v5 of My Layout Plans, Still Not Happy - Now on v27 and still going

U CAN DO ALOT OF RAILROADING IN 19X13, MY ROOM SIZE IS THE SAME, ILL SEND YOU A SCHEMATIC. ATLAS 054 IS A GOOD RADII, RUN MOST ANYTHING TRADITIONAL AND IT LOOKS GOOD. INCORPORATE WIDER RADIUS WHEN POSSIBLE. MULTIPLE LEVELS, BRIDGES ,ROCK CUTS ARE A REAL PLUS. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX! A WALK- IN STYLE GIVES BEST ACCESS TO SCENERY AND TRACK MAINTANANCEITS A GOOD COMBINATION OF AROUND THE WALLS AND TABLE TOP, FREE FORM AND NATURAL LOOKING , MAKES FOR INTERESTING SCENERY AND TRACKWORK

I'd like to see that, thanks.

Yes, I know I can get a bit crazy with yards, but I really like the looks of a full yard and would rather keep things on the layout instead of swapping things in and out.  It is 4" centerline spacing so not too cramped, but it is busy looking, and that is bugging me.  I did also think about problems against the wall like you said.  Sometimes I wish I only had 6x8.  I don't know how those with larger rooms that are the size of my house do it.  But then with more room and having wider curves they may not have to worry about trying to fit in everything they want and instead are trying to find things to fill the room.

I did like the feel of my 2nd FasTrack layout, so I might try to recreate it in Atlas,  but it lacked a way to turn things around.  Should I try getting a wye in the layout?

IVE GOT A " DESIGN " FOR U TO LOOK AT, BUT IM HAVING A HECK OF A TIME UPLOADING IT. PLEASE BE PATIENT, THANKS, CLIFFORD

Sinclair I think it's pretty good the way it is, a couple of suggestions:

1.  Make the yard lead longer.  Move the bottom switch where it joins the outer mainline to the right.  The yard lead should be long enough to "double" the contents of one yard track to another.

2.  What's the pink region again?  If those bricks are just on the floor, why not extend the ovals another foot or two to the right?  You'll get a longer run and it still leaves plenty of width to enter the room.  Just make your platform legs shorter to account for the added height of the stove platform.

I think you have a nice train room and a good plan.  I saved a copy because I have the same operating preferences and might build something like it in the near future.

You are right about the pink area, and I did think about extending over it, but I need a place to put the Christmas tree so I can get more trains every Christmas!

Well, I thought I tried before and failed, but this time I was able to recreate my FasTrack plan with Atlas track.  Then I messed with it and was able to fit O72 curves on the outside.  Now I can run the VL BB if I'm lucky enough to get one.

This is what it looks like.  Sorry I forgot the labels this time.  The pink this time is isle ways in the layout.  The tan is where buildings and track side scenery goes.  The bottom one for the passenger station and the upper one for the gain silo.  On the bottom wall at each end are warehouses.  The yard is on the left side and angled up in the center left is the oil refinery.  The blue areas are just for reference to me to make sure I left walk ways.  The pink next to the desk is for being able to open the desk.  Now my Christmas tree can go in the upper right.  I'll end up with two liftouts, but by the way I designed it, I can still get to all the industries and the yard with them out, making it a switching layout.  I'm still thinking I might want to put a siding on the top to store the BB so I don't have to take it off of the layout when I want to run something else at the head of my long freight haul.  And I don't have a way to turn things around, but this has been my favorite plan so far.

Sinclair,

Two or three operational concerns:

1. Bad "S" curve at lower left of your picture where train coming off outside curve tries to enter warehouse siding.  Similar bad "S" curve in same corner where inside curve enters train station siding.

2. Train parked at station siding kills your yard lead.

3. Lack of some way to turn engines results in use of "hands of God" (meaning you, of course).  This may get old very fast when talking about VL BB.

Chuck

1. Bad "S" curve at lower left of your picture where train coming off outside curve tries to enter warehouse siding.  Similar bad "S" curve in same corner where inside curve enters train station siding.

I hadn't thought about the S-curves.  Not really sure how to get rid of them.  For the warehouse side, it'll only be 3-4 car trains at most going through it.  They are O54 switches so the BB will not be using them.  On the passenger station side I could make it a #5 switch.  But the S curve is the same on both sides of the passenger station siding, all O54 curves and switches.

2. Train parked at station siding kills your yard lead.

This I do know.  Provides some operational logistics.  I have to be done switching before the passenger train rolls in.  And with the passenger train off of the inside main I can now use the inside main to run to the industries on the peninsula.  Also my passenger train is long enough that the locomotive will almost enter the yard to pull far enough up to clear the main.  It will stop on the last O54 curve just before the 1st switch.

3. Lack of some way to turn engines results in use of "hands of God" (meaning you, of course).  This may get old very fast when talking about VL BB.

Like I said in my post, there is no way to turn things around, except for HOG.  The outer main is O72 and the inner O63, so there really is no way to get the BB to the middle to turn it around.  A O72 Wye takes lots of room.  I did manage to get one in v5, but the layout just didn't feel right.  I like v6_2 so far even without being able to turn around.  Trains on the inside loop will be going clockwise and the outer loop counter clockwise.  But last night I thought about making a removable span from the tip of the peninsula into the yard such that I could turn most of my engines around with.  I just drop the span in when I want to turn them, and otherwise leave it out so I don't have to duck under to enter the layout.

