Quickie RMT BEEP Command Upgrade

Looks good John.

I'm all in on using Lionchief boards to upgrade conventional locos. Which board did you use?

My RS3 upgrade cost me $99.00 for the board and interior details. A bargain to get a command engine out of the deal.

GRJ, Really cool idea!

This seems really cost effective and impressive. Would you consider putting together a detailed article for the magazine so those of us who need step by step instructions can benefit?

@RSJB18 posted:

Looks good John.

I'm all in on using Lionchief boards to upgrade conventional locos. Which board did you use?

My RS3 upgrade cost me $99.00 for the board and interior details. A bargain to get a command engine out of the deal.

Well, my upgrade really didn't cost anything.  I had a board that was kicking around for several years, I tested it and found that it appeared to work.  So, I just stuck it into the BEEP.  I believe the simple LC boards from earlier models are $45 on Lionel parts, the later Bluetooth boards are $99 with a handful at $79.  I haven't tried any of those, though it should be a similar process.

Another interesting idea is A board I have from a FlyerChief GP7.  It apparently has Cruise Control, and also has Bluetooth, and goes for $75, that would be a neat upgrade for a small locomotive.

@SantaFeFan posted:

GRJ, Really cool idea!

Thanks, it just happened to catch my eye and I was tinkering with a couple of BEEP's on the bench.

I used  a Bluetooth board which was $79....

Haven't been doing this as long as you to have stuff laying around.....🤣🤣

@RSJB18 posted:

I used  a Bluetooth board which was $79....

Haven't been doing this as long as you to have stuff laying around.....🤣🤣

There are a few of those, most of them are $99.  You'd be surprised how much stuff accumulates over the years.

Gentlemen,

What do you use for controlling the engine? Possibly a LC universal hand held or maybe the Lionchief app on a  smartphone for Bluetooth?

I have a conventional Williams F7 that might be a good candidate for conversion.  Would the Lionchief board work in that unit?

Thanks

@third rail posted:

Gentlemen,

What do you use for controlling the engine? Possibly a LC universal hand held or maybe the Lionchief app on a  smartphone for Bluetooth?

I have a conventional Williams F7 that might be a good candidate for conversion.  Would the Lionchief board work in that unit?

Thanks

Since I didn't have a matching remote, I used the LC Universal Remote.  My board has no Bluetooth, so I didn't have the option of the BT App.

My only reservation on the Williams F7 is it's a pretty big engine and I don't know how robust the motor drivers are for some of the LC boards.

Universal remote or app for me.

My RS3 had to be wired in series. The boards only have one motor output. I have a small layout so short trains shouldn't put too much load on the board.

Excellent work @gunrunnerjohn and @RSJB18. It's interesting and looks maybe doable even for those not as advanced.

@RSJB18 posted:

My RS3 had to be wired in series. The boards only have one motor output. I have a small layout so short trains shouldn't put too much load on the board.

Lots of boards only have one motor connection, classically they're wired in parallel for multiple motors.

@John's Trains posted:

Excellent work @gunrunnerjohn and @RSJB18. It's interesting and looks maybe doable even for those not as advanced.

Yep, other than identifying the connectors on the board, it's all basic wiring, and not much of that.  The connectors are all JST connectors, the power is typically the JST-EH 2.5mm, and the other connections are JST-PH 2.0mm connectors.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There are a few of those, most of them are $99.  You'd be surprised how much stuff accumulates over the years.

A few questions; do you purchase direct from Lionel?
I think @rsjb18, Bob mentioned that there aren’t any boards for electrics.
Then is there a way to turn off engine sounds and have all the rest?

@pennsyfan posted:

A few questions; do you purchase direct from Lionel?
I think @rsjb18, Bob mentioned that there aren’t any boards for electrics.
Then is there a way to turn off engine sounds and have all the rest?

Yep, I do buy direct from Lionel.

There is an "engine sounds" switch on LC and LC+ boards that turns off the engine sounds.  For a permanent "off", just short that pin to the ground on the same connector, no more engine sounds.  For steam, that switch turns off the chuff sounds.

@pennsyfan posted:

A few questions; do you purchase direct from Lionel?
I think @rsjb18, Bob mentioned that there aren’t any boards for electrics.
Then is there a way to turn off engine sounds and have all the rest?

