Restoring a Lionel PRR Prewar Steam Switcher & All Things Related to Keeping Them Running! Spring 2024

Photos didn't come through. Perhaps ask around when Sitcher Saturday rolls around?

Thanks, EL Classico. Maybe I'll just try reposting it.

Tom

OK, I think they are all there now. The last photo at the end was supposed to be closer to the top, but the last time I tried to edit it out, I lost all of the others, so I am not going to mess with it again!

Hope the wiring is less stressful than the picture posting!

Tom

That is a cool little loco !!  I have never seen one-that I know of but will look at the upcoming Greenberg Show.  Never knew they used a motor set up like that. Unfortunately I can't help with parts.  Good luck.

How are you going to deal with the e-unit?

This is a shot of the cab of my #231 which shows those nuts that screw on...still hoping somebody out there has 2 they can spare.

Tom

David Johnston posted:

How are you going to deal with the e-unit?

Say a prayer that everything is intact. The #231 looked pretty much just as bad. In that case, it was all intact and I just needed to wrap some electrical tape around it and it was good to go.

Tom

MNCW posted:

This is a shot of the cab of my #231 which shows those nuts that screw on...still hoping somebody out there has 2 they can spare.

Tom

I have seen those sorts of screws? Bolts? Whatever they are in German made clocks. I do not have one around at the moment, but I am pretty sure that widens your search field a bit

Wow, I had never seen the insides of one of these before; thanks for all the photos! I was very surprised to see that strange little e-unit--I have the 1989 reissue, and that just has the standard e-unit, mounted horizontally, with a return spring. If you can't get the original working, perhaps one of those will fit.

I'm sure Dennis Waldron -Just Trains will have them.

There are a lot of interchangeable parts between the 227 family of prewar switchers and the 1989 reissue (18000), but the motor and e-unit are not amoung them.  The 227 e-unit (OO1E-185) is from the prewar OO line of locos. The 227 family of switchers is the only place it is used in O gauge that I know of. In my opinion it is superior to the standard three position O gauge e-unit.  It is certainly much easier to work on.  The problem with it is there are no parts available. The OO e-unit complete is available from several sources, but it is not cheep.

There was an article written "Lionel's #8976  - Wiring and Operation" by William J. Krone which describes how to rewire all these locos and including wiring diagrams.  I have a copy of it, but my copy does not indicate what publication it is from or the date. It might be the TCA  Quartery.  Maybe the TCA library could help.

 The missing brush tube caps may be either the 700E-305 or the 400E-115. There are two different types and I can not tell which is which. One screws on the outside of the tube and the other into the inside. They were used on the 400E, 700E, 763E and 227 family of switchers. They should not be too hard of find. I had one loco which had washers sholdered on the ends of the brush tubes to keep the brushes in. 

Thanks everyone. 

Chuck--I've bought things from Dennis before but somehow forgot him as a source, thanks for the reminder.

David-- Thanks for mentioning the Krone article. I have that in my library of books/articles. With all the damage this loco absorbed (substantial enough to knock off the headlight and put a good dent and what can best be described as a tear/rip in the cab roof), the wiring is just one thing to worry about. These are pretty tough little buggers so I'm fairly optimistic. 

Tom 

great project Tom.

David Johnston posted:

... The missing brush tube caps may be either the 700E-305 or the 400E-115. There are two different types and I can not tell which is which. One screws on the outside of the tube and the other into the inside. They were used on the 400E, 700E, 763E and 227 family of switchers...

David,

 I remember seeing a parts list for the 227-series locomotives and the part was listed as 700E-305 Brush Holder Screw. There is also a "Brush holding Retaining nut" (part# 400E-118, which is maybe internal) on the same parts list which I had originally identified in my original post which I thought I needed, but if it screws on (which it does) I guess it is the "Brush Holder Screw." Thanks for helping me to clarify that so I know what to ask for! 

 El Classico mentioned German clocks earlier which is actually what I thought of as my friend and I started taking this loco apart the other day...to see the craftsmanship of the 1930's, with so many little, well-made, intricate parts.

Tom 

it seems that even in a basketcase condition, those switchers get a healthy asking price.

