To ROSS, or not to ROSS? Looking for some help...

I have 4 Ross Custom switches and like them much better then the Lionel switches I took out. You will need adapter pins to go to 027 track for your needs, no height issue to be concerned with as Ross switches are about the same height as 027 track. Ross Custom switches work much better then any current Lionel switch.

You can buy the Ross switches with DZ-1000 switch motors installed on them, when bought that way they have the center rail connected to both output tracks. They can be wired for anti-derailing feature if you get the wiring diagram from either Ross, Gargraves  or DZ Industries website.

FYI; I am using Ross switches instead of Gargraves which I started out with about 7 years ago as Ross switches work better with my MTH steam engines, no derailments with Ross.

Lee Fritz

It depends on what you're running. If you're running prewar tinplate, according to Steve at RCS, his switches will give you a problem due to the deep flanges. I did a lot of research on this a couple of years ago and was surprised at what I found. So far the only modern switches I've found that are truly compatible with all O-gauge trains are the RMT (formerly K-Line, now O-Line Reproductions) switches.  

At this point I would not buy any other brand of switch than Ross.  Its 100% American made quality at a competitive price. IMO, they are simply the best.   If you plan to use these switches with anything other than Ross or Gargraves track, give them a call and find out what they recommend. IIRC, at one time Ross made a version of a tinplate compatible track but again call and you will receive an honest answer.

BlueComet400 posted:

It depends on what you're running. If you're running prewar tinplate, according to Steve at RCS, his switches will give you a problem due to the deep flanges. I did a lot of research on this a couple of years ago and was surprised at what I found. So far the only modern switches I've found that are truly compatible with all O-gauge trains are the RMT (formerly K-Line, now O-Line Reproductions) switches.  

Agree, first question is what equipment you will be running. Pre-war? Marx? Post War? Modern? I think some older engines with big gears won't work with modern track and some sliding pick-up shoes may snag on the guard rails.  The idea of hand switching sounds great!

Even a perfectly running railroad can't be disaster free! Head-on's, side swipes, etc, etc.,

BlueComet400 posted:

It depends on what you're running. If you're running prewar tinplate, according to Steve at RCS, his switches will give you a problem due to the deep flanges. I did a lot of research on this a couple of years ago and was surprised at what I found. So far the only modern switches I've found that are truly compatible with all O-gauge trains are the RMT (formerly K-Line, now O-Line Reproductions) switches.  

Right now all of my locomotives are LionChief Plus and I don't forsee any deviation or change from that format in the future. The four (4) that I have at the present time fulfill my needs when it comes to appearance, ease of operation and enjoyment from the sights and sounds. If anything...as new models are released there could be some additions to the current fleet.

Right now I'm leaning toward using the Ross Custom 042 Switches...the manual models with Caboose Ind 208s throws...I think it will make my layout a more hands-on operation and add additional interest. The six (6) that would replace the current Lionel 042 switches are all located (see attached plan) at the front of my new layout and would be very reachable. At sometime in the future, I might replace others...of course, those being less accessable, would have to be replaced with Ross remote units...

New Layout:

Do the non-derail thing! If you don't, you WILL regret it! My 72" Ross switches are mated to Atlas O. No problems. Can't say anything about tubular though.

Go Ross and don't look back.

I still throw some Ross or Gargraves switches with the manual throws.  Nice change of pace....but there is no right or wrong answer on this one.  It's just what you prefer......but you WILL forget to throw a manual switch at least once.  Guaranteed! 

The one suggestion I have regarding your ground throws. Paint the head red (switched) / green (straight). We have done this on our modular layout and it gives a quick visual of where you locomotive is headed.

Gilly@N&W posted:

The one suggestion I have regarding your ground throws. Paint the head red (switched) / green (straight). We have done this on our modular layout and it gives a quick visual of where you locomotive is headed.

 

Thanks Gilly...had that idea in my notes...being 70 something, I need all of the visual reminders that I can get!!!

