Trying to run conventional - something is wrong

I run primarily DCS - I rarely run my conventional engines but decided to get one out tonight to run.  It has been a while.  I will try to best describe the problem I am having.

1. Running DCs engine - all is fine

2.  All DCS engines are on sidings with now power

3.  turn on convention engine with passenger train. 20 volts on the Z-4000  all light up nicely

4.  Use throttle on z-4000 train moves nicely forward and backward everything seems fine.

5.  go to remote hit TR and start controlling train with remote....lights dim and Z-4000 is buzzing some like it does when there is a short....hard to control train speed. have to go to 14 volts some places back it back down at others.  just doesn't seem to run right....

6.  Park train on isolated siding and try to go back to DCS get error message DCS engine not on track.  

7.  Shut down all power and reboot - everything comes back like is supposed to ..now have power to DCS engines.

SO i guess one question is after a conventional session do you need to reboot to go back to DCS and secondly, why is running with the throttle so much better then when go to remote - seems to be shorting.

Does it have anything to do with train crossing  from one TIU input to the other...I have made some changes since last time ran conventionally, wondering if i inadvertently screwed something up?

Original Post

It sounds as if you have a problem with the conventional train or the track upon which it sits..

Remove the conventional train from the track and then attempt the same commands from the TR screen. Move back to the ENG screen and see if the DCS engine is OK.

If it is OK, there's a problem, most likely a short circuit, with the conventional train.

If it's not OK, there's a problem, most likely a phasing or other power problem, with the track connected to the variable channel.

Barry

 

DCS Ambassador & author of The DCS Companion series of books

Train-Ca-Teers - All For O and O For All!

 

Okay - I think I did kinda did what you said...

1.  started off DCS everything works fine....two channels both working dCS

2.  took engines off passenger train sat on each track representing each channel....lights bright in pass cars....Hit TR everything fine.....soon as I turn up volts with remote....lights go out on passenger cars...switch to other variable channel....start increasing voltage  lights out on passenger cars..... go back to eng......try to power up DCS  doesn't recognize engine...shut everything down re boot....everything works fine again.  

Something is shorting but only when I increase volts on TR....DCS works fine no short.

When operating DCS each channel operates the track is supposed to no crossover

I don't even know where to look for a short - again only when I hit TR and increase the volts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please do as I said:

"Remove the conventional train from the track and then attempt the same commands from the TR screen. Move back to the ENG screen and see if the DCS engine is OK."

That includes the passenger cars. Then, repeat the tests.

Barry

 

DCS Ambassador & author of The DCS Companion series of books

Train-Ca-Teers - All For O and O For All!

 

Yes same result..........everything goes off tracks or is on toggled off siding.  TR increase voltage on both variable channels go back to eng....put engine physically back on track or toggle on siding...either way  - no docs signal   reboot....everything is fine again.

 

I would agree. You have an electrical problem with the wiring. Did it work correctly BEFORE you made changes? If YES then you definitely changed something and you will have to either disconnect one wire set at a time and try or remove them all and add on set back a a time. First thing I would do is make sure the other loop (or whatever the 2nd handle works) is isolated from the first loop (or Handle).  Then backwards work taking each power connection off line till you fine the problem. The Z4000 should not hum or buzz when using the remote.

What are the circumstances that would cause a short when operating only conventional not DCS? - that might help me pinpoint.  I work on the layout in spurts....back on it now as i have time ....but this was months ago when i made changes....no way for me to retrack those steps...but yes it worked before.....

essentially what I did was take what was a double mainline....and make it single for about 12 feet then back to double on either end.  The two main lines were on separate channels - so now the single is obviously on one...but it is isolated on either end when it spits again...at first I thought I might have had a crossover of channels on the same section of track but that does not appear to be the case...

 

 

What are the circumstances that would cause a short when operating only conventional not DCS?

It's not about running in DCS or in conventional modes.

There's a short-circuit or some other electrical issue in the tracks. When you put power into the tracks, the problem becomes apparent and bad things happen.

Barry

 

DCS Ambassador & author of The DCS Companion series of books

Train-Ca-Teers - All For O and O For All!

 

Okay I did what Joe suggested with a test track - interesting it does the same thing.... so this what i did

But first let me ask am I handling the TR button correctly......when wanting to run conventional turn up throttle to 18/19 push TR and control volts thus controlling speed of engine....want to be sure I am following correct steps to run conventional.  If so then the following is steps I took on my test track

 

1  Test track of 6 feet totally unrelated to the rest of the layout.....track with insulated pins between the two sections.  one throttle controlling each section...channel 1 to track 1 channel 2 to track 2.....fire up DCS engine track 1 works fine....fire up DCS engine track 2 works fine.  

2.  Remove DCS engine - put passenger car to test for power...power on track 1  power on track 2 lights burning bright......soon as I push TR and start increasing volts everything shorts - lights out....repeat process track 2 same result also did this with conventional engine however the engine would run a little but hard to tell on 6 feet of track

3.  remove passenger car...replace with DCS engine.....get error message engine not found.   move to track 2 ....same process same result...

4.  Power everything down....Power everything up....

5  Fire up DCS engine track 1 works fine....move to track 2 fire up DCS works Fine.

So again....pushing TR on the remote seems to short everything....throttle running conventional does not short....all problems begin when TR button is pressed.

 

What gives...I have no idea....it seems as if the remote is shorting it out....that does not seem to make any sense though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would try using only one section, one channel and one side of the transformer at a time to eliminate any possibility of the two sides of the transformer making contact from the connected tracks.

The remote cannot cause the short, but the TIU may be causing the problem when using the TR.

You didn't say if you are using the Variable channel in Fixed so power passes through or scrolling up the voltage when running command. I assumed you were using Fixed.

separated the two....i handle to 1 3 foot section of track....that is all....same results....moved to unconnected second piece of track same result...after hitting TR is shorts and have to reboot to get signal again.

must be the TIU - but why only when I hit TR....everything else works fine.

when running command using fixed - i think is the answer to your question.

 

I believe the TIU has a short when using the Variable mode, but works fine in Fixed.

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Okay MTH checked out my TIU.   Everything okay.   Apparently operator error.     Can some some one give me step by step how to run conventional trains stArting with wire from the z4000 to ......

i already have creted the TIU tracks 

 

thanks in advance 

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Alan Mancus
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