The parts list for the 227, shows 700E-35 as the brush tube cap. The 400E-118 is the nut that holds the brush tube to the brush plate. Hence if you cannot find part 700E-35, you can swap the brush tubes out to the Bild-A Loco style. Jeff Kane has the Bild -A-Loco brush tubes and the nut on his list.

Tin

As best as I have been able to figure out, Lionel changed from the 400E style brush tube to the 700E style brush tube when they started using brushes with shunts on them.  Maybe some time in 1938.  The brush tube with the cap gave them a way to clamp the washer at the top of the brush spring that the shunt is attached to.  This gives a good electrical path from the shunt into the brush tube.   I have not seen the 700E-35 part number before. I wounded if it is a typo of the 700E-305 part number.  There are lots of errors in the part lists.

The 227 family of locomotives are great locos.  It is too bad they did not make it into the post war era.  I recently ran into a set of wheels which I am sure came off a 227 type loco.  They did not look right and after studying them I discovered they had been insulated for two rail operation. The flanges and tread were scale size, even smaller that the tires that came on the 701. They had the cam on the back that operated the valve gear.   I wonder what happened to the loco they came off of. 

Now you have piqued my interest in these locos except they are too expensive for my budget unless I find a beater to fix up. Interesting thread. Always more to learn. Thanks

David Johnston posted:

  I wonder what happened to the loco they came off of. 

Yes, too bad our locomotives don't come with the histories of who owned them and for how long. You rarely know whether you are owner #2 or #32. 

I've said this before on other threads, that most of my locomotives are around 77 years old. Properly maintained, they can easily go another 77 years or more. Knowing that they were so well made and manufactured here in the US is a big part of the appeal, at least to me. 

Tom 

jim pastorius posted:

Now you have piqued my interest in these locos except they are too expensive for my budget unless I find a beater to fix up. Interesting thread. Always more to learn. Thanks

In my original post, I forgot to mention one of the drivers has a slightly bent flange and a few rods are dented, too. I think they are more cosmetic issues than anything that will impact its ability to run well.

When the drivers and frames were scrubbed pretty well it actually started looking pretty good (picture #8 from the top)...but oh those wires! Well, I said I am an optimist! 

Tom

jim pastorius posted:

Now you have piqued my interest in these locos except they are too expensive for my budget unless I find a beater to fix up. Interesting thread. Always more to learn. Thanks

I know what you mean,,,even all beat up they go for a good price.

Tom,

      Send me your address. I still have a vial full of them.  Harry 

Tom, we just walked around all the antique shops in Fredericksburg VA but no luck finding you a tender, sorry! :-)

Hi Rich,

  Thanks. I think I will be OK on the tender. The guy who sold me the locomotive said he was pretty sure he had a tender, but had to dig it out.  If you have any train stores with prewar parts, if you don't mind asking, I'm still having trouble with the brush holding "cap" that screws on and holds the brushes in (need 2 of them for a #227 loco). 

Thanks, 

 Tom 

Harry Henning posted:

Tom,

      Send me your address. I still have a vial full of them.  Harry 

Harry,

  Thanks very much. Just sent you an email. Sorry I did not notice your post coming to my rescue! 

Tom 

Going out today.  Harry

Harry,

   You are a life saver and a locomotive saver. On the other hand, now I need to deal with the wiring fiasco!

Seriously, thanks very much!

Tom

MNCW posted:

Harry,

   You are a life saver and a locomotive saver. On the other hand, now I need to deal with the wiring fiasco!

Seriously, thanks very much!

Tom

So whatall is our new wiring fiasco?

The wiring fiasco was the same as in the original picture with unattached wires and the loose wires surrounding the coil. As long as I did not have my parts, I did not need to deal with it yet!

Tom

If it is too much to handle and you don't want the stress, I can take it off your hands as a favor.  Would $100  cut it ??

Jim,

  I've considered your offer and decided I will "Keep Calm & Carry On!"

 Tom

Just trying to help !!

well in the spirit of the holiday, you could send it to me, I'll even pay for the shipping. I'm sure there will be many sleepless nights for me ahead (I'm on midnights this week anyway).........

UPDATE: I got all the parts that I need so far, a big thanks to Harry Henning again for the elusive brush caps. So, after a couple of hours soldering wires and doing some more cleaning of the drivers/rollers, I was able to get the e-unit to get moving and heard some humming. Unfortunately, I never got the motor to actually budge. I will try again over the weekend.