I have 19 RCS turnouts on my soon to be dissembled () conventional Tabletop layout - I have purchased a Legacy system but did not have the chance to install it.  I have DZ1000s on all the turnouts, except the five nearest the control area.  For the manual turnouts, I have manual caboose industry throws as Gilly shows above.  While I may occasionally have a minor derailment, for me, its more fun to have to remember to throw the manual switch or press the button on the powered switches.

Jim

Dennis LaGrua posted:

At this point I would not buy any other brand of switch than Ross.  Its 100% American made quality at a competitive price. IMO, they are simply the best.   If you plan to use these switches with anything other than Ross or Gargraves track, give them a call and find out what they recommend. IIRC, at one time Ross made a version of a tinplate compatible track but again call and you will receive an honest answer.

We have over 50 ROSS turnouts on the CL&W.  Settled on ROSS after evaluating Atlas, Lionel, FasTrack , and some other that escapes me at the moment and ROSS met all our requirements.  Customer support is outstanding; you can call and talk with Steve himself.  The big trick we learned to enhance the reliability was to float the switch itself (not screwed down) and secure it to the tracks by the track itself.  This allows the switch base to flex slightly which is not a problem.  Screwing down the switch itself often warps it just enough to not allow it to function smoothly as designed.

And the newer ROSS switches appear to be even better constructed than those of 6-10 years ago.

I have used probably 30 Ross switches over the years. Only 1 bad DZ2500 controller, and that was replaced quickly and with no questions.

I also agree strongly with not screwing down the actual switch itself - they work much better if you attach the track in and out of them.  I learned that technique a good 10 years ago, and it has worked flawlessly.

Go for Ross, they work great, and Steve is always there for assistance if needed.

You can go wrong with Ross switches and you can't go wrong with Steve...a long-standing and  true supporter of the hobby.

Ross Switches are very high quality. Just like the owner.

I run 36 Ross switches thru dcs and have found them a quality product and extremely reliable. Steve is knowledgeable and always available with advice and info. You can't go wrong.

I'm leaning towards Ross switches on my new layout. Aren't they a bit more difficult to wire for non-derail ?

Can't say if Ross switches are any easier, or harder, to wire for derail. But, if I can do it, anybody can!

My four Ross switches are wired for derail. Works fine! Just a matter of soldering two additional leads is all.

Terry,

No cutting of the track at all ?   I've seen a few ways of doing this - both cutting the center rail or as you described.

Mike

Depends, Mike.

RCS switches come with a diagram showing how to do it. That diagram is not as clear as it might be.

The rails requiring the additional leads for non-derail are already insulated from the rest of the switch.

All that you need to do is solder the leads to the insulated rails and use an insulated rail joiner on the other end of that rail. In one case, I decided I wanted to try a longer insulated section to allow a high speed train to trip the non-derail feature. With just using an insulated rail joiner at the switch proper, it is conceivable a fast train would derail before the switch had completed its movement. Hasn't happened to me yet, mind, but I guess it could. My layout is not a high-speed enviroment. In that case, I did cut the rail with a Dremel tool. The insulated section can be as long as you like. As soon as the loco wheels close the circuit by crossing the insulated joint, the switch flips.

All this sounds a lot more confusing that it really is BTW. Don't let that get to you. I LOVE the non-derail feature! Very glad I did it. It's a small nuisance at the time. After doing your first one, it's a cinch!

We use Ross switches at NJ Hirailers. Excellent product and made in U.S.A. 

Good evening Paul, as everyone else mentioned above Ross is the switch or turnout of choice.

When I first got back into O gauge about 20 years ago I seen the Ross Switch's and the Gargraves track at my local train shop and I was hooked and never looked back.

Steve is a great guy to work with and his crew are very helpful when you have a question or placing an order.

I seen you asked about hand throws and on my layout I have several Caboose Industries hand throws on the switch's that are easy to reach.

Reason for this is if I have visitors over and sometimes you can't get back to the control panel to throw a switch or you have a brain fart and you are away from the control panel you can easily throw the hand throw and divert a derailment. Most people that visit you tell them what to do and they will stand in that area and operate the hand throw after or before the train passes.

If there is a derailment you can blame them for not throwing the switch and causing delays on the railroad, just joking of course !!!!!

