Rick's 26' X 40' RailRoad Layout Plan

That looks awesome! Wish I had that kind of space.

Outstanding - Well thought out plan. Thanks for sharing Ken, and Rick I hope to see the build progress. Enjoy!

Nice plan but would you mind telling us who Rick is????

Where does it go and what does it do?    I see no staging or interchange with out railroads.    What is Rick's desire for operation?    Or does he just plan to run trains around?     Fine to do a display layout for just running trains, but there is a lot of track there for that kind of layout in my opinion.

Wow tough room. 

In my view, much better than 500 feet of track in a 5x9 layout.

IMHO, it's a GREAT layout.  If I had the room, I'd build something very similar to that. 

For how I like to run trains and what I model, that layout is a 10 out of 10.

The gent's name is Rick Arestad, a forum member.

PRRJIM:  As to the purpose of the RR,  to have fun and enjoy the hobby.   Not every model RR needs to be a reduced/compressed version of a prototype RR subdivision, this RR is not modeled on any prototype.   Folks differ in their views about what a train layout is and how prototypical these toys need to be in order to enjoy them.   This sort of topic has been discussed on the forum before, with differing opinions.   Perhaps it boils down to the level of abstraction (and imagination) each individual prefers for their layout.

• yes, one purpose is to run trains.
• But you can also see that there are two stations and a station platform: passenger trains can run from station to station, and make additional loops in between.  Houses or apartments for each pretend passenger are not needed, nor are cars and taxis and highways to get the pretend passengers from station to home to work required, nor jobs for each of them to work in the city or suburbs.   
• There are also eight industry sidings on the main lines.   There are four involving coal - a coal loader and unloader, and a power plant, and a mine, so a "prototypical" movement of coal from the mine to the yard, then out to the power plant with empties back could be done. Diverting some coal to the coal unloader for fun.   
• Rick will be able to make up and run trains and service industries on the spurs, moving cars from the yard to the spurs, and then in another run, pull the cars back to the yard.  Abstractly "modeling" the function of real railroads.
• It would be a small feat of imagination to pair-up industries in the two towns, so one can pull a car from one industry, drop it in the yard, then make up a train to take them to the other town.  Lots of possibilities for Rick to explore.
• There are other sidings for animated accessories - milk unloader and cattle car pen.   

Sure, one could claim (for instance) that you must not have a cattle car and pen which loads and unloads the same cattle into the pen because its not realistic or prototypical, but its a fun accessory.  No abstract representation of a ranch, or meat packing plant, or meat market, or dining customers are needed in order to enjoy it.

A spur or siding could certainly be added to abstractly model a connecting railroad, I have done that on other plans.   But that would still be just an imagination idea, whether the spur is there or not.   There would not actually be a connected railroad even if the connection spur exists, it would have to be modeled in the imagination, but would really just be a place to store some cars, and then pull them back to the yard again later.    For this plan, perhaps a connection could be added to an imaginary connecting RR coming off the right side of the yard and running to the right beneath the "high line" could be added, might be fun to do.

Anyway, this is the kind of 3-rail O-gauge RR Rick wanted, and I think it is perfectly fine, I would love to have this in my basement! 

As a more practical consideration, Rick wanted relatively broad curves and turnouts, looking forward to running some longish passenger trains.   I thought about squeezing a second yard into the space (in order to run trains between division points), but decided it would mean deleting a town and tightening the curves for a more compressed layout.   And the runs between yards would be pretty small  Always a trade-off.   We initially talked about a shelf above for a longer run, and we discussed return loops so one could have a point-to-point that allows trains to turn for continuous running.

-Ken

You make a lot sense including only one  yard.   John Armstrong emphasized in his many books, that generally (there are always exceptions),  you should include only one of each element, and do it well, rather than including 2 or more and making each one too compressed or reduced to be interesting.

I don't fault your approach for a display layout.   If that is what is wanted, that is fine and will be enjoyable.    I was just asking.   There seemed to be quite a few elements pointing both directions in the plan - it was not quite apples, and then not quite oranges as they say.  

My interest is more toward operations, so I always look at a plan to see what the trains are going to do.    Generally my concept is a spur or two as interchange tracks, and then a yard, and finally quite a few industries, since I like switching them.     The interchanges can be expanded to include whole trains with locos or just be a string of cars.     The operating plan is to put a train of outbound cars together in the yard, and run to the interchange.   There the outbound cars are exchanged for the inbound ones, and the train returns to the yard.     The cars are then classified by destinations served by the local freights - could be by town, or type industry etc - based on what the operator has envisioned.     Locals are then assembled and go out to the towns and exchange setouts for pickups.    They return the pickups to the yard and the cycle begins again.      This concept can be so small as it is all one train and the yard is an engine house and a passing siding.    Or it could be big enough to include many trains all doing different things.    

I do notice you do not have a yard lead separate from the main, and it looks like to me the single track loop is not connected to the rest of the RR.    A separate lead allows the yard to be worked without interfering with the mainlines.