Bob- If you find a bluetooth enabled board then you can use the LC app- you can adjust the volume of individual sounds like the prime mover, and keep bells and horns, crew talk active. With the remote you can only turn sounds on/off via the switch as John mentioned.

I didn't even install the switch in my RS3 since I can control sound through the app.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Bob- If you find a bluetooth enabled board then you can use the LC app- you can adjust the volume of individual sounds like the prime mover, and keep bells and horns, crew talk active. With the remote you can only turn sounds on/off via the switch as John mentioned.

I didn't even install the switch in my RS3 since I can control sound through the app.

Bob

Bob, will a bluetooth enabled board work without a motor tach sensor? It appears to me Lionchief Plus and Lionchief Plus 2 both use motors with sensors.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Bob, will a bluetooth enabled board work without a motor tach sensor? It appears to me Lionchief Plus and Lionchief Plus 2 both use motors with sensors.

Pete

I think they are the second generation boards Lionchief w/ bluetooth. The 2.0 and plus 2.0 boards need the motor feedback to work. When I asked the same question, John said it was a PITA to attempt to add the components to an older engine.

My goal with the engine I did was to replace a cranky Weaver reverse unit. I was going to put a Dallee board in but when I found the LC/BT board it was a no brainer. Command control at a lower cost than the Dallee would have cost. Still no electro-couplers or smoke but an economical upgrade of a conventional engine. I happened to find a board from a New Haven engine so other than the engine number being wrong, the crew talk even makes sense.

Bob

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lots of boards only have one motor connection, classically they're wired in parallel for multiple motors.

I had considered that John, but series wiring is my go-to to slow engines down. I'm happy with the results.

@RSJB18 posted:

I think they are the second generation boards Lionchief w/ bluetooth. The 2.0 and plus 2.0 boards need the motor feedback to work. When I asked the same question, John said it was a PITA to attempt to add the components to an older engine.

My goal with the engine I did was to replace a cranky Weaver reverse unit. I was going to put a Dallee board in but when I found the LC/BT board it was a no brainer. Command control at a lower cost than the Dallee would have cost. Still no electro-couplers or smoke but an economical upgrade of a conventional engine. I happened to find a board from a New Haven engine so other than the engine number being wrong, the crew talk even makes sense.

Bob

So is there a LC/BT board that doesn’t require a motor sensor? Thats what I am trying to find out or does original LC work with Bluetooth. I thought LC first generation was just RF tuned to a particular frequency and code like a garage door opener.

Pete

@Norton posted:

So is there a LC/BT board that doesn’t require a motor sensor? Thats what I am trying to find out or does original LC work with Bluetooth. I thought LC first generation was just RF tuned to a particular frequency and code like a garage door opener.

Yes, any of the LC/BT boards that are not the Plus or 2.0 versions don't have a sensor.  Any new plain LC stuff has BT, there are a number of them.  There is also the board I mentioned previously for FlyerChief, the 6-44115, that has BT and back-EMF cruise!

The original LC boards before BT were indeed individually coded to a remote, that changed with the BT equipped versions.

Here's the parts breakdown for one of many BT equipped LC engines.  This one has the truck embedded horizontal motors, no flywheels and no motor encoders.

2134080001 CSX LionChief U36B-Loco

Thank you John. I had seen that board but didn’t realize it was new LC and not original LC. As mentioned before I have zero experience with LC other than dealing with their mechanical issues.

Price is right for sure.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Thank you John. I had seen that broad but didn’t realize it was new LC and not original LC. As mentioned before I have zero experience with LC other than dealing with their mechanical issues.

Price is right for sure.

Pete

Yep, there are earlier generation LC BT boards for $75, I couldn't find one when I looked.  When the LCP series of Legacy boards came out, they also used the same hardware base for the LC+ 2.0, that's also when the new $99 LC board showed up.  I'm pretty sure there are no more LC+ boards that are not 2.0 version.

I like the cheap boards as many still have a remote, so for small money you can drop it in something like a BEEP and have a command equipped engine on the cheap.

A Flyer board with chuff in for steam would be ideal. I have a few candidates for a cheap upgrade like a Feep and early Docksider.

Pete

@Norton posted:

A Flyer board with chuff in for steam would be ideal. I have a few candidates for a cheap upgrade like a Feep and early Docksider.

