Thoughts about the MTH thumbwheel mechanical failures

I own and have regularly used 5 remotes for an average of 4-5 years each. Further, for one or two of these I was not he original owner. I have never had a thumbwheel failure.

The only issues I've ever encountered were when a transceiver board floated out of its socket. This was corrected in such a way that it never happened twice with the same remote.

My big complaint with the remote has always been the looseness of the batteries in the battery compartment.

put a piece of thick door foam gap insulation under the bending mount of the thumbwheel when you install the new one. It gives it a much firmer feel and helps it from breaking.

That's a good idea Engineer-Joe. I have used a much lighter touch on the thumbwheel since having to replace mine about a year ago. Didn't think I was pressing on it that hard before, but I am now more careful about pressing it and try to use a lighter touch.

Dave,

In my case the answer is yes on both counts.  I try to give it a light touch, but there are times when I press the thumb wheel and nothing seems to happen so I press a little (or a lot) harder.  I bought a spare thumb wheel, but I think I'll try to fix it again with crazy glue and I'll try Joe's door foam idea.

when you push the roller in the whole assembly moves and then pushes a rubber special Matt that then makes contact under the rubber Matt.It is not a switch your making but a physical rubber contact that make's up on the circuit board, so it should not take hardly any pressure at all to make the contact, sometimes the 3 wires that connect the roller assembly to the circuit board get behind the roller assembly and that can be why it is hard to push. It should push real easy if assembled correctly.

Alan

Barry,

   The only reason you have not worn out a thumb wheel is that you own so many DCS hand held remote controls you spread out the wheel usage, I owned just one for many years, and it finally needed the wheel replaced, have 2 now and they should last twice as long, if I pick up a 3rd more than likely, I will never wear one out again.  It's a poor engineering design for the consumer, and a money maker for MTH.  

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

The only reason you have not worn out a thumb wheel is that you own so many DCS hand held remote controls you spread out the wheel usage

No, that's really not it.

I pretty much spread regular use over two different layout remotes and one on the work bench. The other 3 get lighter usage, however, one of the two that I use on the layout regularly is one that I've used steadily for 10 years or more.

Also, I use Quickset Speed a lot to change speed, which involves two pushes of the thumbwheel for every speed change.

I truly believe that the key to long life of the remote's thumbwheel is to use the remote with only the amount of force necessary to get it to do what one wants it to do. If someone is going to use more force than is necessary, or has a heavy-handed approach to using the remote, I expect that that is what will cause the thumbwheel to break.

I repaired one as i had no spare..here are the internals.Lubed with electronic cleaner, still works today. Advanced electronic skills required. Best to buy a new one.

willygee,

     Bill you can bet I will send you any repair/upgrade work that I have on my DCS hand held remote controls, your upgrades on my others have been just fantastic, and the rework of the thumb wheel is perfect.  I will never try to repair one myself.  I still believe MTH needs to upgrade the engineering on this thumb wheel, to me they should not wear out, heavy handed or not, the engineering should hold up for a longevity.

PCRR/Dave

I think... that the thumbwheel's bracket just flexes enough to allow the wheel to press the switch. I have been also using my remote outside. I'm not sure if that heat from the summer has any effect on the plastic?

 It would be cool if they made it pivot on some type of axis instead of flexing. My original remote lasted so many years (almost ten) before breaking that I'm not sure any change is needed.

 I have a new remote that is still stock inside and works fine.

I'm excited to get the new app as it makes scrolling thru engines and stuff so much faster and painless. I'm running with my computer as well and I can select any of the 99 addresses super fast. Getting the new app for 999 engines makes me wonder how much I'll use the remote down the road. I have a feeling I'll use a combination of the two for whatever makes it easiest.

I didn't know this was a problem until you said it, but I'm fairly new to DCS. My remote was recently manufactured. The newer remotes come with a piece of foam glued to the battery door. The batteries stay put. Maybe a recent change from MTH?

My remote was recently manufactured. The newer remotes come with a piece of foam glued to the battery door.

Try this.

Tap your remote sharply on the nose or the tail. That should cause the batteries to shift enough to turn it off.

MTH has been putting a piece of foam in the battery compartment door for years. It helps a little, just not enough.

Again I am newer and certainly respect your expertise. I have been using the remote for about five months and have not noticed an issue. I will tap on it tonight.

I have been using the remote for about five months and have not noticed an issue. I will tap on it tonight.

That's because you aren't heavy-handed and treat the device with respect!  

All good points, especially about using flexing plastic to behave spring-like. How many times can plastic bend before it breaks? Come to think of it, I've never seen a plastic spring.

I posted this under the hypnosis hypothesis that the contacts may be dirty, forcing the user to (perhaps without thinking) press a bit harder to get it to function. If you're like me, you've had at least a few TV or cable box remotes who's buttons are also hard to press, and it's not surprising that they are common buttons like "Channel up" or "Volume". These are referenced in my post of remotes I've been able to fix by cleaning.

As a "Select" button, I would surmise that it's probably the most heavily used button of any (if one were to count the number of presses of each button, including this one, during a normal "run").

