the question of plywood for layout

A lot depends on how sturdy you want it to be (and the overall size of the layout helps determine that). 

 

As an example - do you want to be able to crawl on top of the layout during construction? Your weight and spacing of crossmembers will help determine that. Additionally, less-thick plywood may "sag" between crossmembers over time. That could create some interesting scenic effects.

 

My current layout was adapted from an old rollaway-under-the-bed layout. It WAS 3'6" x 72". I added a 10" "shelf" by fastening some L-angles to the legs on the backside and laying a piece of scrap on top of them.

 

I also used OSB (oriented strand board) for the top; it's about 1/2", but is weaker / less $$$ than traditional plywood. On top of that, I added a sheet of 1/2" foam board for sound deadening (here in DFW it's hard to find 1 or 2" sheets).

 

The perimeter boards I used were 1x2s. This is a small layout, so strength-over-distance is minimal. Since this is an old layout board, you *can* see some sagging. That was fixed with the addition of an extra leg.  I made my legs out of 2-1x2s, glued and screwed together to make an "L". Add some diagonal cross braces and it's quite sturdy.

You will be safe using 1/2" plywood as your base.  You can also use 2x2s as your legs.  Use either 1x4" or 1x3" as cross members on 16" centers.  I would not use 1x2s as cross members.  If you plan to live on top of your layout you may want to use heavier material depending on your weight.  I bolt my legs to the framework using one 3/8" hex head or lag BOLT (not lag screws).

 

Rick

I use cabinet grade plywood.  About $45 per 8'x4' sheet.  I think it is 5/8" thick.  Flat, no issues with weight on top (including me), screw in to base 600 times, never a problem (I exaggerate, my point being put in screw, remove, place somewhere else, etc, no compromising of wood integrity.).  Stands up well to any temp changes in the basement.  My basement has A/C vents and 2 dehumidifiers.

 

Hope that helps.

I built my benchwork with 1X4 framing, 1X6 and 1X4 for the legs, 1/2 plywood top covered with 1/2 inch celotex.  I am able to climb up on top my layout and it will support my weight with no problem.  The celotex ( Homosote ) works fine for laying track, holds screws quite well.  As far as track noise, I think the celotex does a fine job of keeping the sound down some.  I have seen a lot of discussion about how noisy O Gauge trains can be.  I have never found that to be an issue  -  I like the sound of the train rumbling down the track.  ( I use good old O-31 Tubular Track ).  I see some fellows comment that fast track is noisy.  Stand next to the Union Pacific track when a 100 car coal drag rumbles by at 40 MPH and tell me how quite it is.

 

Steve

I would not use 1/4" ply. In my opinion it is not up to the task for a flat durable track surface over time. I am sure you can build a strong one by two structure but in my opinion for the money I go for 1x4 or 2x4. As far as sound goes a lot depends on the room your in. I have had a tubular layout on 3/4" and 1/2" ply where the sound made it unpleasant to be in the room.(unfinished utility room) I heard no noticeable difference. But On those layouts I eventually poured pea sized gravel on the track and the sound dropped at least 50%. You could see the gravel vibrating as the train approached. The track was screwed directly to the ply. Now I use a 1/2" rubber type roadbed and atlas O track in that same room and it is quite satisfactory as far as noise. IMHO the roadbed reduces noise far more than the thickness of the ply. I am starting another layout in STD Guage and it will have 3/4" MDF and 1/2" rubber roadbed. The best of both worlds. It will also be in a carpeted finished room.

I use 3/4" plywood with 2x4 framing. A small army can stand on it.

The one thing I've noticed over the years is bragging rights come into play . Ya know, "The ol' mine's bigger than yours" thing?

 

The layout construction of which you mention is used mostly on lighter scales other than O-Gauge. These being HO, N & Z. Most O-Gauge layouts use at 1/2" plywood base covered with 1/2" soundboard or 1/2" Homosote. To this some add a foam base, also. Onto the base construction is done as with other scales.

 

You will see some layouts that are built to with stand an 11.0 earthquake . In these cases the lack of basic building construction knowledge becomes very apparent . If everyone would take the time to read & study basic layout construction manuals the downfall of others can be overcome. 

I used 1/2" "smooth sided" OSB for my layout, its lighter, cheaper, and flatter than plywood and the main thing is, it doesn't warp.

