Sunset 3rd Rail GP9/GP7

Rule292 posted:

CentralFan1976 posted:

What we need are some GP18/20s!

 

The Central’s GP20s are some of, if not the the most beautifully proportioned of the EMD hood units.

I’m sure Scott would make darn near any locomotive we wanted. It just has to reserve and sell

Thus the conundrum of our hobby.  It doesn’t matter how popular GP7/9s or -38-2s were or SD40-2s were on the prototypes, at the end of the day the hobby is about big and fun and neat and what sells is Big Boys, Challengers, H8s, GG1s, Daylights and E/F units. 

No love for a Sunset SD40-2, which is arguably one of the most important locomotives of the past 40 years, yet a Kraus-Maffei is on the drawing board.

Not a bad thing, just human nature. 

It’s not just the Central’s that I believe would appeal to mass production. Differences in shrouded fans, and details like the bulged sides, seldom-modeled vertical grab irons and famous paint schemes like the NYC, ATSF, SP, NYSW and so many other short lines make this a popular locomotive. A loco like this is begging for single motor drive, because of the low hood constraints. 

thanks,

Mario

Sunset/3rd Rail has the SD9 tooling. A logical follow-on to that model would be an accurate SD24/SD24B/SD26//SD18. The superstructure of the SD9 is very similar and the wheelbases and length are the same -- just a matter of changing the cabs and exhaust (except for the SD18), relocating the air tanks and changing to a turbocharged prime mover (again, except for the SD18).

CentralFan1976 posted:

Rule292 posted:

CentralFan1976 posted:

What we need are some GP18/20s!

 

The Central’s GP20s are some of, if not the the most beautifully proportioned of the EMD hood units.

I’m sure Scott would make darn near any locomotive we wanted. It just has to reserve and sell

Thus the conundrum of our hobby.  It doesn’t matter how popular GP7/9s or -38-2s were or SD40-2s were on the prototypes, at the end of the day the hobby is about big and fun and neat and what sells is Big Boys, Challengers, H8s, GG1s, Daylights and E/F units. 

No love for a Sunset SD40-2, which is arguably one of the most important locomotives of the past 40 years, yet a Kraus-Maffei is on the drawing board.

Not a bad thing, just human nature. 

It’s not just the Central’s that I believe would appeal to mass production. Differences in shrouded fans, and details like the bulged sides, seldom-modeled vertical grab irons and famous paint schemes like the NYC, ATSF, SP, NYSW and so many other short lines make this a popular locomotive. A loco like this is begging for single motor drive, because of the low hood constraints. 

thanks,

Mario

I agree.  There are many variants that could be done of these classic locomotives.    Many of the big name roads seem to have dabbled in them also which would make them appealing.    Tough sell for this Pennsy guy though I love the NYC geep you have there.   "Sporty looking" is a good description though.  

And as always, the demos were typical classy EMD paint.

I would be in for at least two PRR GP7's for freight service.  Have been holding out for Sunset/3rd Rail to do them. 

Dick, you are mistaken that Atlas did not make CZ locomotives. F3’s in CB&Q, WP, and D&RG were offered; these were the locos originally intended for the CZ. 

+1 for the suggestion of a 3rd Rail GP20. I’d take two GN units, with high short hoods and set up to run long hood forward. 

I'd have a hard time resisting a decent GP-7, either a Rio Grande version or a Katy version done in the as-delivered red paint scheme or even a Rock Island red-and-black version (I'm not so keen on the Mo Pac). 

Jim, I agree Sunset's ability to produce road-specific detail on models is a deciding factor for me as well. I'd be interested in a Pennsy Geep, as long as the Brunswick looks like the E7 Scott did, and not the paler green on the SD unit.

And... Sunset is halfway there with body parts common to the SD unit. CAD design already being done.

I've had very good luck taming the 2 motor drives. All Weaver models need is the crescent shaped motor retainers that came on some units (but not others). Like on my highly detailed RS11 twins. Couple that with series wiring and a good decoder. I run that all day during an open house, with very realistic running characteristics.

This is now so easy - all you have to do is get Scott some minimum number of reservations.  Apparently you do not even have to give him a deposit.  That, to me, is remarkable!

But best of all, it simply cures all of the pent-up desire expressed above.  You can either get the reservations from your like-minded buddies, or as one of our posters did recently, you can reserve them all yourself, re-sell them , and maybe make a profit.

I have GP-7s (or9s?) from two different sources: one is Kemtron, the other is a very nicely done bronze cast model.  I like the GPs, but prefer the SD-7/9.

I'd be in for at least 2 PRR GP9s for general freight service.   PRR had about 300 I think.    I would probably be tempted by more if they did the late version with single large radiator fan instead of the two small ones.   I'd go for the 2 small ones first however, no question.

Then I'd be in for a GP7 with the "torpedo" air tanks on the roof for a local passenger train.  

Yes the reservation system seems to work pretty well.   An announcement is made and we all jump in, or we don't and scott decides to do the product based on that.    I think I have heard the target is about 1000 units to get the current price level.   If we settle for a lot fewer units, the prices goes up considerably.  

prrjim posted:

Sunset 3rd Raill GGD diesels are not into the 4 digits.    When done in the typical size runs, they are between 650 and 700 - significantly under 4 digits.

For the example the current Atlas O F2/F3 is MSRP 519.95 and the currently announced Sunset F3 is 669.95 which is a difference of $150.     150 is significant, of course but to get features we want, it may be worth it to some.

