Scale Polar Express Lionel cars - Santa is NOT happy!

Ordered all 6 cars. 4 of the 6 have the exact same issue. The separately applied leaf spring is also a problem on a couple of the cars as well. Check them ALL out beforehand!!!

Perfect title!

I had somewhat similar experience. My list.... 5 cars, 2 were fine. 1st one had one loose screw , loose bearing cap, loose figure, 2nd car had loose screw and loose bearing cap, 3rd car had 3 loose bearing caps.  

When the lit up, the green tint of window plastic looks different on the observation car than the rest of the cars.

I have a good amount of Lionel stuff, this is the first time I had issues like this.

It is unfortunate, otherwise the cars are nice. The electric buffer/ flicker free feature is a nice touch. I dont think other cars had this feature.

Has Lionel’s QC hit rock bottom.... or can it can it dip farther?

SantaFeJim posted:

Has Lionel’s QC hit rock bottom.... or can it can it dip farther?

There seems to have been an awful lot of defective items this year.  Hard to believe QC even exists.  It sure puts a burden on the dealers to have to handle this mess all the time.

This can't be!!!..........

Howard Hitchcock stated on his last interview with Notch 6 that he had a QA team in place!!!!

Somewhere Mike Reagan is shaking his head.

Lionel's service dept must be working a lot of overtime.

I haven't got mine yet but when they come in they better be right. If not they will be returned and I want a refund. I hope that this is not the case.

Glad I bought the first run.

On to the new catalog and new preorders!!

When you go to the store, open boxes to check before you leave. It sounds like Lionel QC isn't doing what they are supposed to be doing. Look at the Legacy GG 1's it seems like they had a lot of problems with those too.

Your problems sound familiar; must be the same factory.  In October 2015, I went on a hunt looking to buy heavy polar express cars for my Pere Marquette loco.  Took a few months of searching but found 7 new ones from various dealers located in the East, one from here, one from there.  

Didn't pull them out of their boxes when they arrived; just looked thru the plastic cover; looked good.  One year later I did and found 3 of the 7 had 1 truck each with broken leaf springs.  Wound up buying  replacement trucks and installing them.  Same issue with the tint of the windows.  It is what it is.

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the snow covered roofs ???

mlavender480 posted:

I can see why Mike R. got out...

I think Mike Reagan was seeing a part of the Lionel business that we are all starting to see now.  They have lost control of production and outsourced it completely.  Lionel has no Quality Control Program because they are no longer in control of production.   They simply make a preliminary design and then some China company takes over the production methods, materials, and schedule.  Seems as if Lionel has reduced themselves to an order taker and distributor except throw in some freight car printing machine. 

This is starting to remind me of the previous Lionel business cycle.  During Post-War period was on top with innovative designs and quality production but only to almost lose it all during the MPC era.  Back again strong in early 2000 era with innovation only to let it all start to slip down the tubes again around 2015.  I miss the quality products that were coming out of Korea.    

 I have no confidence with the new products and zero confidence Lionel has the right team in place to correct it.  I am no Lionel basher but I can't sit by idly and watch them keep tanking it.  I collect them exclusively with thousands ($$$) spent on their products. 

H10 was my last engine buy, as I have enough to last till I'm gone.  Might get a few more cars to pull though.  Boy do I miss K-Line!

Is there a layperson fix to the issues or will they require being sent for repairs, or is it so bad only replacement trucks will do? I have a set of these plus the PRSL cars on order...kind of dreading what should be a fun experience.

I agree its unacceptable given the price of these cars. Unfortunately, fixing trains that are new out of the box has become part of the overall hobby experience, and a negative one at that.

At 200 bucks(!) a pop, these not only should be perfect, but be able to recite the entire film, bring you your morning coffee, and have a secret compartment that will refund your $ if it finds itself to be defective.

I would think you could find some nice old Walthers heavyweights for less $ at shows and eBay...

Mark in Oregon 

CSX Indy posted:

Ordered all 6 cars. 4 of the 6 have the exact same issue. The separately applied leaf spring is also a problem on a couple of the cars as well. Check them ALL out beforehand!!!

6 cars?  thought there was 5?

diner car

combination car

mail/baggage car

coach

observation car

which one am i missing?

Paul Kallus posted:

Is there a layperson fix to the issues or will they require being sent for repairs, or is it so bad only replacement trucks will do? I have a set of these plus the PRSL cars on order...kind of dreading what should be a fun experience.

I agree its unacceptable given the price of these cars. Unfortunately, fixing trains that are new out of the box has become part of the overall hobby experience, and a negative one at that.

If you go with replacing the trucks, it's a piece of cake and is easy using P.E. replacement trucks - 'Black trucks - 6205506050 - $32 each' when Lionel stocks them (I checked, they are in stock).  Done 3, have tips.

