy recovery!

John, I'm praying you get over this rebound once and for all!!  You have a railroad to build!! 

@DoubleDAZ posted:

John, there's nothing magical about crossovers in the yard. They're simply placed wherever you think they might be useful based on how you intend to operate.

In this example, there's an engine on the Lt Blue track waiting to use the turntable. There's another engine on the turntable coming out of the roundhouse. For whatever reason, it wants to leave the yard using the Lt Blue track, not the Red track. So, it can use the crossover to do just that.

In this example, a train pulled into the yard on the Yellow track. The engine needs to get out, so it dropped the cars before the crossover and can use the crossover to the Blue track to "escape". The same is true if the train had come in on the Blue track. The engine could then crossover to the Yellow track to escape.

In this example, the small Blue yard engine just finished assembling a consist of tanker cars on the Lt Blue track. It now wants to combine the 2 Brown cars on the Red track with the 4 Brown cars on the Green track. It can use the Blue/Red crossover to pick up the 2 cars on the Red track, then move through the Red/Green crossover to attach them to the 4 on the Green track.

Of course, if you don't intend to perform these types of yard operations, then you don't need any crossovers. The idea is to provide some interest moving cars around to build consists, rather than just watch trains run. Or you might have a friend who enjoys yard operations. Or if you have friends over for an actual operating session where one will build consists while others run trains to various points on the layout delivering full loads and picking up empties, etc. Due to the limited size of the yard, these may not be totally prototypical, but hopefully they give you ideas for why crossovers are included in yards.

not sure what image doesn't show, however you have answered several question i had wit this excellent write up. es I would like to have yard operations for interest and if they aren't prototypical , well that is the way it is. lol

Dave, Rubin previously mentioned that the black bascule bridge is narrow and some engines may not fit. That pointed out a glaring fact that is the only access to/from yard. Except for the crossover switches from Main line 2 to yard. Can you suggest better access to yard? I am bummed about bascule bridge as it has sentimental value. My Dad and I would go through the bascule bridge on the way to our fishing grounds.

I cannot recall who inquired about topside creeper, it is a Traxion 3-100 which is solidly built and I use it ofetn, it works out well so far.

@Aegis21 posted:

I cannot recall who inquired about topside creeper, it is a Traxion 3-100 which is solidly built and I use it ofetn, it works out well so far.

Thanks John, that was me!

John, I don't have a solution for the bascule bridge. As I understand it, the problem is that some modern equipment, such as double stacks, double-deck passenger cars, Schnabels for oversized loads, electrics with pantographs up, etc., won't clear the top. If you don't have those, you shouldn't have a problem, but you may have to limit future purchases or swap out the bascule. You can still run that equipment, you'll just have to use alternate methods to get them to/from the yard. I don't see anyplace you can move it that would make sense. So much of your design is dual-tracks. In fact, there are 2 places where you have single-track bridges that need to be looked at.

First thanks to all for the well wishes! I think I am turning the corner and symptoms are waning.

Dave, Thanks for your input on the bascule bridge, I do not have anything that is as large you have mentioned, and if I do then another route to yard maybe a good alternative to keep those options opened. Two single track bridges that need looked at is the bascule bridge and a single track MTH bridge. The bascule bridge needs to be with the MTH dual track bridge as shown for simulating the River and the single track MTH bridge should be somewhere around the main street town. It is very hard for me to visualize each section, landscaping, buildings, roads, industries, towns and the like. I am taking the approach suggested by taking one section at a time, however it would be so much easier to do backdrops first then build out, so to speak. Maybe that is another reason masonite makes sense. It can be removed to be painted, although having nice finished seams would be another challenge. If I am feeling a little better I will look into adding another yard access without adding even more track to an already crowded layout.

Thanks again ALL

John

John, glad your feeling better. I do much better looking at your pictures than layout diagrams. Much easier to visualize for me as far as elevations and such. Your bascule bridge I’m guessing is ground zero and level with the yard area. The MTH bridge is raised on piers and the reason for using the bascule bridge in the foreground now makes sense. Ships coming under the elevated bridge need the same clearance so the bridge has to rise.
I think your plan is fine as is. Most layouts have some restrictions as to what you can run. Not always a bad thing to having to limit your purchases.

