TIU software update

G;

You can avoid switching to ver. 10 in at least 2 ways.

1. turn off auto update or set it so you decide what to do when MS notifies you of an update.

2. use a PC that MS judges to be not capable of Win 10 upgrade.

I currently have at least 1 desktop (HP slimline) that MS just recently said was not a candidate for the Win 10 upgrade! It runs Win 7 Pro and I also found info on the web about why it is not a candidate and what to do to make it acceptable as a Win 10 candidate.

I'm currently evaluating whether to make it acceptable or ignore Win 10 on that particular machine.

I think your wise to ignore Win 10 if it might interfere with your income production!

Ray

Ray,

I also use a program called GWX Control Panel. It allows you to disable the windows 10 update notification in the lower right corner, remove the update file s for windows 10, and disable automatic updates from installing windows 10. You can turn these features on later with it also.

h1000

Ray,

I don't know if it would or not -- just wondering.

I can assure that "if you plugged in the USB cable to your TIU BEFORE downloading the dealer loader" it would not make even the slightest bit of dfifferene, except that, depending upon the flavor of Windows and the manufacturer of the PC, Windows might well have loaded the driver software, if it had not already had it available on George's PC.

Are you still of the opinion that I had to download the drivers because I didn't keep my PC up to date with the latest software updates from the Microsoft Update Service?

I think that would apply in any number of cases, as evidenced by other's responses to this thread.

I will add that a good part of the problem is that the implementation of Windows is inconsistent, and perhaps even a bit chaotic, across different manufacturer's of PCs. Further, the constantly changing, and I don't mean evolving, nature of Windows "look and feel" further adds to the confusion.

As an aside, calling Windows a "standard" is a bit of a contradiction, since implementation of Windows varies so much from PC to PC, and version to version.

Thanks Barry -- I agree with your remarks.

H1000 posted:

Ray,

I also use a program called GWX Control Panel. It allows you to disable the windows 10 update notification in the lower right corner, remove the update file s for windows 10, and disable automatic updates from installing windows 10. You can turn these features on later with it also.

h1000

H1000;

Thanks for the info -- good to know in case I decide to go with that approach!

GGG posted:

I can't answer your question.  I know on my XP I did have to down load the extra file for Rev L.  For my current program I did not, but it is an all in one and only has USB ports, and lots of them.  So maybe that type of soft ware was installed by OEM since serial port not on this.

I also know my computer works with the USB to serial adapter cable which I needed to upgrade non Rev L TIUs.

I have been a little leery switching to Window's 10 because I can't afford any glitches at this point in the train repair season.  G

George: Oh boy, yes, I too am very leery of all those "free upgrade" popups I would like to block on my Win7 machine!!

RayL posted:

...

...

The only part I would question is the contention, by some, that the drivers were acquired via Microsoft Update service as would happen when you make an explicit request for a driver update OR through the normal scheduled Update process that we can configure within Windows.

I have tried the explicit request through a right mouse click on the device icon in Device Manager many times and it always failed to find the drivers on the Microsoft Update server.

...

Hi RayL,

I did a test with a Win7 laptop that I am not using since 2011.

As you will see in the screenshots attached, It appears that Windows has installed the missing driver, directly from Microsoft.

As per my first post, for some reasons, it is only after a reboot that the "magic" did occur.

The screenshots are showing the sequence:

1. Windows Version

2. Connect TIU Rev.L to PC via USB

3. Use Windows Troubleshoot

4. Windows Detecting Problems

5. Windows confirms driver missing

6. Windows is looking for driver

7. Windows did not find a driver... well for now

8. I Did not give up...  Simply did a reboot... and Restarted exactly the same process with Troubleshoot... et Voila !

Note: It took a really long time for Windows to complete the driver search/install.  I have just let it go and never interrupted the process.

To be sure that it was really fully operational after the driver installation, I did a new DCS5.0 update on the TIU.  All good.

Conclusion:  hum... not sure what to conclude :-)  But it did worked for me with 3 different PCs,  with 3 different Windows versions, and without looking for any driver anywhere else than at Microsoft.

