NKP 765's Steam Schedule on Norfolk Southern

Sounds like the 765 will do all the work if the diesel is on the rear, unless you have a really long MU cable !  

You ARE aware that railroads do have radios now!

So then you won't be going around the loop...just reversing back down?

765 did all the work last time! Do you hear any diesel engine noise in this video?

 

Does the FRA even allow for pushers anymore?  

Nearly half of the westbound trains out of Altoona have helpers on the rear (limit is 2000 to 2500 tons per group 5 or modern 6-axle unit) and some even get a set on the headend too!  Helper operations are still quite common in rail operations today; especially over the Alleghenies.

That being said, I'm pretty sure putting a helper on the rear of a loaded passenger train would be highly frowned upon.

Not sure if the rules are different for them but Western Maryland Scenic regularly has 1 or 2 GP30s pushing on the rear of either their passenger coaches or cabooses. No accidents that I know of as a result of the practice but I can see where it would not be something advisable to do. 

Fellas, the diesel that will be on the rear of the train is NOT a helper. It will be there to lead the train coming back down the hill. Since we are not going to turn, that's the only way to do it!

 

I was referring to the fact that there won't be an electrical connection between the 765 and the diesel this time and if there was a need for additional power the control box in the 765 wouldn't work.  The person in the diesel would have to bring the diesel online. 

I was referring to the fact that there won't be an electrical connection between the 765 and the diesel this time and if there was a need for additional power the control box in the 765 wouldn't work.  The person in the diesel would have to bring the diesel online.

 

Yes I also know the 765 did all the work on the curve last August and the diesel was just along for the ride. 

I'll admit...the sight of a Pennsy-painted diesel leading a passenger train around the Curve will be pretty awesome too...

There will not be a "...person in the diesel" unless NS calls two crews for these trains. The NS operating crew will be on the 765 going up the hill.

Why would the FRA be involved at all?

Hi rich,  you say the 765 will move through Greensburg, PA on the 13th?  when they depart on the 13th, about how long does it take if they leave at 9 am to get to Greensburg?  I wondered because I wanted to tell my office chums some time that we need to get near the tracks. 

 

oh, any stops in Latrobe station at all?  or any stops in Greensburg station?

 

thanks a bunch

Chris

Where do you guys get the idea that the FRA has outlawed pushers?

OF COURSE pushers are still used today! Did you read FormD's post in this thread? He said, "...Nearly half of the westbound trains out of Altoona have helpers on the rear..."

Anywhere there are steep mountain grades to be climbed, you are going to see pushers. Even in gently rolling terrain, such as the NS (ex-PRR) Fort Wayne Line between Crestline, OH and Conway, PA you may see high-speed pushers shoving trains at 50 mph in order to maintain speed over the road.

 

Chris D, the move on the 13th is a deadhead move. As I have said many times, deadhead moves do not operate on a set schedule. We move when the railroad is ready for us. I have no idea when we will be coming through Greensburg. When we do get moving, we will not be making any station stops. Why would we?

I saw "pushers" working outside of the Enola Yard on Saturday evening.

I think what Chris was asking, when you do move is there and estimated time span to get from point A (Conway) to point B (Greensburg).  My guess is that you'd still be hard pressed to get a time due to traffic and such on the line.

 

If memory serves me when the 765 left Conway, it took about 45 minutes to reach Pittsburgh's West Park.  That's just an estimated.

 

Chris just keep an eye on the GPS.  You could probably get a pretty good idea from it.

 

I know last year it was an App for an iphone etc. or via the Fort Wayne RR website for the 765.  I believe Rich stated earlier that it will be a new app so I would assume it will still be both.  I actually used the website even on my iPhone because the app was unreliable but the website kept up better.

A new NKP 765 GPS Tracking app (iPad, iPhone and Android devices) will be available in a few days. This one will actually work. I think it will be $2.99 in the app store.

 

When it's available, I'll post a link here.

It's not that I had an idea that pushers were outlawed,  just that I really didn't know what current regs are in regards to passenger trains. (I should have specified.) Are pushers these days manned, or r/c from the lead unit?  You'll have to excuse me, nearly everything I know of "modern" railroading comes from the collection of Trains Magazine back issues I was gifted as a kid, so from ~1988 backwards.   My teen and college years were spent on girls, guitars and sports cars, so just like I'm playing catch-up to understand command equipped toy trains, I'm equally behind on real railroading.