Any suggestions? Keep in mind that this was pretty filthy and who knows when it last ran. Reminds me of the 1990's when I used to go to a train store in Tuckahoe (and later Scarsdale), NY, Trent's Trains, and the owner used to liberally spray WD-40 on any motor which wouldn't run and usually had good results. Would that help at all? 

Tom 

I am no fan of WD-40 so I would say "No".

Isn't this similar to the 1980s Lionel repro of the PRR B6?  I am not well versed in the part numbers, but it seems that 701, 708, and some of the 220- series all use the same major parts?

Mine is now 2-railed, and has 717 tender trucks, and is a lighter shade of Brunswick green.  It, too, had a bent cab, and I was unable to straighten it.  Some delicate fiberglas work fixed it - you cannot tell.

I can't post pictures, but here is its URL:

[URL=http://s667.photobucket.com/user/bobturner_trains/media/Steam%20Locomotives/700s001.jpg.html][IMG]http://i667.photobucket.com/al...omotives/700s001.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Hi Tom. Good to hear of your progress with the 227. Great little loco. I do not know if you took the e unit apart yet or not. If not that would be my next step.  There is a little brass shoulder screw with a nut on the end of it.  Remove that screw and the E unit drum will come off the contact plate. Then you can clean up the contacts on the contact plate. Be really careful with the contacts on the drum. They are spring material and are silver plated. Clean them with something non abrasive so not to remove the silver. The black silver sulfide is conductive, so it does not need to be removed. The silver acts a lubricant helping to get the drum to move. The contacts are held onto the drum with tiny drive screws.  Lionel had the presence of mind to drill the drive screw holes all the way through the Bakelite, so with a very small punch you can drive the drive screws out and remove the contacts.  This would allow you to reshape them. Also I have seen where a new contact was soldered on. I have also seen new home made contacts. With the drum removed you can jumper ajacent contacts to get the motor to run and rule out motor problems. 

The wiring should go from the collector rollers to brush plate on the contact opposite the switch that turns the e unit on and off. There should also be a wire directly from the motor field to this point. The other end of the motor field should go to upper rear contact on the e unit.  The lower forward e unit contact should have a wire coming from the e unit coil and then ground to the loco frame. The two brush wires should go to the upper forward and and lower rear contacts on the e unit.   That is all the wire needed to make the motor run. 

As for WD-40, it drys sticky in time. I would never use it on a train.  The CRC contact cleaner has been recommended on this site. It is what I use.  Let us know how it comes out. 

David Johnston posted:

Hi Tom. Good to hear of your progress with the 227. Great little loco...

The wiring should go from the collector rollers to brush plate on the contact opposite the switch that turns the e unit on and off. There should also be a wire directly from the motor field to this point. 

Hi David,

  Thanks very much. I will need to re-check the wiring. So, for the upper tab on the motor on the engineer's side, there should be 2 wires soldered on there? I think I only had one...for the collector rollers. Where does the second wire go to, from that same tab to where? 

Thanks again, Tom

Tom, from that upper tab on the engineers side of the brush plate there is the wire from the collector roller, a wire from the motor field, a buss bar going to the e unit shut off switch, and a socket for a wire going to the tender that powers the bell. The field wire is a single varnished strand coming from the end of the field just above the tab. 

Boy, I'd enjoy this project.

Definitely no WD40 for motors. I use these. The Magnum force I use on my R/C car motors and it really cleans the grime on motors in old locos I've rescued. The CRC I use for general maintanance. 

In the attached photo you can see the red wire coming from the roller collector. The green wire above is going from one end of the field to the e unit. Look closely and you can see the black sleeve over the second field wire going to the same terminal that the red wire is on. 

David, Got it. Thanks for the explanation. 

Tom

Sounds like you're making some good progress Tom!

Bob

It will be interesting on the e-unit with the windings in disarray. This is a unit that was also adapted for OO gauge I believe. I have restored many of these and have some parts. 

I'm sort of at a standstill now, with no additional progress. I plan on looking at this next Friday at my friend's house, as we may need to rewire everything. I still hope that all goes well and I don't need more parts.

In the meantime, if I can ask a stupid question to JAGRICK, David Johnston or Harry Hennings... if I want to test the motor with running two wires from the center rail and ground rail directly to the motor, where exactly can I attach the wires? If you can use engineer's side and fireman's side to clarify which side, it would make my life easier. Thanks.

