The S-scale Polar Express set - anyone have it?

They're not out yet.

 

If they were, Lionel would be shouting it from the rooftops on their blog and Facebook page.(you'd think...)  Makes no sense to keep them under a bushel.

 

There hasn't even been a pilot model, rapid prototype or production sample of the locomotive shown anywhere.

 

MAYBE a sample will show up at York next week, then again, maybe not.

 

Rusty

I would venture that it is very safe to say that Lionel is going to miss "the Christmas surge/increasing the Polar Express interest" market yet again.  They'd better hope this Polar Express "thing" sustains for yet another year.

 

Having seen the movie, I really don't understand how it has sustained as long as it has.

The AF PE Set is on the Shipping Schedule for OCT 2014, of course shipping schedules in toy trains are very often missed..

They'd better hurry.

While I'm interested in the "nuts and bolts" of the locomotive, big honkin' pilot aside,  I'm much more interested in the NKP set that will be available sometime between 2015 and infinity.

 

Rusty

In 'S GAUGIAN' Magazine Matt Ashba of LIONEL Trains is asked about the PE and, what he seemed to say, is a much more detailed version of the Berkshire made with the same Tooling that they are planning on in the future.

The AMERICAN FLYER Facebook Page mentioned that they have Pre-Production Samples for Review and Testing of the PE and are looking to an end of December delivery..

LIONEL at the TCA Strasburg Museum Presentation had the Sample of the AF Polar Express Set that they were displaying. AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS on Facebook has a few pictures of the Engine. 

From AF facebook page

Looks promising.  That thar sure looks like an NKP style tender.

 

Rusty

I may have to snag one of these for around the tree. It seems to be at least as nice if not nicer than the AM Northern. If the sounds are weak it would be a good candidate to gut the electronics and install a DCC sound decoder with a good 1225 whistle.

That is a wonderful sign. Maybe they will make a Christmas delivery. I look forward to the videos being posted on the tca website.  

I've watched them on the TCA video's over the past few years, they seem to hold everything a little ham-handed, I don't think the venue really allows for good, clear views. 

 

Plus, they're not used to holding anything smaller than O.

 

Rusty

I think that is Matt Aahba holding the tender.  He is Director of Project Planning at Lionel.  He said he would send me the Polar Express he took to York so I could write a review of it for S Gaugian.  I hope to have it in my hands in about two weeks.  I will communicate with him to see.  

If I can I will post good pictures of it here when I get it.

Jonathan, thanks for posting a better broadside shot.

 

Given the price point for the PE set, it looks pretty good for a "train set" locomotive.  Looks far superior to the "Berkshire Jr." the O Gauge guys have.

 

Rusty

Looks extremely nice. I'm glad I ordered one. Lionchief and conventional operation possible, right? Trumps any traditional AF loco.  

Nope. 

 

Set Lionchief loco's are LC control only.  Unless the boys at the Ranch change their minds, the Flyerchief sets will be the same.

 

Only the separate sale LC+ loco's can also be controlled conventionally. 

 

Rusty

I thought I read somewhere there was a special switch. My bad.

Guess that makes it officially "maybe."

 

As the phrase goes: "Features can be verified on the side of the box."

 

Rusty

 

The Lionel catalogues should be taken with a full shaker of salt. The Y-3, the SD-70ACe, and the ES44AC are advertised in the 2012, 2013, and 2014 catalogues as having "AF Speed Control with On/Off switch [that] lets your locomotive operate smoothly and consistently over grades and through curves." That On/Off switch disappeared after the Challengers. Catalogues appear to be cut and paste jobs with a consistent level of inaccuracy that should make anyone wary of pre-ordering--something that Lionel is trying to foster.

 

That looks really nice.  It will be interesting to see what the o gauge guys think of it compared to the PE O Gauge set that has been out. 

 

Ben

Probably be jealous...  Especially if it gets the switch to operate conventionally.

 

Rusty

From what I can see the AM Northern is still the far better engine for detail.

 

Perhaps when they update the tooling for post PE production it may be as good.