 

As far as strength goes, if a 200lb roofer can walk on it with a 75-100lb bundle of shingles, it can handle a few 10-15 lb trains.

I use 1/4" pegboard with 1/4" I/O carpet over it. I walk all over it. Sievers bench work, one foot centers eh? I'm 180 lbs. I like to be able to poke a wire down thru it anywhere. 

1/2" OSB here....as stated lots cheaper and they way I build my roadbeds OSB strength is not an issue. Modern OSB with high tech glues are more stable and pretty strong IMHO compared to today's ply. 

I use half inch plywood in 4 by 8 foot sheets, about three, with 2 by 4's for supports. I put the 2 by 4's under the plywood with saw horse brackets about 32 inches from the floor. That way I can have a second level, a 3 by 6 plywood, without too much work.

My dad started with plywood sheets set up on saw horses about three feet high.

 

I use mainly 031 and 042 tubular track for the lower level and 027 and Gargraves for the upper level.

 

Lee Fritz

3/4" finished birch ply here with. 2x4 at 16" centers. You can Park a Buick on my board.

Paulie:

 

The Buick could go with my small army.   I did the same and the huge advantage is very few legs under the benchwork to negotiate.

I just want to throw this in.I'm sure many will be PSYCHO responding....If you use 1/2"plywood and your layout is in a basement you will be sorry.1/2"is unstable and effected by dampness.It will buckle and become wavy no matter how good your framing is.This will in the long run cause even MORE un coupleing problems then you will already have as the NORM.1/2 MDF would be better.I use 3/4 poplar ply.The layers are glued together with a higher quality glue and it is more dense.Yes its about 45 bucks a sheet.Do it RIGHT. 

3/4" plywood and 1/2" homasote.....never looked back, no regrets. Its not going anywhere, and anyone can walk or crawl all over it.

3/4" in the attic. Same reasons as already given. I do, however use 1x4 instead of 2x4 framing.

 

Gilly

I have seen significant HO layouts with spline roadbeds made of laminated Homosote strips on edge. Has anyone utilize this technique in O?

am leaning towards OSB, the building it will go in uses osb for roof and sheathing, and seems quite sturdy, economical and strong qt 7/16 thickness, doubt if waterproof but is somewhat water resistant,   the room on the left will be all railroad and probably will be a 'around the room' layout (at least today that is the thought), could change to a modification of center and partial around room, available space is 16X12,  all i could handle building wise,  outside will be finished this week with cedar shingles, and new 30yr roof, original building is on right and it was only 10X12 but has been there for over 30 years

Our museum has used OSB for 0 and Standard Gauge layout benchwork, laid over 2x4's. It seems to be working fine so far. We put 1/2" sound board on top. I built my own layout with 1/2" plywood and 1/2" sound board with 2x4 framing. It is very solid and I can walk all over it, no problem. (I have to walk on it to clean ceiling fans, skylight, etc.) Legs are 2x3, mainly because I got some junk 2x6's for free and after ripping them, cutting them to length, and squaring up, they were perfect and the price was right. I squared up all my framing lumber on a jointer and planer. It was time consuming, but it meant that the modules mated up perfectly and I didn't have to deal with laying plywood on top of warped stringers. I also put screw adjusters in the bottom of the legs so I could level the table without using shims.

 

One thing to consider when deciding on framing material is that if you use one-by, you have to be very precise in locating your screws. It's not a full inch thick, of course, so if your screw alignment is the least bit off, you could have a screw sticking half out the side of a support beam. And screws in the end grain won't have the strength that they will in a 2x4. That's why I decided to use 2x4 rather than 1x4 for my framing. 

 

Finally, I'm not convinced that saving weight is a good thing. Weight equals stability and helps sound damping. I wouldn't advise plywood any thicker than 1/2" because a full sheet is just too hard for one guy to handle, but I don't see any real advantage to using 1x4 over 2x4 unless you're building a portable layout. 