Tom

One wire to a brush, second wire to field winding (on body) and then from field winding to other brush tube. These are robust motors and will probably be fine. 

Tom, to get the motor to run you need to connect power to one brush, connect the other brush to one motor field lead, and connect the other motor field lead to the other power wire. Looking in the cab from the tender what you see is the brush plate.  Above the brush plate is the motor field coil.   The leads for the field come out on the engineers side. One goes to a terminal on the brush plate, the other goes forward to the e unit.   The brush holders are on the lower edge of the brush plate.  They each should have a lug that comes to each side of the brush plate. Normally those lugs would be connected to yellow wires that go forward to the e unit. 

When connecting the motor to power wires, it does not matter which wire goes to the brush or field. It is AC and the wires have no polarity.  They are interchangeable.  

Connect one power wire to either brush lug.  Use a jumper wire to connect the other brush lug to one of the field leads.  Connect the other field lead to the other power wire.   The motor should run, but it must have good brushes in it.  To reverse the direction reverse the power wire and jumper to the field on the brush lugs. 

I would suggest you take the motor out.   With all the wires disconnected it only requires removing the two mounting screws on the front. To rewire the loco the motor has to come out as the rear collector terminal is under the drive shaft. With the motor out you can remove the screws that hold the gear unit cover on. This will let you remove the cover , which has the e unit mounted to it. With the cover off , and the gasket if it stays with the frame, you can lift the worm shaft out. The bearings will come with it. Now you can get to the rear collector lug. 

This may sound like a lot of work to get to a lug to solder on a new wire, but this gives you access to the interior of the gear box, which is probably full of very old hard grease, which needs to be cleaned out and replaced. With the worm shaft out you can remove, clean and relubricate the bearings on one end of the shaft.  To get the bearings off the other end the gear needs to be removed by loosing the set screw and tapping it off. The things that look like washers are actually hardened and ground thrust washers. The side the ball bearings are running against need to continue to be the wear side. 

The weak point in this loco is the fiber gear on the end of the worn shaft. It's condition will determine the future of the loco.  I have never found any sold as spare parts, but they might be out there somewhere. I also remove the gear on the motor shaft so I can remove the armature from the motor to clean it and get oil in to the front bearing.  There is a second bearing on the motor shaft that sits on the commutator.  Keep track of that as it needs to go back on.  If the set screws in the gears are slotted so they can be removed with a straight blade screw driver, they may break when being removed. Replace them with set screws with a recessed hex drive.  That will make life so much easier.  

David,

  You are quite a resource. Thanks for all the info.

Tom

Here is a short clip that shows the clearances and ease of operation of the OO e unit used in the 227

David, Thanks for posting that. I hope to start posting updated photos in the next few weeks.

Tom

thanks, I've never seen that before.

REVISED!

Before I get into the nitty gritty details, I need to give "Special Thanks" to 3 people for going above and beyond with this project:

1)Harry Henning and his folks are great to deal with and are so honest, it is refreshing. No wonder why his store has been around so long.

2)David Johnston must have worked in a prior life at the Lionel factory assembling prewar steam switchers. How he knows what he knows is beyond me. I could not thank him enough for his support.

3)My friend Bill who has the unenviable job of helping me out when things go wrong with my switchers.

(honorable mention to Myron Biggar for the set of screwdrivers he gave me at a Greenburg train show at Yonkers Raceway, back in the 1990's)

I recently got back my "basket case" of a locomotive from Harry Henning. Harry had the lower half of the locomotive assembly. Now keep in mind that this locomotive was severely abused by a prior owner and it needed lots of work. Some of what was needed included: rewinding the coil for the e-unit, I believe all of the wiring was replaced, the drivers were dinged and dented needing replacement, the idler gears were shot and needed replacement...and that may just be a fraction of what Harry and his folks worked on. Luckily, I had a donor locomotive that I bought years ago if ever needed for such a project. The donor steam switcher donated drivers and idler gears.