Jonathan,

Thanks for posting this.  The tender looks a lot nicer than what was in the catalog.

Do you know which passenger car that is below the loco - one that comes with the set or the one you order separately?  In the catalog, the roof treatment looked different for the set.

 

Thanks, Mike A.

Guys, remember the PE is not designed to compete with other recent Flyonel or the AM Northern in detail.  This is a train set for beginners of a young age. One of their "Ready to Run" sets.

 

I did ask Matt Ashba about its power operation via email.  Here is his answer:

 

 

If you go to the American flyer facebook page you can see all the passenger cars.  There are also some pictures of the turnouts and scale detailed watertower.

Thanks, NotInWI.

 

The car under the loco must be one of the add-on cars.  In the overall picture that shows everything, it looks like the snow on the roof detail might be the same on all the cars, but it's kind of hard to see for sure since the cars are pretty small.

 

Mike A.

I saw this set in the Orange Hall at York today!  The locomotive has detail typical to old Flyer locomotives with the details cast onto the boiler.  It is a fine looking locomotive and the front pilot wheel is well detailed. I am waiting for the non Polar Express locomotive to come out.  IMHO it will be a fine addition to a roster of AF locomotives.  The tender is quite long!

I saw it at York today also.  Very nice.  Not too sure about the painted-on snow on the passenger car roofs though.   Looks kinda weird in person.  If there is snow on the car roofs, why then is there none on some parts of the loco & atop the tender?

 

Steam locomotives are hot.  Snow doesn't like hot.  Tender decks would be kept clean by the crew for safety reasons.

 

Rusty

Hope to have it by Christmas. Only thing I pre-ordered and did it from my LHS.  Will use it around the tree with my O set as well.

Wondering what cab number they'll give the non PE version and if they'll add a mars light (hope so!).

I would expect the set NKP version to be 765.  (It would be a bit of irony if they numbered it 736...)

 

I wouldn't hold your breath for a Mars light on a FlyerChief version.  The only change will likely be the pilot.

 

Rusty

Further back up on 12th October, Gardner indicates that Matt Ashba mentions that the engine will have more detail in the future.  I guess this is post PE production as I would have thought that once the tooling is changed to make any improvements then the PE is a bit dead, unless they produce an enhanced version of it at a higher price. 

 

They could I suppose run a lot of blank PE castings now for amother couple of season runs and slowly feed them out each year before making any changes. Then perhaps the changes may not be to the body castings, except pilot, but to improved motion work and wheels.

 

Again, a very speculative issue that only time will tell

The AM Northern is an all molded detail engine with no cab interior. They are exactly the same as far as I can tell. In fact the berk probably has a detailed cab interior.

Matt Ashba in the S-Gaugian said the Cowcatcher for the PE version is larger and the other models will have a smaller version. He also mentioned, it was a little unclear to me though, that a higher Detail version is being considered using the same base tooling and possibly including the Legacy System. 

To make it more clear what I read, the Scale Detailed Version would not be a PE but a Model of a Prototype Engine and Road-names.

The AM northern has free-standing wire handrails, full valve gear and several other free-standing details.

 

Now, from what I can tell the FlyerChief set Berkshires will have cast on handrails and partial valve gear and few, if any free-standing details.  All this helps to meet the price point and provides less opportunity for the little nippers to poke their eyes out.

 

 

Now, the Lionel FlyerChief Berks will be fine for the for the starter set market and quite possibly even for the "runners" crowd.  I'm looking forward to the NKP Berk myself.

 

The quality of the cast-on details appears to be equal for both locomotives.

 

But, overall detailwise, I think the AM Northern's visible free-standing details trumps a mostly hidden, possible cab interior, cast on handrails, etc. on the FlyerChief Berk.

 

I would expect a full-blown "upscale" Legacy version of the Berkshire to be right up there with the Y3.

 

Rusty

Wow, that P.E. looked so sweet sitting on the shelf at Lionel's York area. Only wish besides adding snow to car roofs that they'd done finished interiors, too!