 

As far as the comment about 1/2" plywood soaking up humidity in a basement, it depends on how humid the basement is and how cheap the plywood is. Some of the cheap imported plywood from Asia is going to soak up water like a sponge; better quality plywood will be more resistant. The real issue in humid climates is the sound board or Homasote on the top. That stuff MUST be painted on both sides and the edges. That also keeps the sound board from shedding all over the place. I use latex primer. The store will usually tint it for free, which lets you get it closer to your final color. 

another thing i have been able to do is collect many many old pallets and tear them apart and salvage wood,  all salvaged wood cut to true 1"X2" in various lengths all of them over 36"  and a wide variety of wood, some of it oak, some maple, some??? but nice wood and i actually have a lumber processor nearby and he offered to kiln it for whatever time it needs, just put it on a pallet and let it sit inhis lumber kiln

I used 1x4 framing made by ripping 3.5" strips from 3/4" cabinet plywood - much cheaper than 1x4 pine, and also much stronger.  Covered with 3/8" B/C plywood followed by 1/2" QuietBoard, then painted QB earth tone to prevent black marks on everything.  Needed to go with lighter plywood to allow carrying partially assembled benchwork up a flight of stairs.

I used a 33" x 48" Ikea desk with 1" foamboard on top! pretty sturdy and it's small enough that if I need to get to the other side, I just reach over. Added one of their drawer things and a pair of level adjustable legs. Works great so far! Only thing was the mess from the particle board drilling through it to wire stuff.

 

 

2x4's on 16" centers covered with 4x8x2" Owens Corning exterior rigid insulation.  No plywood needed.

I have used 5 ply 3/4" birch plywood. It will never warp. A little more expensive but worth it.

"Owens Corning exterior rigid insulation"

hmmm not at all familiar with this,  will go to LOWES and see what it is will it accept any kind of paint? or glue?

bet it really deadens sound quite well

In my opinion it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.  For those are building a permanent layout with uber scenery and weight...the 2"x4" frame with thick layers of top is great.

 

For someone like me who is building a foldable-movable layout...1"x4" framing with thinner top will suffice.

 

Some may be in the middle...think layout suspended from ceiling on pulleys.

 

Bottom line there is no correct way to do it and there is no correct answer.  It really will depend on the circumstances.  Strength can be achieved with any thickness of tabletop, leg, framing combination.  Just depends on what you're planning to do.

 

-rog

"suspended from ceiling on pulleys."

funny you should mention that, because, that is what i have in the garage now a 4X9 board that is raised and lowered by a boat winch, and is on four pulleys attached to ceiling in the garage, and i have used up every square inch of space.  consequently the new building came into being.  With support from my lovely bride of 25 years it will soon become a reality.  and your comments about what is right is not to worry the word any more but what you say is right, depends on the layout

thanks for your thoughts

I used 3/4 birch ply with 2x4 legs/braces and 3 2x4 cross members to support the center of the table.

I covered the top with 1/2 inch insulation. It does a pretty nice job of absorbing the sound that the engines make.

It's a sturdy setup, but the table, which is only 5x9, is fairly heavy. Not necessarily a bad thing, but bad if it ever needs to be moved.

Do NOT use Chinese Plywood. It will warp Badly.

In my basement I used 7ply 3/4" birch ply with 1/2" Homasote on top. I'm using L-girder construction, so the benchwork is light, but very strong. Good luck.

 

Andy

Having been a working carpenter for over 40 years, I use ¾" plywood on 2x4 framing.

Fred

I have an 8x20 Bonneville Salt Flat layout which consists of 1/2 inch thick 4x8 plywood sheets supported with 2x4 legs and 1x4 cross members.  My layout has been located in my basement since 1976.  So far it hasn't warped out of shape.

 

 

That's how I built mine too. I have often said that's where I'm going when they drop the bomb lol

Lay out base design –

Generally, practical layouts of today should be using 1X2’s & Lauan panels (Door Skins)

with a T configuration Ladder frame.

Inexpensive, light weight and portable.

My modules only weigh a few pounds and built for strength with a “T” Ladder or grid configuration.

When I want to switch them out. I swap them out with others stored vertically in a walk-in closet. Freight or subway tunnels, which ever I would like to run that month.

Modules will hold those old overweight Lionel boat anchors as well as the light weight trains of today.

 

I used felt under the tracks and carpet padding underneath.

That’s it. Simple, strong & basic. No need to over engineer it.

 

Left the 2x4’s and heavy plywood design way back in the 60’s.

Don’t understand why people are still using that today?

 

S.

 

 

More ideas on the link below...

 

 

Same here Brian.

 I used 2" OD stainless steel tube for the legs with a mounting plate welded on one end for attaching to the 2x4's and a 2"dia plate welded on the other end with a nut for adjustable feet.