While that was happening, my friend Bill, who helps me with the less severe types of repairs did some great work on the cab roof. The cab roof was no longer "round" most like from a drop or several. It also had a rip/tear on one edge. Bill hammered out the rip and then we figured that we should try to reinforce the roof. Looking around his basement, I noticed a familiar shape and asked, how about this tuna can? So, Bill used tin snips to cut a small section out of the can and then we epoxied it to the underside of the cab roof. I wonder if the cats in my house will have an unnatural attraction to this particular locomotive now!

Tonight...Upon receiving the lower assembly back from Harry Henning, I still needed to do some minor work. Tonight was a pretty big step forward. I had to flip a plate under the e-unit, I wired the headlight to the new wire Harry left for me, I drilled out the repro 653 number plate for the new smokebox assembly and replaced the 653 number plate with a new old stock #227 number plate which is more representative of the vintage nature of this locomotive.

So, how does it run? I had emailed David Johnston earlier today and he gave me some more advice. The last sentence summed it all up. He said:

Should run like a Swiss watch.

By the way, she does! I could not have been happier.

More to come in the next few weeks:

• Putting all the rods back on
• Putting the front smokebox assembly on
• Putting the boiler shell on
• Putting on the front pilot/steps
• Running it with the #2232B tender purchased to be its mate
• Replacing the missing marker lights on the boiler

So, summing up... here we have a locomotive that is in its mid to late 70's as far as age, made in the USA when this type of craftsmanship was indeed like a Swiss watch and it now ready to start another 70 years of operating.

Thanks again for everyone's interest and support.

Tom

Edit from Spring 2024- It was around this post that we used a Krylon can of black (flat) if I remember correctly...taping off all but the cab roof. So, the top of the cab roof got a coating to cover the repair we made. In one of the photos below (2 down from here), you can see the lines of the tuna can we epoxied on the underside of the cab roof. Also, if it gets confusing to follow, I changed by OGR handle from "MNCW" to "PRR8976."

lookin good Tom

Thanks Dave.

Nice !!  Nothing like bringing vintage back to life.  Enjoy !!

Thanks for the heads up on this thread Tom. Anything mechanically intricate like this is always of great interest for me. A train, just that much more so. I hadnt seen one of those little engines up close and "exploded" like that since grade school !  

Roman posted:

Boy, I'd enjoy this project.

Definitely no WD40 for motors. I use these. The Magnum force I use on my R/C car motors and it really cleans the grime on motors in old locos I've rescued. The CRC I use for general maintanance. 

Where can I get these products?, Thanks.

CRC is sold side by side with many automobile supplies. IMO, everything Ive used from them has been a high quality product.

Cosmetic Work- December 28-29, 2016

I went over my friend Bill's house to get some more work done on my switcher yesterday. Prior to that, I had ordered 8 handrail stanchions to replace 7 broken and 1 missing stanchions, from Harry Henning. I admit, I should have counted how many I needed since I lucked out and used every last one (Harry, if you are listening I could use 8 more of the short version handrail stanchions!).

Prior to all of this work, I had given the boiler shell another good cleaning, this time with Zud and a toothbrush which did a pretty good job of getting things mostly all cleaned up. Bill also used rubbing alcohol and Q-tips for the final cleaning. Judging by the dirt still being removed, both of these methods definitely helped to give the boiler shell a nice clean surface. 

So, here are some pictures...

Pulling out the broken stanchions that could be easily removed.

Drilling out the ones that could not easily be twisted out. Prior to drilling, my friend Bill filed the broken piece as flush to the boiler as possible, then used a hole punch to help guide the drill bit to drill out the remainder of the stanchion (multiply that by 7!). 

After the stanchions were installed, we opted for using a (Krylon) clear coat to balance out the work previously done on the cab roof with the boiler and the smoke box door. We used a turntable substitute/"Lazy Susan" to make the spraying process easier. I liked the clear coat idea since I really did not want to repaint everything and cover up all of the original paint and the original cab numbering. See what you think...

Today (December 29th), I used 20 gauge galvanized steel wiring to replace the handrails. 

While visiting, I was able to run the locomotive for the first time with its adopted tender...

More work to be done in the new year includes replacing the broken marker lights, reattaching the rods that were temporarily removed and reattaching the boiler shell. 

Happy New Year everyone.

Tom 

Before someone asks, here is the Krylon "Non-yellowing Clear Satin" we used. I could not have been happier how it all came out. 

Tom 

Looks good !!  I like the original look. nice !!