Therefore, being so important, I wish it wasn't the most mechanically complicated piece of the entire remote. But, I will try the foam-backing idea to minimize future failures (time to scrounge around the house and find some!

Could we get Otter Box to make a case for it?

Gentlemen,

   Got to admit mine lasted about 10 years before it failed, I am not heavy handed with my remotes however.  My problem is I believe everything should be engineered and made to last for ever, my fathers original Lionel Tin Plate Train still runs perfectly.  I hope the MTH P2 reproduction operates the same way as time progresses.

PCRR/Dave

Yesterday, I did my second crazy glue repair (this time both sides of the bracket were broken) and tried the door foam idea.  I used 3/16” thick foam.  So far, I’m not too crazy about it.  It kind of requires you to have a heavy thumb and the thumbwheel is harder to turn.  Maybe it will wear in

It shouldn't effect the thumbwheel. Maybe you have it on the wrong place? Look closely at where I have it.

I would recommend that people replace broken thumbwheels. The bracket needs to be sturdy. The piece of foam, helps the new bracket from being pushed too hard.

 Ray's Electric trainworks has them in stock.

http://www.rayman4449.com/

Ray's is just south of me about 15 min. My LHS doesn't carry any MTH parts, just the trains so I usually just order from MTH. I found Ray's website several years ago and I think they were just getting started and didn't appear to have much at the time. I had forgotten all about them. Will have to get in touch with them, this would be really great for getting MTH parts, could just go pick them up and might even get to see some of the stuff they have pictured on the website while there. Thanks for posting the link.

Joe,

I stuck the foam to the bottom of the remote case below the thumbwheel.  It looks like yours is stuck to the red/yellow/green wires and also looks like there is some wear on the foam from the thumbwheel.  My remote is a little different than yours (the small PC board in mine is secured to the bottom of the case).  I already have a new thumbwheel assembly and I’ll put it in if this one breaks again.

Bob

No, there's no wear from the thumbwheel that I see in there in person. The foam piece itself is very thick (3/4"??) and made in two layers.

 It needs to contact the side of the thumbwheel's mounting bracket. It shouldn't touch the thumbwheel at all. Mounting it to the back of the case might be a better idea as long as you can put it in the right place to not interfere with the wheel.

I got it Joe.  You stuck the foam to the small board that’s part of the thumbwheel assembly.  What I thought was a wear mark is the seam between the two pieces of foam.  It might just work out anyway.  Either I’m getting used to it or it is wearing in.  The thumbwheel doesn’t seem as hard to roll as it did a few days ago.

Update: I received a replacement Thumb-wheel assembly, soldered it in and mounted it. Probably obviously, it works perfect. Moreover, I'm much more cognizant of the pressure I put on it when pressing "Select".

Though I lacked weather stripping as suggested by another, I did place double-stick tape on the back, leaving the peel-off side in-place. My goal was to provide a firm stopping point (against the back) to avoid cracking the plastic hinges, and give a slick surface for scrolling the thumb-wheel (the paper I did not peal off the inside).

The process was not as hap-hazard as it sounds, as I had previously played with various project box self-adhesive rubber feet to get a sense on how much depth I truly had to work with. Some where too great (the wheel wouldn't scroll), and some were useless (you could press to infinity, or as far as you could press).

I could be wrong, but the double-stick tape is much firmer than weather stripping, so it gives a distinct tactile "feel" when to stop pressing (and breaking plastic parts).

In other-words, the "feel" more closely matches the point of making electrical contact (without the ability to press so far as to cause damage way beyond the point of activating the function).

Of course an MTH upgraded design in this specific area would be ideal, but I digress...

Whatever works for you is correct! I like the idea of a limit of the pressing distance.

The sponge, helps against accidental presses when scrolling. Gives it a firmer feel. That would be the only advantage I could see.

 If you don't press harder than needed, all this is not needed anyways. Some people press so hard, that you can hear the plastic case creaking from distress!

Well...that's not totally true. In a frantic pace to record an MTH sequence, I'm very certain I've pressed MUCH harder than necessary. My fault, and I'll confess to such.

But, the point someone else made about having plastic as the "hinge" (or spring) is still valid.

Moreover, everyone has omitted the fact that the on the MTH DCS remote the button that is pressed by the thumb-wheel is only on the right-side, not both sides (meaning not an either/or combination). While seemingly insignificant, it inherently places more stress on the right side of the assembly (by mechanical design). Whereas, if two buttons were placed on either side (and either one would functionally serve as "Select"), there would be less physical stress on one side.

Yea, I've noticed that my thumb-wheel (when viewed from the back where the RJ-15 jack is) is visibly crooked. It's a design tolerance I've come to accept, but I think a better design is very much possible.

We have five MTH remotes at our club. Thumb wheels were constantly broken by excessive and undo pressure. One of our club MTH techs made a statement that helped curb the problem, "THE THUMB WHEEL IS NOT YOUR ENEMY!" 

I have a feeling any new thumbwheel design will be in the screen of your smart phone.