John, I am also glad your feeling better! If it was me I would just take one of your longest cars and then one of your tallest cars and just had roll them into the bascule bridge to check for clearance. The only concern I would have is the front swing from a steam engine! I found a problem with my UP 4-8-4 where one way the front would hit a support beam and then the other direction the rear of the cab would drag on the beam and would never be able to back it up in that section!

Either way take it easy and enjoy what your doing, just like your 3D track spacers, it will come to you and I know it will be great!

@Dave_C posted:

John, glad your feeling better. I do much better looking at your pictures than layout diagrams. Much easier to visualize for me as far as elevations and such. Your bascule bridge I’m guessing is ground zero and level with the yard area. The MTH bridge is raised on piers and the reason for using the bascule bridge in the foreground now makes sense. Ships coming under the elevated bridge need the same clearance so the bridge has to rise.
I think your plan is fine as is. Most layouts have some restrictions as to what you can run. Not always a bad thing to having to limit your purchases.

Hi Dave,

Yes your observations are correct as shown and I agree on your suggested limitations, the trains will have to navigate the bridge as is for starters. (maybe permanently) You are correct about the stationary bridge being higher, although I plan on having it a bit lower than shown when the section gets cutout for the river. It will be higher than ground zero (bascule bridge) but not full height to accommodate a lower grade going to yard. And if I find one more place to access the yard then for myself this is a non issue. Just need to know engines and cars longer/higher or wider than the bridge need to use a different route.

Thanks John

@mike g. posted:

John, I am also glad your feeling better! If it was me I would just take one of your longest cars and then one of your tallest cars and just had roll them into the bascule bridge to check for clearance. The only concern I would have is the front swing from a steam engine! I found a problem with my UP 4-8-4 where one way the front would hit a support beam and then the other direction the rear of the cab would drag on the beam and would never be able to back it up in that section!

Either way take it easy and enjoy what your doing, just like your 3D track spacers, it will come to you and I know it will be great!

Thanks All for all the get well wishes!

Mike, your suggestion is great, however that means unpacking many boxes (which should have been done by now lol ) And inventorying what I actually have for cars, engines and see what fits and what doesn't fit. I have been pretty old school and I'll guess 90% of cars are postwar, four passenger car set silver dawn is one I recall that are 18" long I believe are the longest cars I have for sure. There is one set I got on a auction that has a larger NYC engine and heavyweight cars. If they don't make it they can be sold. Great idea to check things out and see what the immediate problem or lack thereof, that need to be handled.

Covid update: Still test positive but feeling better, hoping for a negative test tonight!

Thanks John

Today I will start to finalize (at least I hope) the main street pavers. First prints were to see if the idea was a good or bad one. Then, since the commander (my wife) suggested it, it is now a must have. After looking at the street pavers compared to some of the brick buildings the street pavers seemed to be on the large size (not to O scale) Anyone have suggested size of city street pavers? I know growing up in Brooklyn New York I played on what was called cobblestone streets. (rubber balls took wild hops playing stickball also steel skate wheels had difficulties to say the least) LOL I will look to see if there are any dimensions given for these anywhere so I can scale them down to 1:48 Any suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks John

@Aegis21 posted:

Today I will start to finalize (at least I hope) the main street pavers. First prints were to see if the idea was a good or bad one. Then, since the commander (my wife) suggested it, it is now a must have. After looking at the street pavers compared to some of the brick buildings the street pavers seemed to be on the large size (not to O scale) Anyone have suggested size of city street pavers? I know growing up in Brooklyn New York I played on what was called cobblestone streets. (rubber balls took wild hops playing stickball also steel skate wheels had difficulties to say the least) LOL I will look to see if there are any dimensions given for these anywhere so I can scale them down to 1:48 Any suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks John

Hi John, there is a scale chart in the OGR  3D section. I don't know if it will help.

I know when we had to do maintenance on one section of brick road left.in our county the bricks were 2 1/2" thick 3" wide and carried between 5" - 6" long.

John, there are lots of brick streets here in Butler.  I live just outside of town, but I do walk with the dog onto some of those streets.  Our older daughter lives on the old road that leads into Butler from Pittsburgh which winds down the hill, all brick still, as is The Diamond at the court house.  They are all normal sized bricks you would use to build a house.  These are all now over 100 years old.  I can recall going to Penn Tech in Downtown Pittsburgh, and their street pavers were stone and a little larger than house bricks, but not a lot.