Jim,

 Thanks for your thoughts. I do have a rubber stamp that I could have used for the cab numbers. My rule of thumb is, if they are even slightly visible, try to keep the original paint and numbers.

Tom

Nice work so far.  My brother owned the same pre-war switcher when we were kids.  Beautiful loco.  

Krylon is by far the best spray paint on the market.  It has always worked first time every time for me with excellent results.  It's a pity they don't sell it at Home Depot and Lowes.  

I buy Krylon at Lowes....

I have used Rustoleum  flat & semi gloss on various projects and it has done well. the latest is my Lionel standard gauge 218  tank car that I stripped and fixed up. Protects the  bare tinplate and makes it look  pretty good.

 Original Rustoleum looks like old thick tin plate paint. It's curing time is another issue. Don't be in a hurry

Krylon good paint, likely best for the loco finishes.

But, I'm best with Dulicolor.

Testors is thin; so great for detail. Lots of thin corner cut coats, then a finish coat.

Adriatic posted:

 Original Rustoleum looks like old thick tin plate paint. It's curing time is another issue. Don't be in a hurry

Krylon good paint, likely best for the loco finishes.

Yes, that's another reason I liked the Krylon. It dried relatively quickly and I could handle it to put it in a box to bring it back home.

Thanks everyone for your comments, Dan, Dave, Jim (again) and Adriatic. 

Tom

Steamer posted:

I buy Krylon at Lowes....

Interesting.  Must be our different locations.  I've tried all of the Home Depots and Lowes in my area, Fort Washington and surrounding burbs, and none of them carry Krylon.  

must be Dan. Walmart sells Krylon as well.

Tom:

What a wonderful story. Your tale is an example of what this hobby is all about.

Thanks for sharing it with us along the way.

Bob

Hi Bob,

  Thanks for your support as well as everyone else throughout this project. It is very much appreciated.  The next updates will hopefully happen this weekend.

 Tom

More News Today...January 8th...

I was able to scrape together 2 more stanchions for the pilot area, put in the last railing (on the pilot), attached the pilot/front steps, put the boiler shell on and attached 2 rods previously removed while repairs were being made. 

Overall, everything went well...a few laps around on my workbench and a little ozone in the air! 

One small issue that one of the screws holding the rods on came loose...any thoughts from David or Harry or any other repair folks about putting a dab of crazy glue in the screw hole to prevent the screw from backing out?  Thanks in advance for the advice. 

Tom 

I've used super glue on screws and loose drivers. holds tight, but you can still remove the screws or drivers just fine. Looking good Tom.

Hi Tom, engine really looks nice.  For screws that will not stay in I use purple Loctite, their  no. 222.  It is low strength so you can get them out later.  If threads are gone so screw will not tighten I use helicoils. Not available in many sizes including 4-36, but it is available in some pitches for #2 and #3 screws.  Some of these items are available on Amazon. Otherwise I get them from McMaster Carr or MSC. 

I have a 726 RR that has that screw problem and ready to trash it.  I will try Loctite. Nothing to lose.

Thanks guys.

Tom

jim pastorius posted:

I have a 726 RR that has that screw problem and ready to trash it.  I will try Loctite. Nothing to lose.

let me know when you toss it....I like dumpster diving....

Tom,

Your locomotive looks great!  I really enjoy reading a thread like this.

Henry,

 Thanks very much. 

Tom 

Do it right and use lock tight. And start with a light or medium one.

 But if it's stubborn go to Red. Just a thread or two of red at the head/shoulder area. A little heat will always soften it enough for removal.

Save the super glue for if "red" doesn't hold it

THis 726 was the first O gauge I bought when I got back in to railroading. this loose screw has been an issue for a long time. Bought all new parts for that side and kept it oiled but keeps unthreading.   Off my layout now, just sitting. I will try Loctite, will get some tomorrow and if that doesn't work it goes to the scrap line (Steamer !)  

Jim, Dave/Steamer is a good guy who gives a home to any beaten up steamer...it could not go to a better place (if the glue does not work). 

Tom 

Yes, he, Mitch and I are all dumpster divers.  Will see how it works out.

If threads are partially stripped, an inexpensive solution is to put some copper threads in the hole and then insert the screw.  You can get very fine copper strands out of almost any stranded wire, but look for 22-24 gauge.

