NYC J3a Hudsons galore. Which one are you getting?

Hmm, counting Hudson's. J1 with Vanderbilt tender, both Commodore Vanderbilt's(silver & black), CCI #773, CCII ESE, Legacy ESE and the two new ones(1939 Pacemaker & Mr. Muffin's). I think that makes 8? I would say that I still need some more of these. I have said on other posts about here that the Dreyfus needs to come back, but I would also like to see the Mercury and other Streamlined Hudson's(even though I'm not sure what other ones are out there).

Dave,

The Empire State Express Hudson 5426 later pulled the Mercury. But the locomotive you may be thinking of, that was shrouded similar to the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson, was actually a Pacific.

MERCASPOP

 

Below is the Hudson that was later re-lettered "The Mercury."

Mercury Hudson

Skip  

TCA, LCCA

"On track, on time, and over budget!" 

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Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:
NYC Fan posted:

The Empire State Express Hudson 5426 later pulled the Mercury. But the locomotive you may be thinking of, that was shrouded similar to the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson, was actually a Pacific.

MERCASPOP

Wow, got me there. Interesting as they imply its a Hudson here, them bugger's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(train)

Interestingly, The Mercury Pacific, when replaced by the Hudson, was used on the "James Whitcomb Riley."

James Whitcomb Riley 4915

Skip  

TCA, LCCA

"On track, on time, and over budget!" 

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Now this is interesting, and very helpful. From Wikipedia.

"After the MC, Big 4, and B&A locomotives were incorporated into the NYC numbering, the NYC Hudson locomotives had road numbers ranging from 5200 to 5474. The NYC J-1 road numbers were 5200-5344, the MC J-1s became NYC 5345-5374, the Big 4 J-1s became NYC 5375-5404, the J-2s (all from B&A) became NYC road numbers 5455-5474, and the J-3 road numbers were 5405-5454. The J-2 numbers are last because they were transferred to the NYC after the J-3 deliveries."

Always wondered about the road numbers.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Now this is interesting, and very helpful. From Wikipedia.

"After the MC, Big 4, and B&A locomotives were incorporated into the NYC numbering, the NYC Hudson locomotives had road numbers ranging from 5200 to 5474. The NYC J-1 road numbers were 5200-5344, the MC J-1s became NYC 5345-5374, the Big 4 J-1s became NYC 5375-5404, the J-2s (all from B&A) became NYC road numbers 5455-5474, and the J-3 road numbers were 5405-5454. The J-2 numbers are last because they were transferred to the NYC after the J-3 deliveries."

Always wondered about the road numbers.

The B&A engines were numbered in the 600 and all were gone off the property by the late 40’s  So were the Berkshires

MELGAR posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Melgar, you want a J2,  They are out there.  

https://mthtrains.com/20-3583-1

Thanks Gary. The MTH model is really a J1e and I already have an older one with PS2. Would like to have one with a 4-axle tender, smaller drivers, proper sandbox.

MELGAR

MELGAR_B&A_J2_616_11

Ditto

Gweedo posted:

Going for Engine # 5410 from Pacemaker set without the cars the cars.

Great - order it from me here. $1259.99 with free shipping.... 

I've been looking at the catalog pictures of the various J3A Hudsons and envisioning the custom-run versions and its kind of funny that nobody is making a totally darkened locomotive with as-built (smaller) tender. The closest is #5418, which I was liking the most (gray smokebox is neat) until I stared at it long enough and the polished cylinder heads look a bit out-of-place on an otherwise all darkened locomotive. Why would the cylinder caps be polished when the running gear is darkened? Thus, there's no option for someone that wants an all darkened locomotive and regular tender. If you want an all-darkened locomotive, you have to buy one with a PT tender-which costs more. To me, this is a head-shaker.

Wonder what all the fuss about classification lights on the J3A for the second time - remember all chatter in 2001 on the same issue. What about the fact that the feedwaters were change on the J3A from Elesco (horizontal tank like device to Worthington rectangular like device on the top front on the smoke box) during or shortly after the war.

Paul Kallus posted:

I've been looking at the catalog pictures of the various J3A Hudsons and envisioning the custom-run versions and its kind of funny that nobody is making a totally darkened locomotive with as-built (smaller) tender. The closest is #5418, which I was liking the most (gray smokebox is neat) until I stared at it long enough and the polished cylinder heads look downright silly on an otherwise all darkened locomotive. Why would the cylinder caps be polished when the running gear is darkened? Thus, there's no option for someone that wants an all darkened locomotive and regular tender. If you want an all-darkened locomotive, you have to buy one with a PT tender-which costs more. To me, this is a head-shaker.

I wonder if Lionel has any intentions of making sure each Hudson model offered is going to be an accurate replica if posted illustrations are anything to go by.  I've posted a lightened up image from a Lionel ad of what 5452 is supposed to look like when released.  Timken roller bearing rods are missing, smokebox front is not the Selkirk type and an incorrect feed water heater is visible.  Classification lights are shown though it has been written within this thread that Lionel may be including a separate smokebox front sans those lights.  Does anyone know what the end result may be? 