John, I’m glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had Covid twice but, fortunately, they were mild cases and I am fine.
I also grew up in Brooklyn in the 50’s and 60’s ( Midwood High School and Brooklyn College, class of ‘74) I don’t recall anything in that area that had cobblestone streets but they definitely were present in parts of Williamsburg and elsewhere.
Do you remember the electric buses which were powered by centenary in Brooklyn? As I recall, the part of Roebling Street on which they ran had cobblestone streets, but I may be wrong.
I seem to recall that several of the scenery vendors like Vollmer made plastic sheets of stone streets that would be very useful. You could lay down parts of the sheets, cover the rest of the street with whatever you’re using, and create the look of an old cobblestone street which has been paved over but whose pavement has worn away in some areas,  exposing the cobblestones of the past.

Rubin

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, there are lots of brick streets here in Butler.  I live just outside of town, but I do walk with the dog onto some of those streets.  Our older daughter lives on the old road that leads into Butler from Pittsburgh which winds down the hill, all brick still, as is The Diamond at the court house.  The are all brick, normal sized bricks you would use to build a house.  These are all now over 100 years old.  I can recall going to Penn Tech in Downtown Pittsburgh, and their street pavers were stone and a little larger than house bricks, but not a lot.

Thanks Mark,

I will be trying to make it as close to large house bricks that my 3D printer will do a good job printing, and looks close to authentic. It is looking like a 3mm x 6mm brick is the most pleasing, although large, not as large as my original 4mm x 8mm. Smaller looks too busy and detracts from the scene ( IMHO ) I'm printing some test pieces to get a better idea of scale and size.

Thanks for the input.

John

@RubinG posted:

John, I’m glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had Covid twice but, fortunately, they were mild cases and I am fine.
I also grew up in Brooklyn in the 50’s and 60’s ( Midwood High School and Brooklyn College, class of ‘74) I don’t recall anything in that area that had cobblestone streets but they definitely were present in parts of Williamsburg and elsewhere.
Do you remember the electric buses which were powered by centenary in Brooklyn? As I recall, the part of Roebling Street on which they ran had cobblestone streets, but I may be wrong.
I seem to recall that several of the scenery vendors like Vollmer made plastic sheets of stone streets that would be very useful. You could lay down parts of the sheets, cover the rest of the street with whatever you’re using, and create the look of an old cobblestone street which has been paved over but whose pavement has worn away in some areas,  exposing the cobblestones of the past.

Rubin

Hi Rubin,

Glad you made it through your covid bouts, mine bout is not a severe case but not really all that mild, especially with the rebound aspect (gets mentally challenging) But I seem to be coming out of it ok. Now I am praying my sweet wife doesn't get it!

Brighter topic, SMALL WORLD lol I did grow up in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, 676 Grand Street, attended grammar school at St. Mary's Immaculate Conception across from PS18. Then Bishop Laughlin M.H.S. and CCNY for engineering class of '74. I don't remember the  electric busses, just the black smoke from the ones that ran on Grand street to middle village. Some of the cobblestone streets were being paved over  while I was growing up there, we moved to Queens when I was in 7th grade and took public transportation to finish grammar school in Brooklyn.

Thanks for the idea of using the sheets of stone to simulate cobblestones peaking through the asphalt.

Thanks for the tips and trip down memory lane.

John and Rubin, those trips down memory lane are always the best!  I always find it neat when Forum members find that they have a connection from their past, especially childhood.  
John, I thought I would mention the brick streets in Butler since we now live in neighboring counties.  I went to a rural school in Butler County, and was the country boy in the ‘big city’ going to Penn Tech, graduating in ‘76.  They were still running the cream and maroon PCC cars all over downtown and the rest of the city.  Lots of the streets still had the stone pavers with lots of tracks for the PCC cars.  You had to be careful waiting at corners for the light to change, because the center of those cars would overhang the curbs at the crazy triangular corners mostly on Liberty Avenue, since Downtown Pittsburgh is a triangle.