On the paint - I used to love Krylon.  Then about five years ago they changed the formula and the nozzle, making it useless for airplane parts and model train parts. So I went to Rustoleum, and for a while that was satisfactory.  Their new formula dried as fast as the older Krylon.

Now every single can of Rustoleum I buy clogs on its third or fourth usage.  I have tried everything - compressed air back into the can, cleaning the nozzle with very fine wire - everything.  I have a huge stack of mostly full useless Rustoleum cans.  I am considering shipping them to the company president.

I am currently having really good luck with "Dupli-Color".  When I want really, really good results, I mix my own and use an air brush or a Binks model 18.  But sometimes a good rattle can is indispensable!

jim pastorius posted:

Yes, he, Mitch and I are all dumpster divers.  Will see how it works out.

Hey, I want "Honorable Mention" in the Dumpster Diver Club.  If I wasn't a "diver," we would not have a topic here! 

Tom 

and who are you again Sir?

You are right-you are a member  !!  It includes all rights and privileges of DD.

Bob2 take them back to the store, they should exchange the cans for other ones, especially if they see it isn't a random occurrence.

I hope Tom does not mind if I use a little space at the bottom of his thread.  I saw a  227 type shell for sale recently, which did not look to bad. I have a frame with wheels that I thought I might be able to get working again, so I got the shell and am now three days deep into the project.  There was more missing and more needing repair than I thought, but I think I will be able to bring another 0-6-0 back to life.

The motor frame had three plugs on the brush plate, which means it was either a 231 or 232. I do not have a tender that will work with a 232, so I changed the brush plate to a two plug unit so it will be either a 227 or 228.  The boiler front was missing, but I found a usable 228 front in my junk box.  All it needed was a new head light lens and a new grab iron in front.  

The commutator was real rough so I wanted to sand and lap it smooth and flat.  The pinion is held on the armature shaft with a slotted set screw.  I was unable to get to budge and did not want to split the slotted set screw. That would be a real bear to get out.  There was enough clearance with the brush plate removed to lap the commutator in place.  My fingers are still sore from rotating the armature by holding on to the pinion gear.  It was low adjacent to all the slots, but came out really nice. One of the worm shaft bearings had an oval shaped bore, so it was replaced. All cleaned and greased up, put the motor on and ran it for a while. Everything ran smooth and quite. 

Then the side rods and valve gear went back on.  I found one of the cams that makes the valve gear wok was not working properly on the gear side.  But I did not want to pull a wheel to get it to work, so I will live with that. The e-unit with the engine did not work, and I had another e unit that did not work, but inputting the two together, and making only one piece, I now have one eunit that works well.  That is as far as I got tonight. It has been a fun project.

excellent  solutions  to a tuff  problem

Hi David, No problem with you adding posts and pictures of your locomotive..in fact, I would be glad if you can post more as you progress! Explain a little more on what you did with the e-unit, if you can. Did you need to rewind the coil? 

Tom 

definitely need more pics Dave! and be sure to show your switcher off on Switcher Saturday.

Since David shot some life into this thread, I did some more cosmetic work today to secure the handrail stanchions and my locomotive's bolt that was backing out that holds the side rod in place.  Also had the locomotive take several laps with its new tender partner, a #2232B. 

Just need to put on the marker lights, so I would declare it 98% done at this point. 

Tom 

Very nice !   Well done. Nothing like a good "rescue" job !

looks great Tom!

Thanks Jim and Dave.

Tom

A prototype

Here's a question which might be anathema to some of you... retrofitting postwar-style knuckle couplers.

I know LTI released the 6-18000 in 1989 which was made from the prewar switcher tooling and it had knuckle couplers.  As far as I know this is the only reissue.  Were any other changes made to make this possible?  Were these knuckle couplers unique to 6-18000, or can couplers from a postwar 0-4-0 like the 1615 be used?  Thanks!

Hi Ted, I know the front steps/pilots were a different design from the prewar to the 1615. The front steps pilot to the 1989 re-release looks very similiar if not identical to the 1615. There was also an article in Toy Trains magazine years ago about converting prewar box couplers to post war knuckle couplers. I try to keep my prewar switchers with the couplers they came with (mostly the prewar box, but a few with knuckle couplers) and this way I have some flexibility...but that is just my preference. 

Tom