 

Chris, as Rich said, your best bet is to put the GPS tracker app on your phone and follow 765's progress.  These deadheads move when NS gives them the railroad, so there's no way of "planning" beyond the actual date of the move.  Even an estimated time from Conway won't pin it down, as they may be held for other traffic on the way.

Wowak, I don't know the regs regarding pushers on passenger trains. I've never checked because it would be highly unusual to "push" a passenger train. I doubt that they would be allowed. The diesel that will be on the train under discussion here will not be providing any power. It will be just along for the ride going up the hill.

 

The reason you see pushers on freight trains is because the amount of tractive power required would exceed the rating of the couplers if all the power was placed on the head end. So some of the power has to be placed elsewhere in the train to distribute the pulling forces so you don't pull the train apart. In most cases this takes the form of a set of manned pushers shoving on the rear. Passenger trains are never heavy enough to present that problem, which is why you would see the "helpers" in the steam days on the front of the train, double-headed with the road power.

 

Out west, "Distributed Power" is often used to conquer the grades in the Rockies. This is a setup where a consist of mid-train, radio-controlled helpers provides the extra power. I have never run a train with DP, but Wyhog has. Perhaps he can chime in here with some additional info about DP.

So 765 will virtually be dragging not only the passenger cars but the diesel as well, unassisted up the hill?  AWESOME...

Pretty much. I'm personally looking forward to that sound.

Rich, my thought was more of a hypothetical one.  I agree that there would be little or no sense in putting a pusher at the tail of a passenger train.  I was thinking more in terms of the bizarre turn of events, i.e. 765 is half way up the hill, then (insert unlikely emergency here) and the foreman suddenly needs you off the hill N.O.W. *Could you* throttle up the diesel? (As in does 765 have control of it, AND would the FRA have something to say about it if you did?)  I know... it'd never happen. But I love the bizarre minutiae of rules and practices.

With the diesel on the rear it is just another car in the train. I have no control of it from the 765 and don't need any.

 

You also need to achieve a better understand the role of the FRA. They are not sinister "policemen" on the prowl looking for violations. The operating rules of the railroad dictate what we can and cannot do in any given situation, not the FRA looking over our shoulder trying to catch us doing something "wrong."

I'm doing a terrible job with words today.  I need to go back to bed.

Will you be passing by Conway Yards on the way to Gallitzin?

They won't be on the days of the Employee Trips or on Memorial Day weekend.  But during the ferry moves, I imagine they would (May 13, and May 29-30, overnighting in Conway then).  Am I right?

765's entire schedule is on the OGR Forum Calendar.

 

We won't be anywhere near Conway Yard on the Altoona Employee trips. Conway is probably 100 miles west of Gallitzin.

I saw this on May 13 "DEADHEAD MOVE - Cleveland - Conway - Altoona".

 

I was just hoping to get an idea what time you would be passing conway? I live close to there and was hoping to get a glimpse

As I have said here dozens of times...there is no set schedule for a deadhead move! We move when the railroad is ready for us.

 

If you want to know where we are at any given time, you'll have to buy the GPS tracking app. It will be available in the app store next week. I'll post a link here when it's available.

 

OK, will do, thanks

Another thing was if I remember a blog of some sort going. That would give some times as they found out about them. It was helpful to give you a rough idea when things might happen or move on a deadhead run. 

Nope. NS has plenty of Train Masters and such that do THAT job...

Please be away that Fairbanks Morris produced the "Train Master" 2400HP diesel electric locomotive. I'll bet that NS, and many other railroads, have management personal with the title Trainmaster. 

If Rich doesn't mind me plugging another forum here, another good option for monitoring the excursion train's progress is the preservation site www.rypn.org. Last year, I found it a useful tool for obtaining very timely information regarding the train's location. At times, it seemed as if the locomotive couldn't make a move without someone posting about it within minutes.

 

Bob  

Another place where you may find timely info is at trainorders.com.