Perhaps I missed a response somewhere, but some time ago it was mentioned that the tender body was going to be plastic, then at a later date someone said it may be die-cast, so easy question here, is it plastic or did they do it as a die-cast body?

 

The tender is die-cast. I was offered the opportunity to hold both the locomotive and tender for inspection. They are very nice pieces for the money and for their purpose.

 

Bob 

Thank you for posting a photo of the engine, tender and a car!  It looks much nicer than any of the catalog's illustrations.  I am very glad I not only ordered a PE, but the other two sets!  The proportions look very good and the new tender, be it plastic or die cast is a nice one.  Now to see when it actually arrives!

 

By the way, regarding the AM Northern, a few years ago I made up a kit for adding an interior to the cab.  I offered them for sale, but not many folks bought it.  Not too detailed, but once installed, it's hard to see anyway.  This photo is of a prototype.  The production versions look better. (I hope this picture comes through...)

Jerry

The tca video of the manufactures presentations (Lionel included) is posted at the TCA museum website.  There is some good video and discussion of the set on there. Check it out.  

 

Ben 

Jerry,

 

Do you still have these kits available?

 

Steve

From the close-ups in the TCA video it looks like the AF PE has a Lionchief Plus type of Wireless Tether.

I have no S but I think the PE will change that. 

MartyE

 

i hope for the good of S many share your feelings...

 

ben  

Wow.  I think the new Berk looks great.  I had been a little worried after seeing the catalog illustrations that we would get a scaled-down S gauge version of Lionel's O27 starter locomotive.  Instead, we get scale proportions and, apparently die cast construction.  Looks great to me.  If ACG had built a Van Sweringen 2-8-4, it would look like this.  I can't wait to get the prototypical pilot and the NKP and C&O road names.  I think Flyonel hit the sweet spot of the S gauge market with this one.

Interestingly enough I have heard from more than 1 O-Gauge operator that the S Polar Express is of great interest to them.  I do think Lionel has possibly made a set that will cross gauges.

 

I think this may be the sleeper set of the season.

 

 

I hope you are right Marty, I also hope we get these in time for our displays before Christmas this year, I think the kids will love them. "Michael row them boats ashore".

Ray

The PE set looks great but I am really looking forward to the other two Berk sets; i.e,. the NKP freight set and the C&O passenger set.  If they are produced, I will purchase one of each.  I am wondering if there was any news on these sets at York?

I don't quite understand releasing the PE but not the other sets around the same time.  It would seem the best way to make use of production slots.

 

Maybe marketing figures the other sets would siphon customers away from the PE set.

 

Rusty

 

Usually, the rolling stock for a set and the locomotive are not made at the same time. Once completed, the set contents are gathered and boxed together. This is the way that Gilbert and Lionel Corp. did things in 'the old days', as well. Given the tightness of the production queue these days, there can be a considerable time lag between when the early items and the last are finished. YMMV.

 

Bob

I learned LONG ago (remember the SD40-2?... the Hudson?) that if you want Lionel to actually MAKE something that they announce, you had better pre-order the item.  When the SD40-2 was announced I, and perhaps many others, didn't understand how the company worked.  That's why I pre-ordered both new Berk sets.  Check with your favorite dealer for details. 

 

However, I know of at least two other guys who are waiting for the upgraded Berk.  The one said to follow the new one, that is, with better detailing and electronics.  Either way, this locomotive and cars will be a good thing for S. 

 

I've been on record for saying that the TMCC and Legacy systems are not for me for a number of reasons.  These new Berk sets are just the ticket.  So for others like me, it's time to "put my money where my mouth is".  However, I don't think ANYONE has enough money to cover my big mouth.

 

Jerry

As I recall, the Hudson died because of the high anticipated MSRP. ($500.00+) in a time when very good quality Gilbert Hudsons could still be had for around $125.00. 

 

Also, they weren't being offered in NYC, only Wabash and Santa Fe, IIRC.

 

Sound was still the over-glorified white noise generator and there was no command control of any stripe available from Lionel at the time.