John,

Not exactly what you are looking for... but, take a look at Ray's (sidehack) Stone Foundation .stl., in the 3D catalog.  They are 3.64mm x 6.76mm with a nice depth of field for that granite/cobble look.  I thinned the backing down to use as a veneer for the foundation of my engine house.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John and Rubin, those trips down memory lane are always the best!  I always find it neat when Forum members find that they have a connection from their past, especially childhood.  
John, I thought I would mention the brick streets in Butler since we now live in neighboring counties.  I went to a rural school in Butler County, and was the country boy in the ‘big city’ going to Penn Tech, graduating in ‘76.  They were still running the cream and maroon PCC cars all over downtown and the rest of the city.  Lots of the streets still had the stone pavers with lots of tracks for the PCC cars.  You had to be careful waiting at corners for the light to change, because the center of those cars would overhang the curbs at the crazy triangular corners mostly on Liberty Avenue, since Downtown Pittsburgh is a triangle.

Hi Mark,

Excellent info on the area to help with my kludge of Pittsburg, Brooklyn and Conn. There will be little overall prototypical cohesion for sure. However it is more about my wife's memories and mine than it is to be a replica of a certain area/period so to speak. It may not be totally to scale, however 3mm x 6mm brickwork seems like it gives a real paver look without distracting too much from the overall scene. I'll cobble together some 3D printed pieces (yes pun intended) to get a final look.

Last night I tested negative for covid (finally) so I am hoping to make some progress with these projects. I still need to finish the layout on the yard side. With Daves' fantastic diagrams on yard switches, I have a good reference to use for that planning. Now if I can only find that fountain of youth, I'd get some energy back!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

John,

Not exactly what you are looking for... but, take a look at Ray's (sidehack) Stone Foundation .stl., in the 3D catalog.  They are 3.64mm x 6.76mm with a nice depth of field for that granite/cobble look.  I thinned the backing down to use as a veneer for the foundation of my engine house.

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for directing me to Ray's tremendous contributions to the 3D world! His work is great! I will certainly look and use his work for building foundations and all the other items he has generated. This forum not only has tremendous talent, but even more importantly members who truly enjoy helping others in this hobby. I will have to look at all the new items in the 3D area again, so many additions since I have last looked.

Again Thanks Dennis!

John, yours and your wife's memories make an excellent theme for your layout.  I had to convert millimeters to inches to get an understanding of you pavers size.  I still have trouble thinking in metric.  Yes, that will be a good size for your cobbled cobble stones. 

I'm glad you tested negative.  That fountain is as elusive now as it was for Ponce de Leon.  Hopefully, you will get energy back soon!

John glad your feeling better and back working on the layout! I think it's a great idea to make things closer to your wife's and your memories!

I have been searching the net and there are many 3D sites with free file downloads.

Thanks Mike for the support, the first area to check out 3d files of model railroads is here OGR

https://3d.ogaugerr.com/

I need to get sometime and review again all the offerrings on this 3d file forum. Extremely talanted members and they give their work freely.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, yours and your wife's memories make an excellent theme for your layout.  I had to convert millimeters to inches to get an understanding of you pavers size.  I still have trouble thinking in metric.  Yes, that will be a good size for your cobbled cobble stones. 

I'm glad you tested negative.  That fountain is as elusive now as it was for Ponce de Leon.  Hopefully, you will get energy back soon!

Thanks Mark for the feedback, your work on the your hotel and coffee building is outstanding. I hope I will do half as well when and if I get to that point. lol

Does anyone know of a model of the Duquene incline in Pittsburg ???? That maybe a huge scratch project I can work on down the line.  Need to find layout space first.

sidemote, energy is coming back slowly, I usually push recovery faster than I should, so this time I am taking it slower than I may need to, I wrooy about my wife getting sick if I relapse again.

John, if you have a FB account, you can see some great photographs of the cobblestone streets at “Remember When: Pennsylvania” “Pittsburgh”. One I saw is the two lane (narrow for two lanes) 4th Avenue, which is where my former employer’s Pgh telecom hub is located.  The stones are slightly larger than kiln fired bricks.  Yes, 4th Avenue and others are as narrow today as in 1900 when the photographs were taken.

Have been working on everything but the layout. Honey do time out for sure. I am about to attack the backdrops and how to do them... It would seem that they would be last to do, to carry the scenery and roads, rivers, buildings into the horizon. However if I am painting them, all the scenery would be in the way of painting. (my head hurts lol) Getting hog tied again with over thinking, I think..... pun intended