Pride Lines/Ives Double Dome Station

Beautiful station, Steve. I love those glass-dome Ives stations. I'm planning to pick one up for my own layout eventually.

How's the quality on the Pride Lines repros? I've heard mixed reviews on some of their rolling stock, but not much on their stations.

Cheers, Ken

Great looking,Steve.  You really come up with great stuff.  I always admire your finds and  knowledge of tinplate.

Norm

Really Nice! 

Bob

love the color and the whole look of that.

Enjoy your new find.

Very cool

Steve,

Great addition! I researched the station on the Ives Society web site, a valuable resource for anything Ives, but I was only able to confirm what you had already determined i.e. one dome plus two stations. I too found it confusing with the description being "double-dome" station. I will be attending the Ives Society meeting at the next York meet and I will make inquires on your behalf.

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

Very nice Steve! One of those are on my want list eventually. 

Pride Lines made the single dome and double dome, but you could also get a dome as a standalone without a station.  I think these items are good quality.  Lithograpy is sharp and the dome structure is cast.  No lights in the domes.

Pride Lines did a good job with their rendition of the Ives station. These are clearly marked and well made.

Forgot the pictures....

Found a couple of old flyers for the Glass Dome Station...

Very nice and I am looking forward to seeing that on your layout.

Looks GREAT!

Bob

That's a great-looking combination of pieces. Congratulations on the find. Now you've got me looking!

Steve,

to answer your question,

NO, Ives never cataloged a "double dome with one station".

It was always one dome,

-by iteself

-with one station

-or with 2 stations.

That being said, perhaps they should have.

Yet another item drawing me into a desire to buy timplate.... Cool looking piece

I just do not get the 2 station one dome concept. My Ives book calls it a 123 terminal station.

For me I would run a single dome station with 2 add on dome platforms for 3 on one side. That is just me.

The station Steve has looks nice in a tinplate world.

Well,

The beauty of the PL reproduction items is that you can make whatever you like and not destroy an incredible antique toy.

I'm sure Ives had some sort of reasoning behind their marketing.

That being said, the double station #123 is very hard to find and was probably not a high volume seller.

On the earliest version of the Ives 116 station, the base did not extend out beyond the roof overhang: it would be impossible to install the posts that hold up the canopy.  When Ives decided to combine the station and the canopy, they enlarged the base so that it would extend out past the roof overhang to give room for the posts and the side of the canopy.

But the base was enlarged on one side only.  It never would have been possible for someone to make a double-canopy station out of parts, because the base was only wide enough on one side of the station.

The 2-station, 1-canopy combination was possible with the base wider on one side of each station; but Ives never made a base for the 116 station that was extra wide on both sides.

The double-canopy station, with the double-wide base on the station, is a Pride Lines inovation.

david

And a nice looking idea they had

Steve

The double-canopy station, with the double-wide base on the station, is a Pride Lines innovation.

david

 This is temporary, but I like the domes end to end.

Steve

agreed!

Steve,

   Ya got to love it!

PCRR/Dave

end to end makes more sense.

The station is really nice and gets a little lost with the domes on each side.

I'd call that a Papa Eastman innovation, and a nice looking idea he had!

Everyone has their own preferences, but I have to say I have not come across a Pride Lines product that I didn't like.  Solid construction, heavy gauge tin, bright litho, I think they did a very fine job.  The Ives glass canopy must have been one of the more difficult traditional accessories to try to reproduce, they aced it.

david

In order to set it up permanent end to end, I need two more uprights. Also one piece of glass was broken. For now the glass is glued together. Luckily Frank Davanzo still has some inventory of the uprights and glass, so they have been ordered.

Steve

Where the domes butt together maybe you could put a center truss that receives glass from both ends. Do not know where the post holes will fall in the bases. Saves 2 posts and turns the 2 domes into 1 large dome.