 

As far as the SD40,  I suspect Lionel changed their mind because a modern diesel loco was so alien to the Flyer market at the time.

 

Plus, the pre-order mentality back then wasn't what it is today.

 

I'm waiting to order the NKP set, but my LHS has to go through a distributor and has no way of ordering one yet because it's not in the database.

 

Rusty

>>  I don't quite understand releasing the PE but not the
other sets around the same time. 

 

One possible answer is that Lionel might produce several items at the same time for production efficiency reasons, but only releases some of them for sale initially.   Others are "held back" until later to give consumers time to replenish their cash and have full wallets once again.  I believe this practice is common with diesels which have various paint schemes.  Perhaps this strategy is also being used with the Polar Express and other Berkshire sets?  Just a thought without any facts to support it in this case.  Imagination is an important part of model railroading (grin)  Ed L.

I know that I am one O gauger that is interested in the S-PE.  When I do get one, it will be my around-the-tree set.

 

And it won't be my first modern S.  I've already picked up the new A/F Mint Cars, since I collect them, no matter the scale.  Might even get an additional loco and a cabin car somewhere down the line.

 

Andy

Assuming it arrives in time I will now have a G, O and S Polar Express around the tree.  I picked up some extra S fastrack at the Warehouse Sale last night so i am stoked.  Can't wait to get it in.  Truth be told, If there were the selection and pricing in S that there is with O then i would have to rethink my grand plans.  HO is just too small as my eyes continue to age but S seems the perfect compromise.  Good thing that won't be happening as I can't part with my O stuff!

The PE engine/tender is nice looking.  Haven't followed too closely concerning the PE stuff... but will it puff smoke?  If so... could be a candidate for Christmas Tree duty at the Ming household.

It is supposed to have a fan driven smoke unit Andre.

Still showing December 14 on the shipping schedule.  Now that the Polar Express videos and photos are popping up I am really super stoked about getting this one!

I spoke with a Lionel rep today at Trainland.  The American Flyer Polar express set will NOT be delivered in time for Christmas.  He said they just were made aware of this in an email.

I had been told at the s fest that part of the hang up was due to warner bros (or whoever owns the rights) took longer than expected to approve the sample they were provided and that that added to the missed Christmas date.  

 

I am more worried that missing the Christmas shopping season will effect the timely spread of s gauge to new blood via this starter set. I am sure there are many current o gauge enthusiast that started with the O gauge PE set. I would hate to see potential new s gaugers lost this season to an O PE starter set because of this delay.  

 

My 3 year old is also gunna have to wait till 4 to get a s gauge PE for Christmas too...

 

Ben. 

Doug Peck of Port Lines just sent out information today that the Polar Express is now to be shipped on February 15th.  A sad Christmas notice.

Nothing says happy Easter like a polar express train running around a basket full or colored eggs.  

 

Not it at all bitter about this...

 

Ben. 

Sad but okay with it.  Would rather have a delay in it than getting it in with problems.  I'll just have to have 2 loops of O and a G under the tree this year.

this is a sad state of affairs, I do not know many business's that can just keep stringing people along, there is no question in my mind that Lionel knew this early on and just keep stringing people right up to the due date. I have managed offshore operation for many many years and one thing for sure is diliveries where always communicated back and forth and everyone knew what to expect in advance. I am just disappointed with Lionel and there lack of ability or desire to publish realistic delivery, no need to mention the smoking caboose, switches, etc. 

Re: the PE tender, are you guys sure it was die-cast? The catalog says plastic tender.

 

I had a chance to view Lionel's S-scale Fastrack at the hobby shop and it took my breath away. I mean, it is very realistic and just plain speaks "railroading." I've been in 3-rail all my life and have seen some fine 3-rail layouts with nice track systems, but nothing comes close to well-done 2-rail - that is what real trains travel on, isn't it (been in 3-rail too long, LOL).

The catalog is incorrect, in both illustration and description. (No great surprise there.)  The Lionel boys mentioned the tender was now die-cast on the TCA presentation video.

 

Rusty