How does that battery fit in that shell? Or are you dragging the battery around in another car?
The battery is a 2000MAH NiMH and is mounted on a trailing flatcar. I rarely resort to this approach. Almost all of my battery powered conversions have the battery positioned inside the loco shell. Some of these setups were shown in the OGRR RUN335 article on positioning the on-off switch. Note the on-off toggle switch on the side of the BEEP.
gunrunnerjohn...... is the "quickie RMT Beep Command Upgrade presented here a potential upgrade solution for the K-Line Plymouths, which you previously showed us?
thanks,
Denis
@DENIS ORAVEC 110218 posted:gunrunnerjohn...... is the "quickie RMT Beep Command Upgrade presented here a potential upgrade solution for the K-Line Plymouths, which you previously showed us?
I don't think the board would fit into the plymouth, but I haven't actually tried it. However, I just took out a Plymouth and holding the board up to the two cavities possible for it to live in, neither one is large enough for the board. That seems to say it's a no-go.
A major concern with all upgrades is whether the selected control board will fit in the loco. It is always a good idea to do a lot of planning before attempting an install. Module dimensions as well as all electrical characteristics are available from most manufacturers and should be consulted.
gunrunnerjohn...... Thanks much for the quick look at the viability of the LC board for use as an upgrade for the K-Line Plymouth. I did not have a board to make the physical comparison. Your help is much appreciated
Denis
@DENIS ORAVEC 110218 posted:gunrunnerjohn...... Thanks much for the quick look at the viability of the LC board for use as an upgrade for the K-Line Plymouth. I did not have a board to make the physical comparison. Your help is much appreciated
Denis
A trackmobile board, same as an ERR Mini Commander or a 2 amp Blunami would fit in a Plymouth. You could have full features if you added a car like a boxcar tethered to the Plymouth not unlike a steam tender. That would have plenty of room for any command system of your choice including sound. Using tender trucks you could even have working electro couplers.
Pete
I'm not a fan of dragging a separate car paired to my locomotive, so that idea doesn't really appeal to me. However, the Trackmobile board is the way I'd go, it fits and works fine. There's even room for sound. 
Apparently, the BEEP chassis and the Lionchief only get along somewhat. My first conversion ran like a top for hours, so I stuck another LC board in another BEEP. That didn't go well at all!
The BEEP would run 20-30 feet and stop. As it ran for a brief time, the horn would randomly honk, and occasionally the crew talk would pop up. Once it stopped, you couldn't regain control until you cycled track power, then you could go another 20-30 feet. Since I had two BEEP's with the same style board in them, I just swapped the two boards. The problem stayed with the BEEP chassis!
OK, so it's a problem with the chassis and not the board. I decided to give the LC board a little more hold-up time for brief power interruptions, I added a 2200uf 35V cap across the existing 1000uf filter. That helped a little, but still basically the same issue. I added 1uf 50V caps across the motors, no change. I reasoned that with only three wheels conducting, maybe I had a power issue. I cleaned the rollers so they were whistle-clean with my Dremel. I swapped the traction tire wheelset for one that didn't have a tire so all the wheels were picking up. OK, that helped quite a bit, but it still didn't fix it! Now it would sometimes run for a few minutes but still let out an occasional horn honk and sometimes the crew talk. I would even get the bell turned on once in a while. I'm running out of options here, so I finally doused all the moving axles and rollers with DeOxit D5 and like magic it's been running 15-20 minutes without uttering a peep and no stoppages.
Moral of the story? Don't assume oddball behavior with one of these conversions is the board! 
Good to know. John are your two boards identical, ie for the same engine, or just the same layout but for different engines? Wondering if I can double head two engines if I use identical boards.
Pete
I have seen standard LC stuff double-headed with two identical boards, so that works. My boards were for different LC models, but identical board electrically. I know that Walter Matuch from RMT had three identical Camelback LC engines running in a triple-headed arrangement.
After playing with mine some more, its doing the same thing. Wheels, rollers and track are clean. The handheld is also losing connection from only 12 feet away. Engine selection light either starts to flash or goes off. Back to the drawing board.
Pete
Pete, apparently the LC board is very sensitive to any electrical noise from the power pickup. I guess the LC upgrade isn't the panacea I thought it was. I have my two running pretty well, but one still let's out a random horn honk ever 8-10 minutes. It ran for almost an hour without stopping, but it seems it's "on the edge".
And just when I thought we found the silver bullet.....🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️
Maybe something to do with the rigid chassis and short pick up spacing.
FWIW my RS3 has been running flawlessly.
Bob
@RSJB18 posted:And just when I thought we found the silver bullet.....🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️
Maybe something to do with the rigid chassis and short pick up spacing.