 

Nick

For the same reason homes today are built the same way for the past 100 years. It's the accepted method and it's what customers expect. Plus the workforce out there knows how to do it quick....which is the bottom line. There are better more efficent ways....but not all want that!

 

I am using 2x4 frames with GOOD OSB. When I get further along I'll show the way I do mine....but warping of the OSB will not be an issue with mine....and all the lumber for a multi level 12x28 layout was $450....this is from the floor to the ceiling....and even material to make a ceiling. 

Why would anyone want to stand on their layout?

 

I don’t know Dave, my wood grain plastic deck has supported the hot tub 3 years now maintenance free.

 No splitting, splinters or re-staining will ever be required.

Sometimes we old geezers have to change with the times. What was, may not apply anymore.

 

New designs, new methods, new materials…

For what it's worth, my layout is designed to support at least 5 adults up on the "table" for track laying, and scenery installation. I used 3/4 inch "roofing" plywood wit L girder support. Even now, at six foot three and 214 pounds, I can get up and walk on the track portions of the layout for maintenance and cleaning of structures and track.

Anyone who doesn't have to walk, or kneel, on their layout has a pretty unusual situation. In my case, I have hanging art, train display shelves, ceiling fans, light fixtures, a skylight, and a window that cannot be reached without putting my weight on the layout. To configure the room so I didn't need to stand on the layout would have meant reducing the space for trains and accessories by at least 1/3. Everybody's space is different and everybody's needs are different. 

I have to make this very decision very soon.  This thread is a great read.

 

Why stand on the layout? Because it's the easiest way to install the track lighting in a room with a vaulted ceiling. 2x4's are cheap, half the price of a 1x4, and if your are building a permanent layout (not modular), I want something that we can crawl on, sit on, and stand on when required. Most of our roundhouse has been built in place, sitting on, crawling around on, and yes.... standing on when needed.

I use 'Expedit' shelf units from IKEA for the 'legs' of my layout.(See image below.) They are very strong, easy to assemble and provide plenty of storage space under the layout. I then just place the framed baseboards on top.  My baseboards are made from a framework of 2" x 1" supporting a deck of ⅜" MDF topped with ¼" sound insulating panels. I can use this lightweight framing, as the Expedit units provide all of the major structural support. 

That's actually the Kallax shelving unit by ikea...here in the US anyway. $34.99

30 3/8 inches tall...square...

Hi Chuck.  That's correct. I've just looked and it is Kallax in North America, and Expedit in Europe. After having built 10 of them for my layout supports, I can put one together in  about 5 minutes now. 

My bench work is made from 1 x 4 pine frame (12" on center) and a 1/2" 5 ply plywood top w 3" legs made from the pieces of 1" x 3" pine with a bolt adjustment on the bottom.  The basement is somewhat damp but no problems after 8 years.

I built my layout about 14 years ago, in several sections.  It is built with 1x2's and 1/4 Launan wood. On top of the plywood are 2 layers of 2" blue foam, then I added roadbed cut from 1/4 launan plywood. This layout was moved from New Jersey to North Carolina 11 years ago. Since then it has rebuilt from an On30 layout to an 3rail layout. I have had no problems with this type frame work. Charlie

Dennis brings up a very good point. Be sure to get multi-ply plywood. 3-ply, 1/2" plywood is lousy stuff. The more plies, the stronger and more stable it is. 

The timing of this thread is great, as it's going over some questions I had as well.

 

SIRT, what an interesting way to do a home layout.  It never occurred to me to make a modular layout for home allowing you to swap parts out to change up operations.  I just may have to take that into consideration, but space is tight, and I don't have a place to store unused modules.

 

But like Hot Water and Southwest Hiawatha point out, by going small and light, you can't get as much trains out at once, and it's hard to work on the walls.  I'm sure my layout will be built before the room is decorated, and the only way to get to the walls will be via the top of the layout, thus the need to stand on it.

 

2x4s are cheaper than 1x4s last I checked, so I'll use the 2x4s.  As for 1/2 vs 3/4, I live in a very dry climate, and if I have a tighter cross member spacing, do I need thicker than 1/2 or even 3/8 if putting Homosote on top?

Plywood comes in grades, what I use is: ACX - grade A sanded topside, grade C bottom, and X stands for water proof glue.  The more layers the stronger.  My layout is built with 1 x 4 cross members on 16" centers and 1/2" ACX plywood.  My 6' 2" very overweight bod can easily walk on it.  Not a creak or groan.  Cabinet grade would even be better, just more expensive.  Even if it comes with a little warp, when you screw it down to a frame it goes flat. 