Pete

I'm not sure what's in the new Flyerchief locomotives, I haven't had one apart, and there is no parts breakdown.

A search of the Lionel parts site.....lot's of options available in basic LC or LC/ BT

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...20PCB%20%20BLUETOOTH

@RSJB18 posted:

A search of the Lionel parts site.....lot's of options available in basic LC or LC/ BT

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...20PCB%20%20BLUETOOTH

Yep, most of those are the LCP boards at $99.  Also, you need to check and see if you can get the matching remote if you want a dedicated remote.  Also, a majority of those are the LC+ 2.0 boards that require a tach reader.

@RSJB18 posted:

A search of the Lionel parts site.....lot's of options available in basic LC or LC/ BT

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...20PCB%20%20BLUETOOTH

Would this be correct for LC with bluetooth ? I’m thinking the rectifier would be good rather than having steam or diesel.

@RSJB18

Thanks for your reply Bob,  

What’s bugging me is I have this GG1.
A board from parts would be a perfect board but when I put the sku 2001140 in it’s not found.  

Now I know just enough to be dangerous.

thanks guys,

@pennsyfan posted:

Would this be correct for LC with bluetooth ? I’m thinking the rectifier would be good rather than having steam or diesel.

Those boards don't have Bluetooth.  Also, those are LC+ boards and use the tach sensor on the motor. a more complicated installation.

@pennsyfan posted:

@RSJB18

Thanks for your reply Bob,  

What’s bugging me is I have this GG1.
A board from parts would be a perfect board but when I put the sku 2001140 in it’s not found.  

2001140 is not a Lionel SKU.

@pennsyfan posted:

@RSJB18

Thanks for your reply Bob,  

What’s bugging me is I have this GG1.
A board from parts would be a perfect board but when I put the sku 2001140 in it’s not found.  

Bob- best way I found to research which board to buy was to find the original set/ engine description on Lionel's site. The product description will list all of the features- Lionchief, bluetooth, smoke, etc......

Hard to tell just by looking at the part description.

Always use the 6-xxxxxx number when searching. I have also had success using the engine model and road name. Sometimes less is more in the search terms too. Starting in google search often yields better results with links to Lionel's site.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Bob- best way I found to research which board to buy was to find the original set/ engine description on Lionel's site. The product description will list all of the features- Lionchief, bluetooth, smoke, etc......

Hard to tell just by looking at the part description.

Always use the 6-xxxxxx number when searching. I have also had success using the engine model and road name. Sometimes less is more in the search terms too. Starting in google search often yields better results with links to Lionel's site.

Bob

Thanks, its cooler this morning Im going to go in the attic and look for the box.

Here's the parts site search results for SKU 2034010, the LC+ 2.0 GG1.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/search?keywords=2034010

Here's the Lionel product page for the engine.

http://www.lionel.com/products...20-gg1-4935-2034010/

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's the parts site search results for SKU 2034010, the LC+ 2.0 GG1.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/search?keywords=2034010

Here's the Lionel product page for the engine.

http://www.lionel.com/products...20-gg1-4935-2034010/

Thanks GRJ, the box was absolutely no help. Now I see the tach tape.

Would this board work with a conventional K-line engine?

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-A-LCM5-GG-1-2034010

That board requires a tach reader on the motor, so unless you want to get into fitting mechanical parts, it won't work.

@pennsyfan posted:

Thanks GRJ, the box was absolutely no help. Now I see the tach tape.

That's interesting, Lionel doesn't recognize that number, but I discovered it's an uncataloged item.  Odd that it doesn't show up anywhere, even on the parts site.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That board requires a tach reader on the motor, so unless you want to get into fitting mechanical parts, it won't work.

That's interesting, Lionel doesn't recognize that number, but I discovered it's an uncataloged item.  Odd that it doesn't show up anywhere, even on the parts site.

Thanks again for all your help. I am going to save the link that you provided in case I ever need a part for the GG1.

@pennsyfan posted:

Thanks again for all your help. I am going to save the link that you provided in case I ever need a part for the GG1.

Yep, the parts are generic, the only thing different for that model over the cataloged modules I suspect is the shell.

Here's a Illinois Central BEEP I converted to wireless battery powered a while ago. Still running nicely with all functions intact.