SPRUNG Passenger car trucks are too finely detailed to allow for the stress of shipping. It's because everything on the truck can move..wheels, springs, suspension arms.

The shipping carriers put a LOT of stress on packaging. Lots of Ups/Fed Ex/USPS horror stories.

So I doubt it's a lionel QC inspection issue. Everything gets from China to Lionel palletised. It' when things get shipped to distributors and then locally shipped to your LHS when probably the damage is done.

A simple inspection is to pick up an individual car box and lightly shake it...if it rattles like loose parts..most likely...its got broken truck sideframe parts.

Easy enough warranty fix by your LHS. ...OR contact Lionel for warranty repair

Don't invalidate your 1 year warranty buy trying to repair yourself.

Out of warranty? Bought used?

IF..you have the experience of the disassembly of Lionel heavyweight cars,... truck assemblies are not hard to remove and replace.

If not...seek out someone who does (fellow club member. LHS repair, ).

There is a lot that can get broken. Screws lost, wires disconnected.

If you are out of warranty, for whatever reason, and don't have the funds.....

Passenger car Sprung truck side frames are held on to the assembly by 2 screws. The side frame consists of the sideframe, suspension arms, springs, wheel journals and journal covers..all in one piece.

You do need to remove the body shell, interior, from the frame, and then remove the truck assembly from the car floor/frame to get to the sideframes of the trucks. Really being careful to not break the lighting  wires from the truck assembly.

EASY PEASY after a few OOPS.

SO......Lionel needs to stock up on assembled sprung truck sideframes. For those who have to fix their own cars.

AND ...MAYBE

Re access and maybe make the sideframes and suspension parts out of stamped steel similar to the truck assembly body or the floors of the passenger cars.

2 cents worthless

What? I have tons of passenger cars with sprung trucks on them and they all work fine and most of them survived multiple shipping adventures.

We like the snow on the roofs. In the Virginia and West Virginia mountains it snows a lot and it doesn’t melt this time of year very fast in southeast Virginia. We see trains often with snow covered coal hoppers. We plan to have some for the layout.

Heck, these cars go to and from the North Pole. No snow? You do still believe in Santa don’t you?

RickM46 posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

Is there a layperson fix to the issues or will they require being sent for repairs, or is it so bad only replacement trucks will do? I have a set of these plus the PRSL cars on order...kind of dreading what should be a fun experience.

I agree its unacceptable given the price of these cars. Unfortunately, fixing trains that are new out of the box has become part of the overall hobby experience, and a negative one at that.

If you go with replacing the trucks, it's a piece of cake and is easy using P.E. replacement trucks - 'Black trucks - 6205506050 - $32 each' when Lionel stocks them (I checked, they are in stock).  Done 3, have tips.

Rickm46

If you just do the correct sideframes, no solder work.

Paul,

It's the metal composition of the parts used, packaging, and heavy handedness of companies who get paid to deliver product unbroken.

Let's hope Lionel someday finds a way to cure these issues before products hit our shores. I've never understood the mentality of repairing a product I paid hard earned money for...

I should refine why I replaced my trucks; they all had broken black plastic leaf springs - didn't see leaf springs as replacement parts at Lionel.

Matt Makens posted:

What? I have tons of passenger cars with sprung trucks on them and they all work fine and most of them survived multiple shipping adventures.

Many old posts about zinc pest and passenger trucks.

Mostly involving Lionel sprung passenger trucks.(NYC, 20th Century Limited heavyweights, Santa Fe Chief heavyweight, George Washington heavyweight, and Alton heavyweight.)

I' ve replaced truck assemblies on all four of these sets (mine..new in the box..when I got them)

I thought it was zic rot but now have my doubts.

ZenGardenRails posted:

CSX Indy posted:

Ordered all 6 cars. 4 of the 6 have the exact same issue. The separately applied leaf spring is also a problem on a couple of the cars as well. Check them ALL out beforehand!!!

6 cars?  thought there was 5?

 

diner car

combination car

mail/baggage car

coach

observation car

which one am i missing?

https://mrmuffinstrains.com/pr...rs-the-polar-express

Gold Coach

RickM46 posted:

I should refine why I replaced my trucks; they all had broken black plastic leaf springs - didn't see leaf springs as replacement parts at Lionel.

They don't.

They don't sell the side frame assembly seperately either. No springs. No wheel journals or journal covers.

THEY NEED TO.

I bought fully assembled trucks. Removed the sideframe assemblies and replaced on my existing trucks...avoided soldering, ....now have spare wheels and couplers.

I kept all the 3 old trucks - never thought of using them as a parts junk yard - Ha, great idea!

RickO posted:

This can't be!!!..........

Howard Hitchcock stated on his last interview with Notch 6 that he had a QA team in place!!!!

 

Somewhere Mike Reagan is shaking his head.

And somewhere Howard has hand to face.