Dan

If I understand the construction method here, there is a frame made from 1x2s laid flat. Then there is another frame made from 1x2s laid on edge. The outer dimensions of both are the same. These two frames are mated together (forming a sturdy "L")and turned upside down. The top is then routed to inlay the 1/2" base.

 

If I'm correct, I find the method quite interesting, kind of like a 2" deep cabinet. It seems a little time-consuming, but I'll bet the modules are quite strong while being fairly light-weight. The layout looks like it could be taken apart quite easily and reassembled just about anywhere there is room, like on top of portable tables, several sawhorses, cabinets like the Ikea mentioned earlier, etc.

 

I'm really looking for a modular approach. I just found out I may not get access to a spare bedroom now until June 2015 and I'm tired of waiting to run a train. So, I may put together some modules that I can assemble in the garage, on the patio, in the dining room or even straddle 2 sofas we have temporarily set at a 90 degree angle in the (unused for the most part) living room. If I use O31 curves for a loop2loop, I can let the sofa arms support the back and some adjustable legs take care of the front. Once I get my bedroom, I can use these modules for my 3nd level above something with O54 curves. I just saw some L-shaped designs in another thread that I think would fit this idea pretty well.

My layout is all 1 x 4 framing with 2 x 2 legs, 1 x 2 braces and 1/2" plywood (4 ply).  Don't use the plywood that is 15/32 passed off as 1/2" and is only 3 ply.

 

Jim Barrett's recent article in OGR, last month I believe, shows him using the above.

.....

Dennis

1/2" cabinet grade plywood, 2 X 2 legs and 1 X 4 framing and I can stand on it and have.  Solid as the Rock of Gibraltar in my opinion.

 

Art

Legs 2x4s, 1x4s in grid and 5-ply 1/2" plywood topped with 1/2" foam and 5/16" cork roadbed under Gargraves Flextrack.

I have Mianne benchwork, and I have 1/2 inch plywood on it.  My layout is on the second floor of a detached garage which has heating and air conditioning.

 

I'm about 200 lbs. and I have spent a lot of time on top of the layout with no problems.

Ditto. Mianne with 1/2 plywood. My layout has an elevated section and I climb right up to paint, etc. Sturdy as a rock.

I built my layout "My Lazy L" 5 x 9 x 11 on Wheels. I used 9 sets of 3 wheel rollers from Harbor freight. $3.00 each. My layout is 1x4 framework and 1/2 plywood covered with 1/2 Homosote. I can roll it with No Effort.

Works for me!!

 

I have a round the room modular layout,mounted on L brackets lag bolted to walls at 32" intervals. The bench work is 1"x2" with 1/4" 3 ply birch plywood and 1/2" homosote. The construction method is similar to what Sirt has done, light weight, no warping after 5 years, don't have heat or ac in building yet.

I think what it really comes down to is if you feel better with 2 X 4's and 3/4" plywood, by all means use it.  But in my experience it is not necessary from a strength standpoint.

 

Art

here is my basic, simple layout that i raised up and down with a boat winch on four pulleys, but  not a square inch of space not occupied, dont want to tear it apart just to change one building or one scene so consequently the move to make a new building came into being   should have room for a lot of track and lots of new ideas about scenes,  guess the only thing now is to decide "around the room" or "table in the middle"

OH Yeah one other thing, and my wife wont admit it but she parks her "baby" under my train board and her baby is a Corvette convertible.   I know she secretly fears my "O" gauge layout landing on her car

here is simple up and down layoug  9X4 1/2

here is one of the street scenes on the little board

too bad there is not some way to get it to my grand kids in Arizona  but aint gonna happen probably cost a fortune to pack it and ship it

Good point. Concerning 2X4's, I found that glueing 1"X4", 40" long pieces on their sides, to make "L" shaped legs are actually stronger than 2X4's. I also glued 1X2's on one edge of 1X4's for the "L Girder" cross supports for the layout.

correct, a 1X2 all by itself is not much.  However a properly engineered brace out of with one of the correct joints,  many to chose from. could me quite strong,  If i do it right i can enclose much f what is seen under the layout.  Lots of lockers for "stuff"