PRR locos dirty? Ever saw a SP unit?
Actually, I see an SP unit every few days still in SP paint on the Mesa local. Keep meaning to get off the freeway and photograph it. Hmmm ... I have a meeting out that way next Tuesday. Subject for another thread.
On subject, no new photos to show, but the smooth side G's from 3rd Rail are looking pretty sweet too so far. They will be pretty rare in 3 rail. Perhaps Scott will share some photos when he is ready.
On subject, no new photos to show, but the smooth side G's from 3rd Rail are looking pretty sweet too so far. They will be pretty rare in 3 rail. Perhaps Scott will share some photos when he is ready.
Any Silver GG1's around? Is the Bachman one nice, can anyone post pictures? Are they TMCC? Speed controlled?
The OSH 2010 calendar (free) features 2 GG1 green 5-stripes in PA station on its January page.
WBB engines and motors only have conv. control.
Here's a pic of the 4800 at Strasburg, taken in June 2003:
NH Chris
NH Chris
Chris - thanks for sharing that shot. When I was their in the Summer of '08 the 4800 had lost it's stripes again!
A bit of a sad day for me. One of the several GG1's in my collection, and a particularly collectible HO one gave it's own life to further the cause of one of its O gauge brothers.
A 1957 G on it's way to CA for color matching was destroyed by FedEx. Upon arrival, the chassis fell and the pantographs were torn apart even though the model was double boxed. This particular G was the very first one released by Penn Line and has very good color. While later Penn Line G's are a dime a dozen, this one was the original.
Funny how it has safely arrived half around the world safely, but it couldn't survive a small trip from AZ to CA. This is not a particularly valuable model, but collectible models not always based on value.
The good news is that I hoard spare parts and I still think I have an instruction sheet on how to rebuild it. Never made a claim to FedEx, but I will need to learn quick.
Today, however I mourn the loss of the little G that only wanted to help it's bigger brother out.
You died for a good cause and you will be missed.
A 1957 G on it's way to CA for color matching was destroyed by FedEx. Upon arrival, the chassis fell and the pantographs were torn apart even though the model was double boxed. This particular G was the very first one released by Penn Line and has very good color. While later Penn Line G's are a dime a dozen, this one was the original.
Funny how it has safely arrived half around the world safely, but it couldn't survive a small trip from AZ to CA. This is not a particularly valuable model, but collectible models not always based on value.
The good news is that I hoard spare parts and I still think I have an instruction sheet on how to rebuild it. Never made a claim to FedEx, but I will need to learn quick.
Today, however I mourn the loss of the little G that only wanted to help it's bigger brother out.
You died for a good cause and you will be missed.
Jon,
Poor Lil Penn Line GG1
I'll keep my eyes open for a replacement.
Ric
Poor Lil Penn Line GG1
I'll keep my eyes open for a replacement.
Ric
I think before the PA RR Museum upgrades ANY equipment, they need to build a place to put all items undercover. Maybe not completely climate controlled, but enought to get the sun, rain and snow off the items. Complete climate control can come online later!
I know this is off topic but can someone tell me with a great degree of assureness what type and color of passenger cars were used behind tuscan 5 stripe GG1 #4912?
Also, was this engine ever used for freight in this color scheme?
Thanks
Joe
Also, was this engine ever used for freight in this color scheme?
Thanks
Joe
Joe,
There is really no way to properly assess the color of Tuscan Red. It changed over the years and Dupont closely protects the formula to this day even though the actual paint has been discontinued since 2002 or 2003. Even the paint that they discontinued was 'reconstituted' from the original formula which was likely lead based so there is no guarantee on an exact match.
Having prefaced myself well
first, the 4912 would have pulled any passenger train in the electrified network. While they were specifically painted to pull the Congressional in 1952 and 1953, the PRR assigned available motors as needed to trains. Tuscan G's would be put on the Congos if available, but if not, whatever motor was ready would be used instead.
For that reason, you could almost not put a non-prototypical consist of passenger cars behind the G's. Think every railroad that went into Penn Station, NY and you could have a train with cars from them behind a G. Think about matching consists off the ACL, SCL and the Southern that ran into DC. New Haven came south from Boston. Through sleepers off the UP, CZ, Golden State, and others out of Chicago. Both heavyweights and lightweight streamliners in the PRR fleet. Lots of solid consists of P70 coaches with a heavyweight D78 diner, a lounge or both thrown in.