As mentioned earlier paint the hand throw red for the turnout and green for the straight thru position, this is very helpful very simple.

I have 3 switch's that are in the middle of my layout and over the holidays I programed these 3 switch's into my DCS remote and a DCS AIU, which I was surprised they worked the first time with no head scratching "what did I do wrong this time" !!!!

These 3 switch's have the Z Stuff DZ-1000 style switch motors. Very reliable product from Z Stuff.

Check out Ross's Lighted Switch Stand Item # 50 adds a nice detail to the switch, and when powered up looks great.

I don't think you will regret going the Ross Switch route.

Good luck and have fun !!!!!!

I think Ross are the best switches on the O-Gauge market!

Yes, the feature works on both the non-diversion and the diversion route. Again though, no center rail is ever cut! Also only the side of the switch shown in the image is changed for this operation. The other end of the switch, not shown at all in the image, is not affected or changed in any way. Just connect it to the track normally. ONLY TWO RAILS ARE EVER INVOLVED HERE! Never the center rail and never more than the two COMMON RAILS INDICATED IN THE IMAGE! The other common rails are also not affected or changed in any way.

Hope this clears it up? This is not a difficult procedure. Most complicated part of it is soldering the leads to the insulated rail sections.

Paul ,looks like you're getting great feedback! I am currently planning my 1st layout and was up in the air as to what track, switches etc to use and of course a track plan! This thread ( which I  thank you for), has pretty much convinced me to seriously consider Ross track and switches. I have modern diesels and Imperial steam all MTH! Absolutely love your track plan! Exactly what I want! Your idea or can you tell where to go to find it? Thanks, love this forum!!!

My layout was started in 1987. I have used Gargraves phantom rail track and  Ross Custom switches since the beginning. They are powered by Tortoise switch machines. They have worked flawlessly for 29 years. If I break a throw bar or have some other problem because of my own carelessness, I return the switch to Steve at Ross Switches and it is repaired without cost. They even pay the return shipping. For me there is no other system that I would consider. The Atlas track looks fine, but their switch machines are huge and  gross looking. With the Tortoise switch machines there is nothing visible except a fine wire from beneath the table passing through a small hole in the tabletop to engage the throw bar.  The Ross switches are a "work of art." You will be proud to have them on your layout. There are few "no brainer" decisions in this hobby, but this is one of them. 

play trains posted:

Paul ,looks like you're getting great feedback! I am currently planning my 1st layout and was up in the air as to what track, switches etc to use and of course a track plan! This thread ( which I  thank you for), has pretty much convinced me to seriously consider Ross track and switches. I have modern diesels and Imperial steam all MTH! Absolutely love your track plan! Exactly what I want! Your idea or can you tell where to go to find it? Thanks, love this forum!!!

You are correct, the feedback has been great and I have decided to go with the Ross switches...six (6) using the manual throws to begin with and then possibly an additional 4 remote units for the the unreachable locations. Actually I have sent a couple of extra emails to Steve with questions and haven't had a reply. Also tried calling on Thursday and Friday, but keep getting a recording...finally left a message, so hopefully I'll hear back from him on Monday so that I can place my order?

The final drawing, different from the one shown above, includes all of the track, switches, operating accessories, roads and buildings...and I have reposted it here:

It does allow for future expansion...hadn't really given it much thought, but when my daughter and family were here visiting me at Christmas...she said "Dad...you have all of this space, why didn't you make it bigger?" Hmmm...and so I may...

An additional tip: Very few dealers discount Ross switches but a neighbor of mine does. His name is Bill Hirsch and his company is Head End Equipment and his phone number is 847-432-9081.

In my opinion this is a very wise decision. With ross you can't beat the quality, the performance and the support.

Before re-designing my layout last year I had started to lay Atlas track with Ross switches.  I found the gap between the last Ross tie and the end of its rail didn't allow for the joiner to fully fit between the Atlas track and the Ross switch.  I had to 'cut' a small slit between the Ross tie and track so the joiner would allow both Atlas and Ross pieces to fit properly.   Otherwise, there was a larger gap than desired between the two.  Anyone else experience this problem ?