They would reach 4 figure $$$ by the time I got one to the UK. Even importing Atlas is beyond my reach at 'new' prices, thanks to 20% "Value Added Tax" that HM Customs charges - on the whole cost including Shipping - not just the Item Value, the said Shipping costs which have utterly skyrocketed in recent years, & lastly a charge from Royal Mail for the priveledge of them handling your imported goods.

Such costs are killing the modelling of US outline in the UK, in any scale. I've relied mostly on the second-hand market for almost all of my locos & rolling stock, as US O Scale is a small niche within a small niche of the Model Railway scene, although it has to be said that British R-T-R O Scale is having something of a boom time at the moment and rising in popularity as models improve and costs fall. 

SundayShunter posted:

Rule292 posted:

Sadly the demand for road specific accurate power in 2 rail O scale with Sunsets great running, accuracy and electronics seems not to matter to many. 

Doesnt matter how crappy it was or how archaic it was, if it’s been done before it won’t sell if someone offers an improved product.

It seems 3 railers are more demanding than 2 railers when it comes to those things. 

JMHO...

Great running, accuracy & electronics are important to most 2-railers, I'm sure. But unfortunately when the price of the "new improved product" runs into 4 figures, it's just quite simply beyond the budget of many of us. I for one would love to see a really decent 2-rail GP38-2, & a CF7, but I'd also want to be able to actually afford them as well, which rules Sunset out for me. If that somehow makes me less of a "discerning" modeller in other's eyes, well tough - it's only a hobby anyway.

What would be the railroad schemes for the 2-Rail GP38-2 and the CF7? 

For the GP38-2, the best you can get is a Scale-Wheels MTH version, if they are available.

Andrew

SundayShunter posted:

They would reach 4 figure $$$ by the time I got one to the UK. Even importing Atlas is beyond my reach at 'new' prices, thanks to 20% "Value Added Tax" that HM Customs charges - on the whole cost including Shipping - not just the Item Value, the said Shipping costs which have utterly skyrocketed in recent years, & lastly a charge from Royal Mail for the priveledge of them handling your imported goods.

Such costs are killing the modelling of US outline in the UK, in any scale. I've relied mostly on the second-hand market for almost all of my locos & rolling stock, as US O Scale is a small niche within a small niche of the Model Railway scene, although it has to be said that British R-T-R O Scale is having something of a boom time at the moment and rising in popularity as models improve and costs fall. 

Is it any better if a store orders them from a distributor or manufacturer like their other inventory?

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

For the PRR, I would love to see Sunset do the " Torpedo tube"  Gp7

Thanks for pointing this out.   As a newbie on all things PRR , ( just a hint of foam ) I wasn't aware they equipped a few GP7's this way.  This knowledge will take the building of one Sunset kit in a whole new direction for me.  Looks like the boiler stack detail is kind of unique?

Bruce

There seems to be a lot more variation in the GP7s by most RRs than the GP9s.     But there is some variety in both.     I think the PRR also had GP7s with and without Dynamic brakes.

Looking back over figures given in Pennsy Power II, seems as if there may have potentially been 8 GP7's so equipped.  Eight were equipped with steam boilers so moving reservoirs up top to accommodate a larger fuel tank was certainly possible.

Bruce

Looking back over figures given in Pennsy Power II, seems as if there may have potentially been 8 GP7's  torpedo equipped.  Eight were equipped with steam boilers so moving reservoirs up top to accommodate a larger fuel tank was certainly possible.

Bruce

GP 7/9’s in scale have been made by Atlas Lionel and MTH.How about a scale ALCO RS 3.Weaver is gone now and whoever has their dies isn’t doing anything with them so let’s have some Alco RS3,s

MR-150 posted:

GP 7/9’s in scale have been made by Atlas Lionel and MTH.How about a scale ALCO RS 3.Weaver is gone now and whoever has their dies isn’t doing anything with them so let’s have some Alco RS3,s

I seem to recall that Atlas has done at least one run of two-Rail RS-3s and could probably do more.

I know Atlas made a RS3 but I would like it to be of true scale dimensions and have fixed pilots 

BobbyD posted:

SundayShunter posted:

They would reach 4 figure $$$ by the time I got one to the UK. Even importing Atlas is beyond my reach at 'new' prices, thanks to 20% "Value Added Tax" that HM Customs charges - on the whole cost including Shipping - not just the Item Value, the said Shipping costs which have utterly skyrocketed in recent years, & lastly a charge from Royal Mail for the priveledge of them handling your imported goods.

Such costs are killing the modelling of US outline in the UK, in any scale. I've relied mostly on the second-hand market for almost all of my locos & rolling stock, as US O Scale is a small niche within a small niche of the Model Railway scene, although it has to be said that British R-T-R O Scale is having something of a boom time at the moment and rising in popularity as models improve and costs fall. 

Is it any better if a store orders them from a distributor or manufacturer like their other inventory?

Unfortunately not; the charges still have to be paid, & ultimately that is by the end user, as an importing dealer will pass the costs on. 

As for liveries; my choice for the GP38-2 should be guessed from my signature; Soo Line white/red please with some variations possible such as their first 10 which had red 'SOO' & numbers on them; the later Soo Line Candy Apple red scheme, & even the ex-MILW 'Bandit' patch job would be something!!

As for the CF7, liveries would have to include Santa Fe & Amtrak I expect, plus LAJ, but the Corporate Genesee & Wyoming colours would look good, maybe with a range of decals to suit various roads that have them. From a purely selfish viewpoint I'd like one done as the Minnesota Transfer's #484 'City of Bayport', which they sold off some years ago. Given the wide variety of CF7 users, though (both real and for modellers, imaginary), I'd expect an Undecorated model to be a good seller.