FWIW my RS3 has been running flawlessly.
I think it's a lot about the power continuity, I can't imagine other causes. I ran the boards on the bench for hours with no issues.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I think it's a lot about the power continuity, I can't imagine other causes. I ran the boards on the bench for hours with no issues.
Started playing around some more. I don’t think its related to track power. I added my transfer caboose with two more roller pickups and the problem persists. Also updated my new to me Remote using the Lionel LC Updater. Still no joy.
Interestingly I added a homemade Non Polarized Electrolytic across a motor that resulted in run away. No speed control like a TMCC engine not getting signal. Removing it and speed is normal.
The beat goes on.
Pete
@Norton posted:Started playing around some more. I don’t think its related to track power. I added my transfer caboose with two more roller pickups and the problem persists. Also updated my new to me Remote using the Lionel LC Updater. Still no joy.
Interestingly I added a homemade Non Polarized Electrolytic across a motor that resulted in run away. No speed control like a TMCC engine not getting signal. Removing it and speed is normal.
I added 1uf 50V NP caps across the motor, I didn't see any change in operation. Too big a cap across the motors might well result in a runaway. Surprising about the extra connections to the track not helping, I didn't expect that.
Since the problem exists with either the Universal Remote or the dedicated remote, I kinda' had discounted the remotes as the issue.
Looks to me like there is an issue with that board, not the Beep. With only the engine on the track, TMCC and DCS disconnected, it still had the problem. I taped the coupler thumbtacks and under the rollers to make sure they were not shorting. Used both my Z4000 and Post War ZW, nothing changed.
Finally used a non Bluetooth board for a Docksider and all is good other that the compressor sounds. Handy as all the connectors were the same with the same color code. Power from the Beep only, no trailing car with pickups.
My conclusion is the board is a dud. I even added another 47uf to the DC side of the input bridge.
Pete
@Norton posted:My conclusion is the board is a dud. I even added another 47uf to the DC side of the input bridge.
Well, I have three different boards, and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees. Since the symptoms changed big time depending on what chassis they were in, I can't say that I agree that the board is bad. However, it could be that all the boards have some inherent flaw that shows up more or less based on a host of factors, that I can't say.
Say John, what about Electric Railroad, can't you upgrade it with that?
Kyle - A fellow "Rail-Nerd"
Tried a third board for a 44 tonner and again it all works without issues. Only thing left to do that I can think of is reflow all the solder points. Kind of a shame as this board seems best suited for this Beep given the features and price point.
Board is labeled LCBB 5.0
If you have any engines with this board could you check how this 5 pin connector is wired? Volume is low and wondering if the speaker pin has to be wired to 5v or Gnd which both have pins here.
Pete
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@Norton posted:If you have any engines with this board could you check how this 5 pin connector is wired? Volume is low and wondering if the speaker pin has to be wired to 5v or Gnd which both have pins here.
Pete, I don't have any engines with the board, but I do have one of those boards for a future project. Lionel send me this in the place of the RCMC that I ordered, and they never asked for this board back.
The 5 pin connector you identified is for the switches, the speaker is the two pin connector next to it, it's clearly labeled SPKR. The SND pin is to mute the prime mover for diesels or the chuff for steam. AFAIK, there is no volume control for the sound, try a higher gain speaker. My sense, based on other Lionel board switch inputs, is open is the function enabled and grounded turns off the function. If you leave that unconnected, you'll have smoke enabled and prime mover enabled. The two connectors next to the BT modules are for board test and loading software. The only connectors you should need are the power, speaker, motor, and lights. I suspect smoke isn't enabled on may of these boards, I know the one I have the product doesn't appear to have smoke.
I do get sound with speaker in the speaker connector. Just wanted to make sure the connections on the 5 pin would have any effect. The 44 tonner board works with the app and volume is max on the app but its over twice the price of the board you started the thread with with no other benefit other than working with the app. Neither the sounds nor the volume are as good as that board either. Nothing to recommend it as a substitute.
Pete
@The-576-Guy posted:Say John, what about Electric Railroad, can't you upgrade it with that?
Kyle - A fellow "Rail-Nerd"
ERR doesn't offer any small command boards anymore, so that option is out for the BEEP or similar sized units. You can still buy small TMCC boards from Lionel parts, a couple of the variants are still available.
https://www.lionelsupport.com/search?keywords=rcm2
Here's the wiring diagram for them
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What about Blunami?
Kyle - A fellow "Rail-Nerd"
Blunami is an option, but even the 2200 costs $170, so it's getting out of the "inexpensive" upgrade arena, that's why the LC boards were so attractive.
Street prices on the Blunami 2200 are $135 and if you say the magic word it can be had for less. Don’t ask as I don’t know the current magic word but have gotten them for about $124.