Jim, thanks for your comments.  The yard lead does connect to the main for convenience, but is not on the main itself.   Using the lead does NOT block the main lines, and this connection allows a train that is heading into the yard to pull in via the yard lead, so as to clear the main line more quickly, not leaving its caboose dangling on the main, and slowing down the following train (likely a fast passenger), while the locomotive works through the ladder and the classification tracks at slow speed.   I thought about extending the lead for more length, but then it would effectively wrap around to the town above the yard - not sure if that is a good idea or not.  And I thought then the lead would need its own bridge over the stream on the right side, so there would be THREE bridges AND a trestle all in the same small footprint, perhaps not a good visual idea.  Extending the lead would be easy to do - what do you think?

The operating plan you describe is one that Rick can be able to implement: making up outbound trains in the yard, running around the road switching industries and returning to the yard.  An interchange operates as one more "industry", where cars are picked-up and dropped off - albeit a bigger industry, and perhaps requiring the cars to be dropped-off to be organized and ordered.   I'll look at adding a connecting spur off the yard on the right side if Rick is interested.   Things are pretty tight there already.

-Ken

What is the thinking for locomotive storage?  The TT area is somewhat limited.

I know we all model in different ways( loop running, prototypical operation, etc.) and tend to view a layout from the perspective of how we operate our own trains.  I think diversity is one of the things that makes this hobby so great. That being said, this plan would be perfect for me. Double track main for continuous running and just enough sidings/industries to keep the switching interesting.

There is one thing I would do different with this plan. Since the upper loop is physically separate from the rest of the track and seems to run through a mountainous area I would make it an On30 logging road, and maybe put a mine in the top left corner.

Ultimately this is Rick's layout and he has to build a railroad that makes HIM happy. 

Ken,

Sorry, I missed the crossover from the yard lead to the ladder when looking at the small picture.    When I opened it, I saw that.   I originally thought the lead just went around the yard.   You are right visually and prototypically,   running the lead out across the bridge does not seem to appeal.    I suppose you could move the river if you wanted a longer lead.   I am not sure how long string it can hold.    It looks like you could pull any but the longest track.   

A thought, if you want more yard, make it stub-ended.    I would love to have a double ended yard like that, but with number 6 switches, the 2nd ladder eats up enough space to put 25-30 cars.   

As for the following comment on the engine terminal, it could be moved to the other end of the yard and jutted out into the room to add more tracks, or longer tracks and the "car storage tracks" could be moved to the other end of the yard.

Rather than put the interchange next to the yard, consider putting it on the other side of the room.    You could run a track or 2 off the main and go under the scenery and the upper level loop.    Perhaps instead of the coal mine scene behind the trestle, have the interchange come off near where the road goes up to the trestle and go under the trestle and under the upper level scenery.     Might room enough for 2 whole trains side by side.

Another really far out plan is to come off the main across from the elevator and go under the upper level in onto a shelf in the "acess" area.   A 4 inch shelf would hold one string of cars and an 8 inch wide shelf would hold two.    Additional shelves could be put in above and below and used to store cars not on the layout.    Then they could be "fiddled" on and off the staging tracks.   

Jim

I like it. Wish I had a space like that to work with.

SouthernMike:  I am also a fan of On30, and would strongly consider that guage for the upper level route if this was my layout.   Rick decided on O-gauge for the "High Line".   Either way, this route adds more interest and fun, and opportunity for great scenery and structures. 

The yard lead is 79.5 inches in length, not counting the switches or any use of the ladder.   That seems likely to be sufficient for pretty much all switching moves of cuts of cars.

-Ken

I came up with this modification the other day, as a possible change.   Looking at the town at the right, and extending around toward the mine and coal power plant.    The siding through town is extended around the curve toward the power plant.   It extends the siding for a longer train to pull through the this town, and allows Rick to switch the power plant from the siding, thus clearing the mainline, and also allows longer industry/accessory space.   What do you think?

Looks good Ken, like this change.  Rick and I have been friends for a long time, he's a class act.  As well, I believe, you are too. Birds of a feather so to speak.

Here is an option for a connection with another railroad, a branchline, or perhaps an interchange track as we have been discussing.  Its on the left hand side along the access to the breaker-box.   Being on the other side of the mountain adds a feeling of separation and "over there" supporting the idea this goes somewhere else.   Its all visible, so no hidden tracks to hassle with.   And it adds another bridge with the connection running beneath.  [Though it certainly could dive into a tunnel instead, creating a hidden track, with open access to the passageway.]  The diverging turnout is a #6, and the track is just over seven feet long, if used as an interchange track, its a "facing-point" turnout for right-hand running, but is OK if imagined as a branchline or connection.   The "high-line" mine spur was shortened, and some scenery area is lost, for a busier look more dense with track.  

On the right-hand side, I experimented with a connection to another railroad running beneath the bridge of the high-line.   Not sure I like this addition, left a bit rough/unfinished in the picture.   Its a bit hard to see unless you can zoom the picture or download it to view it.  This connection is made with an O-120/O-96 curved turnout on the outer main.

Comments?

Ken,

I'm a fan of operations.  I think that there should be a yard lead on the left side of the classification tracks to allow a switcher to move a string of cars from and to these tracks to the car storage tracks without having to do a lot of running around the string so that it pushes the string into car storage.

I think it would enhance operations if the upper track was connect to the lower tracks so that it could function as a branch line.   You would need to add an interchange track and adjust grades ans elevations.

Jan

WOW!

Peter