Daniel

 

Daniel, Is your computer running a 32 or 64 bit version of windows? H1000

H1000 posted:

Daniel, Is your computer running a 32 or 64 bit version of windows? H1000

32 bit

 

Daniel Auger posted:

H1000 posted:

Daniel, Is your computer running a 32 or 64 bit version of windows? H1000

32 bit

 

Sorry, I should have also asked Home or Pro.

H1000

H1000 posted:

Daniel Auger posted:

H1000 posted:

Daniel, Is your computer running a 32 or 64 bit version of windows? H1000

32 bit

 

Sorry, I should have also asked Home or Pro.

H1000

See attached picture.

Daniel

cnwdon:  Those popups can be eliminated.  I did it right after W10 came out.  Google the issue and you'll see how.  I'd say how to do it but I forgot how

Purely FWIW here, and I can't say about my drivers needed for my MTH items, not sure where they came from, but I don't recall installing them in Win 7? I can say that Windows Update has listed updates for some of my video cards over the years. I can't recall all the exact devices as it's been a while.

I can also say that I am currently using the built in Intel CPU (i5 & i7 cpus) graphics on two PCs and I get notifications from Windows Update for new drivers for these. They are in the 'Optional' update category below the 'Important' ones, but they still come from Windows Update and Intel is 3rd party. I have not yet tried communicating with my Rev L TIU from Win 10.

rtr12 posted:

Purely FWIW here, and I can't say about my drivers needed for my MTH items, not sure where they came from, but I don't recall installing them in Win 7? I can say that Windows Update has listed updates for some of my video cards over the years. I can't recall all the exact devices as it's been a while.

I can also say that I am currently using the built in Intel CPU (i5 & i7 cpus) graphics on two PCs and I get notifications from Windows Update for new drivers for these. They are in the 'Optional' update category below the 'Important' ones, but they still come from Windows Update and Intel is 3rd party. I have not yet tried communicating with my Rev L TIU from Win 10.

rtr12;

I haven't been online lately -- been doing some system upgrades and testing.

A few hours ago, I verified the Rev. L TIU drivers are downloaded from the MS update servers when using MS Windows 10.

I also verified it works for Win XP Pro ver. 2002 SP3 32 bit and Win 7 Pro SP1 64 bit.

I'm in the process of verifying it works for Win 8 or 8.1 and I'm still trying to understand why it fails for Win 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit.

I sure would like for someone "out there" to perform a test for me on their PC if it is

Win 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit.

The test would consist of first uninstalling the ftdibus.sys and ftser2k.sys drivers by using the uninstall feature within the device manager and be sure to check the box that says to delete the drivers.

The next step is to plug in the TIU into the USB port on the PC and see if the drivers get loaded!

If I can't find a volunteer, I setup a machine for that purpose and report what happens.

I'm wondering if it might be the case that this problem only occurs with the particular version of Windows I mentioned above (Win7 HP SP1 64 bit).

I also sent an email to the FTDI chip manufacturer's US office (to the support folks) asking if they have heard of anything like this. They have an Application Note (AN_119) on their website dealing with the issue of their drivers in Windows 7, but after reading the note, I wasn't able to see anything that helped me.

More to follow ...

Ray

Daniel Auger posted:

RayL posted:

...

...

The only part I would question is the contention, by some, that the drivers were acquired via Microsoft Update service as would happen when you make an explicit request for a driver update OR through the normal scheduled Update process that we can configure within Windows.

I have tried the explicit request through a right mouse click on the device icon in Device Manager many times and it always failed to find the drivers on the Microsoft Update server.

...

Hi RayL,

I did a test with a Win7 laptop that I am not using since 2011.

As you will see in the screenshots attached, It appears that Windows has installed the missing driver, directly from Microsoft.

As per my first post, for some reasons, it is only after a reboot that the "magic" did occur.

The screenshots are showing the sequence:

1. Windows Version

2. Connect TIU Rev.L to PC via USB

3. Use Windows Troubleshoot

4. Windows Detecting Problems

5. Windows confirms driver missing

6. Windows is looking for driver

7. Windows did not find a driver... well for now

8. I Did not give up...  Simply did a reboot... and Restarted exactly the same process with Troubleshoot... et Voila !

Note: It took a really long time for Windows to complete the driver search/install.  I have just let it go and never interrupted the process.