Pete
@Norton posted:I do get sound with speaker in the speaker connector. Just wanted to make sure the connections on the 5 pin would have any effect. The 44 tonner board works with the app and volume is max on the app but its over twice the price of the board you started the thread with with no other benefit other than working with the app. Neither the sounds nor the volume are as good as that board either. Nothing to recommend it as a substitute.
Probably true Pete, it's why I never bought one, and this one just fell into my lap, so I was curious about it. If I find an Army Beep shell, this one is the US Army RS-3 board.
@Norton posted:Street prices on the Blunami 2200 are $135 and if you say the magic word it can be had for less. Don’t ask as I don’t know the current magic word but have gotten them for about $124.
I still prefer a real remote, so I'll keep looking for options.
Truthfully, the Lionel RCM2 and a sound board works pretty well for many upgrades.
Mine (flakey) is a Santa Fe RS3. I would be surprised if they are different other than the address. That said we have a club member with three identical early RS3s that seem to work fine even when all lashed up. Mechanically they are a disaster though. Truck mounted motors and cheese whiz gears.
Pete
Walter Matuch of RMT has a few LC conversions that run fine, don't know why we're having so many problems, must be the phase of the moon! 
It would be good to know what board he is using. Three of the four different boards I bought all work, no problem. Only this RS3 1st gen LC board acts up.
BTW I did reflow as many of the solder points I could. Nothing appeared like they needed it. Last step I will try and find something else to try it in.
Pete
Have a pair of Weaver EL U-25bs with LC NYC RS-3 transplant. Running fine.
Working on a roster of Weaver SD-40s repainted to CNJ ex-B&O. 3 have same LC (CNJ RS-3) so can run with same LC remote. Other 3 use different LC donor (DEL LACK). This way have 2 sets of 3 SD-40s each. Running fine.
Walter
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@Norton posted:It would be good to know what board he is using. Three of the four different boards I bought all work, no problem. Only this RS3 1st gen LC board acts up.
BTW I did reflow as many of the solder points I could. Nothing appeared like they needed it. Last step I will try and find something else to try it in.
Pete
I haven't tried these boards in anything but a BEEP, but given the fact that tinkering with the chassis and not the board appears to have fixed them for me, I still don't think most of the problems are with the board. I ran the problem chassis for an hour without a hiccup, when I started with the same board, it wouldn't run more than a minute, and usually less.
After Walter posted that this LC RS3 board works in other engines, I put it in a Williams F3.
This with a single power truck and pickup roller. Worked without a hiccup. Not sure what it is about the Beep that would cause problems. I have run it with lights and speaker disconnected so it comes down to the motors or the way power, in particular outside rail, gets to the board. Resistance readings are close to zero??
Pete
Well, the thing that fixed my problem BEEP was DeoxIT D5 on the wheel axles and the roller axles. Obviously, this is a sample of one, but that was what ended up fixing the problem for me.
I can't imagine running with a single pickup roller, virtually every switch would stop you in your tracks! 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, the thing that fixed my problem BEEP was DeoxIT D5 on the wheel axles and the roller axles. Obviously, this is a sample of one, but that was what ended up fixing the problem for me.
I can't imagine running with a single pickup roller, virtually every switch would stop you in your tracks!
Its not going to stay that way. It was just a test that required the least amount of connectors. Also to prove a point about power to the engine.
FWIW the Beep is running better tethered to a car with pickups. Its still far from perfect running by itself. I removed the wheelsets, burnished the bearings at the contact points with the metal bracket along with burnishing the bracket. Did little to improve things. I may keep this for myself but would not use this board for use by others.
The F3s will get a different LC board.
Pete
I do admit, this has dampened my enthusiasm for doing this upgrade for anyone, I don't need stuff like this coming back several times!
@Norton Pete- I used a New Haven RS3 board for my recent project. I've had no problems to date but then again I haven't run it for more that 15-20 min at a time.
This is a LC/bluetooth board. Here's the parts list.
I couldn't get the 5-pin plug to do anything. Tried all combinations for sound on/off with no luck. I did use the 5v output for a cab light. Since I can turn the sound off with the app, I moved on and didn't fuss with it further.
I have noticed that the sound levels are lower on these boards than on full TMCC or PS boards. With the LC app, volume can be adjusted but anything below full volume gets lost in the noise of wheels clicking on the track joints.
I'm still willing to do at least one more conversion of a conventional loco with a LC board with hopefully successful results.
Bob
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Bob, the board John and I have are from an earlier RS3. I have a board like yours, used in a 44 tonner that does work without spurious outputs. Volume is lower than the earlier board and it cost over twice as much but at least it works.
Pete