Contrary to what would seem logical, the Tuscan GG1's were not normally assigned to the Broadway Limited and the lone R1 electric that was built at the same time as the GG1 4800 for testing often did the honors on the BW until 1960.
GG1's did not pull freight much if at all during the brief period that the Tuscan 5 stripe scheme was on these units prior to the single stripe DLGE. The 90 P5a and P5a modifieds did most of the freight duties along with 10 experimental GE and Baldwin electrics. GG1's only started being used in freight service when the decline in passenger services freed up the older G's for freight service during the period when E44's came into play. They were not an ideal freight locomotive, but could handle the job. The units ultimately designated for freight can pretty well be traced through the end. 4800-4871 went to Conrail, 4872-4884 went to NJT and 4885-4938 ended up with Amtrak.
Now, to step back a bit - if you are looking for a great matching trainset behind the 4912 that would have been protoypically correct, the Congressional being pulled by the 4912 is in the original promotional information.
There is really no way to properly assess the color of Tuscan Red. It changed over the years and Dupont closely protects the formula to this day even though the actual paint has been discontinued since 2002 or 2003. Even the paint that they discontinued was 'reconstituted' from the original formula which was likely lead based so there is no guarantee on an exact match.
Having prefaced myself well
first, the 4912 would have pulled any passenger train in the electrified network. While they were specifically painted to pull the Congressional in 1952 and 1953, the PRR assigned available motors as needed to trains. Tuscan G's would be put on the Congos if available, but if not, whatever motor was ready would be used instead. For that reason, you could almost not put a non-prototypical consist of passenger cars behind the G's. Think every railroad that went into Penn Station, NY and you could have a train with cars from them behind a G. Think about matching consists off the ACL, SCL and the Southern that ran into DC. New Haven came south from Boston. Through sleepers off the UP, CZ, Golden State, and others out of Chicago. Both heavyweights and lightweight streamliners in the PRR fleet. Lots of solid consists of P70 coaches with a heavyweight D78 diner, a lounge or both thrown in.
Contrary to what would seem logical, the Tuscan GG1's were not normally assigned to the Broadway Limited and the lone R1 electric that was built at the same time as the GG1 4800 for testing often did the honors on the BW until 1960.
GG1's did not pull freight much if at all during the brief period that the Tuscan 5 stripe scheme was on these units prior to the single stripe DLGE. The 90 P5a and P5a modifieds did most of the freight duties along with 10 experimental GE and Baldwin electrics. GG1's only started being used in freight service when the decline in passenger services freed up the older G's for freight service during the period when E44's came into play. They were not an ideal freight locomotive, but could handle the job. The units ultimately designated for freight can pretty well be traced through the end. 4800-4871 went to Conrail, 4872-4884 went to NJT and 4885-4938 ended up with Amtrak.
Now, to step back a bit - if you are looking for a great matching trainset behind the 4912 that would have been protoypically correct, the Congressional being pulled by the 4912 is in the original promotional information.
Jonathan,
Try Bowser for Penn Line parts. Even though they stopped casting they keep finding stuff in the warehouse.
Gene Anstine
Try Bowser for Penn Line parts. Even though they stopped casting they keep finding stuff in the warehouse.
Gene Anstine
Ans the wild roster of REA boxcars n passenger and M&E service would look great behind a G! PRR ran several pure M&E trans on the Corridor!
quote:Now, to step back a bit - if you are looking for a great matching trainset behind the 4912 that would have been protoypically correct, the Congressional being pulled by the 4912 is in the original promotional information.
Jonathan Peiffer
Thanks Jonathan, very much appreaciated..
I had been thinking of getting a set of heavyweights for the engine.
Joe
For those who want to see what the Front end looked like....
PRR had problems with DGLE and tuscan. Colors were not the same from batch to batch. And I do not know if lead was taken out of paints, but that could affect colors and/or hues.
4800's ship March 5th. Can't wait to see one in person.
4800 in which paint?