5454

 

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Paul,

I ordered 5418. There are several pictures of it in the book "Thoroughbreds". I think one just like the Lionel Art work. Page 176 photo from late 1940. It looks to have polished side rods and cylinder heads. There are 4 pictures of the 5418 right together in all stages. And then again on page 178 its pulling the Commodore Vanderbilt in Dec. 1939. Plan on double heading with the Pacemaker set since they seem to be about the same time frame.

Looks like it started life with Boxpox drivers and when the 1939 photo was taken it had mixed drivers and then by 1940 it was all DISC. Then by 1947 it was mixed again w/ PT tender and then by 1952 back to boxpox.

Hope this helps you.

Home of the Texarkana & East Texas Railroad (Cotton Belt,

Texas & Pacific, MoPac, KCS, and T&NO)

That's interesting, Blue Streak. I don't have that book (only Pennsy Power  I suppose I could always apply Neolube or try to match the black paint should I buy 5418.

On another note, I read in the catalog that Hudson #5452 appears as it did after shrouding was removed. Was this the former Empire State Express Hudson or Dreyfuss Hudson? It also states with original Elesco feedwater heater - but I didn't note any difference with the other Hudson's pictured.

The J3A Hudson is getting under my skin...I've been really trying to avoid them as the Bi-Polar is going to be taking the majority of train funds this year...but I've been wanting a scale Hudson with Legacy for some years now, and its very tempting.

There is a picture of 5452 in the same book (page 194) right after being De-streamlined. It says "De-streamlined 5452 still has its Elesco heater in 1952"

So  I think either one 5418 or 5452 is correct. Comes down when / what you are modeling

Home of the Texarkana & East Texas Railroad (Cotton Belt,

Texas & Pacific, MoPac, KCS, and T&NO)

Paul Kallus posted:

I've been looking at the catalog pictures of the various J3A Hudsons and envisioning the custom-run versions and its kind of funny that nobody is making a totally darkened locomotive with as-built (smaller) tender. The closest is #5418, which I was liking the most (gray smokebox is neat) until I stared at it long enough and the polished cylinder heads look a bit out-of-place on an otherwise all darkened locomotive. Why would the cylinder caps be polished when the running gear is darkened? <snip>

Paul, this is the very (all black) version that is being correctly offered by Pat's Trains as No. 5416 (see below). The burnished cylinder heads on an otherwise freshly shopped all-black J3a was normal for that class of Hudson pulling The Twentieth Century in 1937-38. Also, No. 5419 in pictured in a 1938 photo having the identical appearance pulling The Century  on page 92 of "20th Century" by Lucius Beebe*.  The New York Central employed only reasonably sharp J3a's to pull "The greatest train in the world".

Respectfully,

Bob

* Owning Thoroughbreds is truly essential, but Beebe's book is also worth having in one's library. 

Paul Kallus posted:

I've been looking at the catalog pictures of the various J3A Hudsons and envisioning the custom-run versions and its kind of funny that nobody is making a totally darkened locomotive with as-built (smaller) tender. The closest is #5418, which I was liking the most (gray smokebox is neat) until I stared at it long enough and the polished cylinder heads look a bit out-of-place on an otherwise all darkened locomotive. Why would the cylinder caps be polished when the running gear is darkened? Thus, there's no option for someone that wants an all darkened locomotive and regular tender. If you want an all-darkened locomotive, you have to buy one with a PT tender-which costs more. To me, this is a head-shaker.

The all black one with the shorter tender is what I would like. 

Which Hudson am I getting you ask? Why I'm getting the one that you guys put up for sale to partly finance the new one that you're getting! That's the one I'm getting! LOL!! Wish I could afford the new ones but I can't, so I'll take sombody's second hand one!

Engines of any sort, steam, diesel or electric are just fascinating pieces of equipment.

Paul Kallus posted:

That's interesting, Blue Streak. I don't have that book (only Pennsy Power  I suppose I could always apply Neolube or try to match the black paint should I buy 5418.

On another note, I read in the catalog that Hudson #5452 appears as it did after shrouding was removed. Was this the former Empire State Express Hudson or Dreyfuss Hudson? It also states with original Elesco feedwater heater - but I didn't note any difference with the other Hudson's pictured.

The J3A Hudson is getting under my skin...I've been really trying to avoid them as the Bi-Polar is going to be taking the majority of train funds this year...but I've been wanting a scale Hudson with Legacy for some years now, and its very tempting.

The ESE streamlined Hudsons were 5426 and 5429.  Lionel has modeled these in various states of their service lives.   Another good book on the NYC Hudson is Know Thy Hudsons by Tom Gerbracht.  Unfortunately it is no longer available.  Thoroughbreds may be available on ABEBOOKS.com or possibly Ebay if interested.

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harmonyardsPeter Araujolaz1957Alan MancusDave NYC Hudson PRR K4


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