To be sure that it was really fully operational after the driver installation, I did a new DCS5.0 update on the TIU.  All good.

Conclusion:  hum... not sure what to conclude :-)  But it did worked for me with 3 different PCs,  with 3 different Windows versions, and without looking for any driver anywhere else than at Microsoft.

Daniel

 

Daniel;

You're a true Renaissance man! That was a heroic effort!

I see you're using Enterprise Win 7 -- that's a new wrinkle!

Did you or do you have a machine with Win 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit to try the experiment?

My conclusion is the same as yours -- hmmm...

I'll update this thread with my results -- probably tomorrow.

Ray

RayL posted:

 

...

Did you or do you have a machine with Win 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit to try the experiment?

...

Hi RayL,

No, I don`t.

Daniel

Daniel;

OK, I'll setup one of my machines.

I'll let you know.

Ray

Here is and update I can offer with my testing. Up to now I have been testing Professional versions of 64 bit MS operating systems. My next primary focus is just Windows 7  Service Pack 1, Home & Professional (Enterprise is nearly identical to Pro and figure the results should be the same) and  I have both the Retail and OEM versions. 

I have found that the 32 bit versions of Professional (OEM only) did not have the driver installed and needed to be downloaded from MS update. I did not have to reboot the VM to install the driver but it did take longer to install (locate and download time I assume).

I then recalled a problem I had with my wife's laptop (HP ProBook - Win 7 Pro 32 bit) a few years ago. I had a tough time installing a basic MP3 player that I had no problems with on my Dell laptop and had to install those drivers manually.  I plugged my TIU into that HP laptop and sure enough no driver found plus a new problem.  Her HP couldn't locate a driver online either.  Did some more investigation into that machine and determined that Automatic Updates were turned on and the computer was up to date.  There is however a a setting that allows windows update to search automatically for hardware drivers when windows is unable to locate one already on the computer. This was set to "Never install driver software from Windows Update"

You can find this setting by right clicking "COMPUTER" and selecting "Properties" and clicking on "Advance system settings".   Goto the "Hardware" tab and click on "Device Installation Settings"

I was able to download the driver without issue when I changed the setting to "Install driver software from Windows Update if it is not found on my computer." I went a bit further to find out how windows was configured this way and reloaded my wife's laptop from the factory image (on a different hard drive of course!).  Sure enough, this was set from the factory by HP, not Microsoft.  The retail & oem installations on my VMWARE system were not set this way from the original installation.  I did check my work computer (HP ProDesk G400) and it was set to ask me to search windows update for the drivers when new devices are plugged in, so HP didn't change this setting on all of their computers (why? I don't know).

I believe that Micro$oft had every intention to make this driver available, by either including it on the original installation or via Microsoft Update.  However, it is beyond their control (and MTH) to know how the OEM's will modify the installation of windows. I surely hope that nobody expected Microsoft or MTH to test every possible Brand, Make, Model and configuration of PC / laptop out since the release of the TIU ver. L. Obviously there was an issue created by a combination of the specific OS installed and how the OEM installed that OS on the computer at the factory. MTH did their part when the issue was brought to their attention and released the News Flash.

Any questions? Please ask!
Too much computer stuff for me today, I want some run time with my trains!!

H1000;

Another Renaissance man! A very elegant and thorough analysis -- I agree with your last paragraph beginning with "I believe ...". You zeroed in on the real issue here -- what OEMs do is anybody's guess!

I notice the dialog boxes differ a little (within the same version such as 7) based on some combination of  bit size (32 vs. 64), edition (pro, home, enterprise, etc.) and builder (MS or an OEM).

I've included 2 views of the dialog boxes you mention (I checked them after reading your post) and what you see is the settings I've always had.

You can see they differ slightly from yours.

I wonder if your analysis will convince the skeptics who believe this issue was a result of my not keeping my system "up to date" via the Windows Update Service? (probably not!).

We can be thankful for the "H1000's" of the model railroad community and lets not forget VMWARE!

Thanks again for your valiant efforts.

Ray

Very interesting thread and technical issue. The personal sacrifice, time, thoroughness, professionalism, and textbook problem solving approach invested to resolve this issue for the benefit of the forum members is truly admirable.

Certainty pays to understand all the facts before drawing conclusions.