Dominic:
All four schemes will be shipping on that date and include:
Baldwin as delivered (Whiskers)
Wide five stripe of 1935
Standard PRR post 1943 Clarendon five stripe
Bicentennial
After the last round of painting corrections, these are drop dead gorgeous models. While I'm biased, they are the best looking 4800's ever built in model form and the closest to accurate you will find. Research indicated that this is ahead of anything done in HO and N including some pretty fine models by PSC in HO.
The Bicentennial is my favorite because of the unique nature of this model compared to any one done previously, but the wide five stripe is the most elegant. Wish I could afford them all though!
All four schemes will be shipping on that date and include:
Baldwin as delivered (Whiskers)
Wide five stripe of 1935
Standard PRR post 1943 Clarendon five stripe
Bicentennial
After the last round of painting corrections, these are drop dead gorgeous models. While I'm biased, they are the best looking 4800's ever built in model form and the closest to accurate you will find. Research indicated that this is ahead of anything done in HO and N including some pretty fine models by PSC in HO.
The Bicentennial is my favorite because of the unique nature of this model compared to any one done previously, but the wide five stripe is the most elegant. Wish I could afford them all though!
G, that would be expensive!
Just in! 3rd Rail GG1's are shipping with the ERR Sound and Cruise Commander ans Sound Commander II electronics. No batteries required!
I am getting a 2-rail wide sripe "Rivets". After I saw the pictures of this Strasburg scheme, I e-mailed Scott Mann and switched from the latter 5-stripes to the earlier one. Max Gray imported a "Rivets" in the late 50s or early 60s. I have never seen one or knew anybody who had or seen this model. I have always liked the GG-1 since I grew up in NYC and went on many trains pulled by this engine (including the Congressional Limited). When I was in middle school, I purchased a Penn Line Tucsan-solid stipped GG-1 for $12.00 on Dec. 26, 1962. I thought I was on top of the world. I had this model all through high school. I don't remember what happened to it, but I wish I had another one.
I really like the wide spaced stripes too. It's what makes this version stand out and is very elegant. From a prototype standpoint, the individual stripes are actually thinner than the standard 5 stripe scheme we are all familiar with and I think it enhances the looks of "Rivets".
From an operations standpoint, if you are a stickler for dates, it does limit you to the pre-war period, but the model is just interesting enough that it did not bother me that it is prior to the dates I model. Those GGD P70's will look very nice behind it.
From an operations standpoint, if you are a stickler for dates, it does limit you to the pre-war period, but the model is just interesting enough that it did not bother me that it is prior to the dates I model. Those GGD P70's will look very nice behind it.
quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
There is really no way to properly assess the color of Tuscan Red.
Jonathan,
May I suggest purchasing a set of the PRRT&HS Color Drift Cards which can be ordered at the PRRT&HS Interchange.
Secondly, from Jerry Britan's website, there is this page which gives an extremely close (if not bang on) coloring matching system by Bruce Smith and Greg Martin. Both are recognized PRRT&HS experts whom I have called "Walking Encyclopedias" for their knowledge on this and other PRR areas. To use the old, trite phrase, "If they can't do it, no one can!".
Bill
This is not cale, but I have heard WBB will be making a GG1 4800's debut livery!
I also have a House of Duddy GG-1 with a Bill Wolfer drive. This has an aluminum body, but with nicely detailed brass frames and trucks. It has a chain drive. I painted this up with brunswick green (actually black) with a solid stripe as was in the late 50s and early 60s. It looks nice. I also have an old Lionel 2330-the first 2-motored one with magne-traction. This engine runs lke a Swiss watch and is 50 years old!
Mr. Bradley,
As I understand it Max Gray only imported around a half dozen of the riveted GG1's. I did see one. It belonged to a fellow by the name of Henry Van Auken (sp?) in Florida who had a huge collection of rare and custom built (Waller, Icken, etc.) locomotives. I was at his house and purchased several locomotives including Overland NH FL-9's and a Crisi NYC S motor from him about 8 or 9 years ago. He was a transplanted New Yorker. What a character !!
As I understand it Max Gray only imported around a half dozen of the riveted GG1's. I did see one. It belonged to a fellow by the name of Henry Van Auken (sp?) in Florida who had a huge collection of rare and custom built (Waller, Icken, etc.) locomotives. I was at his house and purchased several locomotives including Overland NH FL-9's and a Crisi NYC S motor from him about 8 or 9 years ago. He was a transplanted New Yorker. What a character !!