CSX Indy posted:

ZenGardenRails posted:

CSX Indy posted:

Ordered all 6 cars. 4 of the 6 have the exact same issue. The separately applied leaf spring is also a problem on a couple of the cars as well. Check them ALL out beforehand!!!

6 cars?  thought there was 5?

 

diner car

combination car

mail/baggage car

coach

observation car

which one am i missing?

https://mrmuffinstrains.com/pr...rs-the-polar-express

Gold Coach

I ordered two coaches. Now I have to immediately inspect each car when delivery happens after the holidays. This is a bummer!

I have one of the early non-scale sets from 2004; no blue tooth or wifi; works great. Every year I run the set under the tree,no problems.

So much for scale.

There is simply no reason to accept faulty items from Lionel. Lionel by the way, is all I own. Return them to place of purchase and get your money back. Hopefully we can force them to get involved in the quality improve process. If not, they will certainly disappear. 

dorfj2 posted:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the snow covered roofs ???

I can only answer from an S gauger's point of view.  The Polar Express cars offered in S have always had "snow" on the roof, and I think they look better that way (better on the model than on my driveway!).  The movie's cars are covered with snow, so the model's cars should too.  I think the first issue of the O gauge cars were "snowless" and it's only lately that snow was added.  Probably in response to folks wanting the cars to look more like the movie.  The only problem with my cars (at least at first) was that light came through the roof of one car where the snow appeared since the blue wasn't applied first!  A bit of foil inside the cars solved that problem.

As an addition to this thread, my set was one of the first offered and two of the cars had a bit of damage to them due to improper assembly (cracked shell and stripped screw holes).  But rather than send them back, I was able to fix them so they appear as new.  The locomotive had a mislocated LED headlight and the band on the flywheel came off so the electronics didn't work properly.  The dealer suggested sending the whole set back, but since none were available for exchange in the first year, I opted to send only the locomotive back.  The dealer was able to fix it without having to wait for parts, and it came back in record time and is still working perfectly. 

My only (very minor) gripe is that us S guys don't have the additional cars like the hobo, hot chocolate and combine cars available to us.   It was my 6 year old grandson who brought this to my attention.   He also told me how to access the complete sound effects program that the manual didn't inform me about.   He doesn't mind the lack of cars, though since he not only runs the PE under the Christmas tree, but also on grandpa's larger layout downstairs.  He drove some of the non-train people nuts with the sound effects until I lowered the volume a bit.  He and I didn't mind a bit!  We had to keep his one year old brother from yanking the cars off the track, though. 

Sorry for the long answer guys.  Our big celebration was yesterday, and today my wife and I are relaxing and enjoying each other's company and being thankful for our health, family and a brief respite from outside problems.  So here's wishing all of you out there the best this Christmas season and for all the rest of the coming year!

Jerry Poniatowski                                                                                                                                                                                Wayne, MI      

PS  If any of you live in or will be visiting the Detroit area and want to go to either the Henry Ford Museum or its Greenfield Village, let me know.  I drive the Model T's and historic bus there and car arrange free admission.  The Museum is open all year and the Village will reopen mid April.          

I think there are too many footprints on the cars and too repeated/not randomly patterned,  making it look like a tire tread rolled down the center.  The actual  snow looks good...

Disregard my last post. I'm not familiar with the scale cars. I mistook the question for the regular ready to run set cars.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

RickO posted:

This can't be!!!..........

Howard Hitchcock stated on his last interview with Notch 6 that he had a QA team in place!!!!

 

Somewhere Mike Reagan is shaking his head.

And somewhere Howard has hand to face.

Who is Howard? Head management? 

If so, no way possible today that these things are happening without the upper echelon knowing about it already.

Train Nut posted:

dorfj2 posted:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the snow covered roofs ???

 

I think there are too many footprints on the cars and too repeated/not randomly patterned,  making it look like a tire tread rolled down the center.  The actual  snow looks good...

Train Nut posted:

Disregard my last post. I'm not familiar with the scale cars. I mistook the question for the regular ready to run set cars.

May not be the "correct" thread, your comments reflect many guests observations. The roofs will all be repainted white before going into storage till next year.

Received five PE blue cars. Every car was defective. Journal caps, screws, etc, some in the box and others simply missing. The plate under one car simply fell off in my hand. It was so bad that we didn’t look at anything else.

Received three gold PE coaches. Paint on the second was marred. At this point we were six unacceptable and one okay after a cursory inspection, one unopened.

We simply packed them away.

Also received a new LionChief plus steamer Thursday; the controller was DOA out of the box and the Bluetooth wouldn’t stay connected for one lap around the track. 42 people witnessed that fiasco when we tried it out a Saturday night.

My wife is beyond livid as our grandchildren were included in this mess. Her comments would be considered bashing and I do not want to be offensive to anyone. I would like to respectfully and politely ask the folks at Lionel to get their house in order. It is harming the hobby.