I agree as far as metalwork and decoration, but not on anything mechanical or electrical. The dome station is beautiful - and it doesn't have any moving parts. I have the version of the Pride Lines Hiawatha with separate cars and a prototypically styled Beaver Tail observation. It's a beautiful set, and the locomotive has a prototypical paint scheme rather than the simplified Lionel version. However, I have had to replace every single moving part with Lionel and MTH parts. The field coil on the motor failed, the eccentric cranks broke because the metal was brittle, and all the holes were drilled off square. Seldom have I seen such a combination of beautiful decoration and hopeless mechanical quality. Talking to experienced tinplate parts and repair guys, I get the same story - pretty, but it doesn't work and it's hard to fix because things don't quite fit. The dome station and other stationary products don't suffer from the mechanical problems. Pride Lines also did some very nice reproductions of old Manoil automobiles - I've heard they actually had the original molds, but I can't verify that. I'd like to have a dome station myself, but there isn't room on my layout. I've thought about redoing the museum layout so we could install one, but that might create some overhead clearance problems for some of the more exotic Standard Gauge equipment that members sometimes operate. I'm not sure my Super 381 or another member's Boucher Pacific would go under the dome. 

No, they won't.  Although, there's an easy modification.  I cut a short length of brass bar and drilled both ends, to be able to move the posts and bases out about one inch on each side.  This gives you all the width clearance you need.  I have mine near curves, so I needed to do this.  The modification does not permanently change the canopy any - it can be changed right back.  You may still have a height clearance issue, although I doubt it, the canopy is not particularly low.

(click on photo to enlarge)

david

David,

Does this clearance problem for a 381 only apply to the domes if they are located next to a curve as from you photo it appears that there might be enough clearance if the domes were located on a long straight.

Bob Nelson

Bob, good question, let me get some measurements this weekend and get back to you on this.

david

David,

I notice that your picture shows Pride Lines separate dome and separate station models vice their models with one or two attached domes.  If in fact your modification is needed for clearance even on straight track, can it also be installed on Pride Lines stations with one or two attached domes or will it only work when the station and dome(s) are separate structures?

Bob Nelson

Steve, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, so let us know if this feels like it is hijacking your thread, and we can start a new one for this discussion.

Bob, my modification to widen the stance of the dome happens at the top of the posts, where they meet the glass canopy; so I am sure it would work for any dome configuration, whether separate bases or station base.

The top of the posts have either a simple pin or a threaded stud, which go into eyes in the top canopy casting.  Using a piece of flat brass bar about 1/8" thick by 3/4" wide, and about 1-1/2" long, with holes drilled in each end: one hole goes over the pin in the top of the post, the other hole uses a small machine screw and nut of the same diameter, to fasten the bar to the eye in the canopy casting. Using these dimensions will widen the canopy about 1" on each side, or close to 2" additional width total.  

This modification works well with my Pride Lines canopy that has the threaded stud on the top of the post: tighten the nuts and the whole structure is relatively secure.  My dad's old original Ives canopy just had the pins in the top of the posts, and the result with the brass extensions is even more wobbly than the original.

I will get back to the layout later this weekend and get some measurements.  Steve, would it be convenient for you to measure the width clearance (between the posts) inside your unmodified canopy?

david

Here's what I found.

The Lionel Super 381 has a maximum width of 5-3/8"

In my modification to the Pride Lines canopy, I used pieces of brass 1/8" x 3/4" x 1-1/2": the holes drilled are spaced exactly 1" on center, which gives an extra inch of width on each side, for a total increased width of a full 2".  This is propbably more than you would need to do, but I needed it because of the curves right at the end of the canopy.

AS MODIFIED, the width clearance of my canopy is now 6-15/16" between the posts, just a hair under 7".  The height clearance is also 6-15/16 from the top of the tubular tinplate track rail.

Steve can verify this by measuring his unmodified canopy, but since I gained 2" with my brass pieces, the width clearance of the canopy unmodified should be right around 4-15/16" or 5".

Since the Super 381 is 5-3/8" wide, it would probably not fit between the posts of the canopy as it came from Pride Lines.  I say "probably" because I am measuring the width clearance between the largest diameter part of the turned post, which is at the top and bottom.  But the widest part of the Super 381 is the cab side railings which are more in the center of the posts, where the posts are thinner.  It might actually just squeak through.

As for height, the Super 381 has 3/16" to spare over its roof.  Needless to say, this is with the pantographs down.  Because of the 1/8" thick brass pieces, I gained an extra 1/8" of height clearance.  So theoretically the Super 381 would still clear by 1/16" under an unmodified canopy, but it would be very close and YMMV.

david

The unmodified Pride Lines Canopy has about 5 1/8" clearance between the posts.

Steve