Jonathan--
In your opinion, which of the importers has the most accurate rendition of tuscan red on a scale GG1, Weaver, Williams, MTH or Lionel? Thanks.
In your opinion, which of the importers has the most accurate rendition of tuscan red on a scale GG1, Weaver, Williams, MTH or Lionel? Thanks.
ChessieMan,
While you are waiting for Jonathan's opinion I will offer mine: I have owned Weaver, MTH, and Lionel tuscan GG1's and have a friend with the Williams version. I believe by far the Lionel is the closest to being the shade of a freshly painted locomotive. The only issue with it is that the striping is not correct on the ends.
I believe the new Sunset GG1 will be similar in color to the Lionel but with the correct striping on the ends.
While you are waiting for Jonathan's opinion I will offer mine: I have owned Weaver, MTH, and Lionel tuscan GG1's and have a friend with the Williams version. I believe by far the Lionel is the closest to being the shade of a freshly painted locomotive. The only issue with it is that the striping is not correct on the ends.
I believe the new Sunset GG1 will be similar in color to the Lionel but with the correct striping on the ends.
ChessieMan,
I agree with Bob's assessment. Most models are too dark and too brown or too purple.
I agree with Bob's assessment. Most models are too dark and too brown or too purple.
The 3rd Rail version will be excellent too
I know. I just received my B&O Q-4b and I am gearing up for a B&O T-3. Combine that with some serious health issues I'm dealing with I can't dance with Scott on the GG1s.
I like GG1s but if you cut me I bleed BANDO Blue.
I just received my B&O Q-4b and I am gearing up for a B&O T-3. Combine that with some serious health issues I'm dealing with I can't dance with Scott on the GG1s.I like GG1s but if you cut me I bleed BANDO Blue.
quote:Originally posted by robert bradley jr.:
To rheil
Thanks for the info on the Max Gray "rivets". I am just now seeing your reply. I wonder what this engine is worth today, since only 6 were produced?This must truly be a classic piece! I expect my Sunset "rivets" to arrive in 2.5 weeks.
I suspect the 4800's will start arriving on Monday based on the latest information. I am very excited to see the final outcome. Plenty of pictures will be posted when they show up!
Sadly, I had to give up my reservation. I love to run the equipment I purchase and when I learned that the finished model required a minimum 72" radius; I had to give it up because my layout has 54" minimum radius.
That was a concession to make for this model to be truly scale. Williams, Weaver, and MTH get away with the 054 radius on some of their models due to the smaller than scale size (about 3/4") and added articulation in the frame that detracts from the prototype. Lionel's JLC version is true to scale and is 072 minimum as well.
Sorry you had to drop the reservation. It is going to be worth the 072 curves.
Sorry you had to drop the reservation. It is going to be worth the 072 curves.
Hey Jonathan,
Looking foward to receiving my "Old Rivets." I also received my Arizona Brewing billboard reefers (2nd release) today. They are magnificent!! You and the rest of the SE Division of TCA members are to be commended.
My best wishes to y'all "out West,"
Steve Painter
Looking foward to receiving my "Old Rivets." I also received my Arizona Brewing billboard reefers (2nd release) today. They are magnificent!! You and the rest of the SE Division of TCA members are to be commended.
My best wishes to y'all "out West,"
Steve Painter
I suspect the 4800's will start arriving on Monday based on the latest information.
Jonathan,
depending what Bob has up his sleeve, I may be seeing one or both versions of the G this Saturday.
look ma, no hands
Jonathan,
depending what Bob has up his sleeve, I may be seeing one or both versions of the G this Saturday.
look ma, no hands
Chris,
As they would say in England, "You lucky Bas%^&$!"
I'm pretty sure Bob has the prototype model for the 4911 smooth side and he might have a 4800 too - perhaps the 1952 5 stripe version?
If you get them first, let me know what you think! I am counting on shipping from CA to AZ to be shorter than all you out East, but it will likely be the opposite!
As they would say in England, "You lucky Bas%^&$!"
I'm pretty sure Bob has the prototype model for the 4911 smooth side and he might have a 4800 too - perhaps the 1952 5 stripe version?
If you get them first, let me know what you think! I am counting on shipping from CA to AZ to be shorter than all you out East, but it will likely be the opposite!