Mike 

Yes, Mike, I too found that to be the case. Takes but a moment though with a box cutter blade.

Hi Paul, if you keep in mind that the Ross switch machine, the same used by Gargrave and others throws due to a return, or system ground from the push button unit.

This return signal electrical potential is the same as the outside rail of your track. That is why if you use a separate transformer to drive your track switches make sure it is at the same electrical potential as your track.

The isolated track section mentioned above is simply a short section of track, usually on the inside of the switches turn approach  that is not electrically connected to the return loop due to a insolated pin at each end of said section. Return is provided through the wheels of your engine, or car when it passes through this section and this return potential is passed onto the input of you switch motor via a 22 gauge wire placed in the same terminal as the command signal wire from your control button for that associated direction of travel.

What ever side of the switch motor you place it (  the wire) on will decide what direction the switch will throw.

IT is very important to remember that of the three motor screw terminals the center one is the + side, or the potential of the center rail of the track. Again that is why a separate switch motor power source needs to be phased with the track power as I stated above.

16 VAC is best to use for these motors, not the  18 VAC recommended for DCS, or TMCC, that is one of the best reasons for a separate Switch motor power source. Again, not to beat a dead horse please see my phasing warning above.

( At your transformers tie the return post or the outside track source together from one transformer to the other).

Have Fun.

Setting up the non-derailing section prior to the turnout; try to make sure the cuts in the common rail so that it leaves one of the outside rails "continuous" ...  your control system will thank you.

I too am looking for some help concerning Ross switches.  How do you connect Ross to Lionel O gauge post war tubular track.  Any help would be appreciated.

The still newbie, Bill

I believe you can buy pins made to go into Menards track and Ross track.

Check out the Ross Plate line. They feature the same profile rail as the tubular Lionel track and will be the correct height. You can still use their regular line of switches. You will need transition pins to connect the rails and some shimming will be needed to get the correct height.

@Allan Miller posted:

You can go wrong with Ross switches and you can't go wrong with Steve...a long-standing and  true supporter of the hobby.

Allan!...

Did you intend to add a 't to the second word of your comment???

IMHO, it would make more sense!

KD

BTW...I could then agree with you...100%

Thank you both for your assistance.  Allows me to breath easier about comingling the brands.  I purchased some Ross switches because on my track plan (made with AnyRail) the Ross allowed me to do more because of the variety of switches.

Take care, Bill

@UKE KAT posted:

Have you operated them manually with the throw lever accessory and without the anti-derailment feature...if yes, did it add interest, make operating your trains more enjoyable and did you stay disaster free???

Please respond if you have had any personal experience with the above...

Paul...

I strongly recommend going manual op...

• if you want to be more interactive with the operation.
• if you don't want to spend hours contorting yourself (painfully, as testified by this near-octogenarian!) beneath a table running scale miles of wire for remote control.
• if you can think of better ways to spend the difference in $$$ betwixt manual and motor/control.
• if you have kids...grand-, not-so-grand-, neighborhood-, young-at-heart-but-not-of-body, etc.... who would love to be participants in the operation.
• if your switches are within easy, comfortable reach from the aisle, and not surrounded by tall scenery, structures, details that are snag-worthy from clothing or clumsiness.
• if you can't imagine that somebody in a distant place on the prototype of your railroad would be sitting in a comfy chair, beer in hand, before a magnificent whole-railroad control panel, or holding a gizmo/cell-phone in their hand to throw the switch to a siding to drop off/pick up a car.
• If you want to have more fun...IMHO, of course.
• etc., etc., blah, blah

...then, by all means, so go.

But, no, I guarantee that, remote or manual, NEITHER will be disaster-free.  It's the nature of the hobby...and the humanity-in-control.  (And, as an avid hobbyist, we are not alone in that regard!...just spend some time talking with folks in the R/C department...planes, helicopters, cars, boats, etc., etc.  FI, you can move an R/C lever about the same amount as the lever on a Caboose Industries 208 throw and have gravity ruin your day...saith the fly-guys!)

But I digress...   Ross (and Gargraves) products and the folks that provide them?...The absolute best in the biz.

IMHO, of course.

KD