Updated the design a bit.  Now I have a rather large wye  for smaller equipment and a long spur to park trains.  The green track is where it will lift out somehow.

Can this design be adjusted to ease access and eliminate ducking-under?

Being the room has two doorways, one is the only door to the backyard, there will be no duck unders.  The one on the right will either be on top of a half door (Great way to keep the little kids out of the room too.) or a motorized lift bridge that will go straight up and down.  The one up top will either have to be a pull out or a draw bridge style.  The curve for the wye will be a pull out that is only placed when I want to turn something around without using the HOG.

yo sinclair... have you thought about a point to point railroad? or a single mainline with a passing siding and allowing possibly for a turntable or a wye you could use to turn that BB.

$oo

P-T-P no.  I'm mostly a runner so a P-T-P would not be something I enjoy, especially with a BB.  And with that in mind I picked a dual main so I could run two trains at once without having to keep them from hitting each other with passing sidings.  v5 at the top had a O72 wye, but in the end I didn't like the feel of the layout, and TTs take up so much room, and cost, of a locomotive of that size.  I'd love to have both someday, but for now I think I'll skip them on this my 1st layout of decent size.  I'm in my mid 30s, so I still have time to go big down the road (I hope.).

IM POSTING MY LAYOUT DESIGN FOR U TONIGHT, WHEN U SEE IT ,NEW IDEAS WILL COME TO LIGHT. WALK-IN, NO DUCK-UNDER, EASY TO REACH SCENERY ETC..

I THINK I HAVE FAILED, I WILL TRY AGAIN!

LAYOUT SIZE 18" X 13". YOU CAN MODIFY THE PLAN, BUT IT MAKES FOR INTERESTING SCENERY AND OPERATION. ENJOY

That's a lot of action in the given space! 

Is that a mirror on one side of the layout?  And do you have a plan for it, or is that what you posted was your plan?  You really gave me something to think about.  I would of never thought of doing it like you had laid out.  How many trains can you run at once without interaction from you?  It's a very nice layout you have.

Is the current plan on a flat surface? I can't think of not incorporating grades and multiple levels in the space you have. A maximum of 2% for the grades allows trains to run well and creates great scenery possibilities. Try to get away from the loops of track. Running trains around loops no matter how large they are can get really boring. I use Gargraves track, Ross Custom switches and Tortoise switch machine. Don't just think width and length, also think height and various levels. Much more fun.

Yes, it is flat.  A 2% grade would require 30+ feet to get up 8 inches, which is bigger than my room.  As for loops of track, that's what I like, which is why I have them.  I have a loop of O48 FasTrack on the floor now and will sit there and watch it go round and round.  My wife asks me how I can't be bored yet.  I want a more toy style layout, but without all the crammed tracks and accessories.  So somewhere between toy and hi-rail.

As for Clifford's style layout, I can't figure out how to make it a min O54 layout.  If O54 is the max, then I can.  But with that VL BB in my sights, I want to run it, and this is what I got with one O72 loop.

So I don't know, seems like it'll start getting busy like v5.  So I'll keep messing around until I figure out what it is I can build since I still have to finish the room 1st (Paint the walls and tile the floor.).  I just want to have a plan so that I can start work once the room is finished, and hopefully not spend more than I have too to get it done.

I really love the old look on your layout !!!!!! 

Clifford.....really like your plan.  Do you have a track plan that you show us?

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT. I WILL POST MORE PICTURES NOW THAT I KNOW HOW! THE LAYOUT HAS MULTIPLE LEVELS, YOU CAN INTERCHANGE TRAINS TO ANY LOOP VIA A 3.5 % GRADE( WHICH IS TOO STEEP FOR A TRAIN OF SIGNIFICANT LENGTH)  AND REVERSE  LOOP ON THE ENGINE HOUSE LEVEL. CRUISE CONTROL AND TEN CARS IS ABOUT MAX ON A GRADE LIKE THIS. THESE PHOTOS REFLECT MODS. TO THE PLAN, ELIMINATING GRADES, AND HAVING 6 INDEPENDENT LOOPS. I ENJOY RUNNING MULTIPLE TRAINS!

Clifford.....now I see it.  Thanks!!

ALSO, IF YOU WANT GRADES OF 2-3%, TRY LOWERING THE HIEGHT BETWEEN  TRACKS. WITH A LITTLE THOUGHT YOU CAN HAVE AS LITTLE AS 5 1/4 " FROM TOP OF RAIL TO UNDERPASS IF YOU DONT RUN SCALE DOUBLESTACKS. 8 " IS TOTALLY UN-NEEDED. WITH 072 CURVES THE GRADES CAN CONTINUE ANYWHERE ON THE TRACK PLAN! ALSO TIGHT CLEARANCES ON BRIDGES AND TUNNELS LOOK BETTER, AND ARE MORE PROTOTYPICAL. SOMETIMES LESS THAN A FOOT,(THATS 1/4" FOR O SCALE) . YOU MUST THOROUGHLY TEST YOUR TALLEST EQUIPMENT BEFORE FINAL SCENERY IS IN PLACE. ONE STEP AT A TIME!

SINCLAIR, DONT BE TOO SYMETRICAL, SOMETIMES LAYOUT SOFTWARE JUST DOESNT WORK. IF YOU MUST HAVE AN 072 LOOPTAKE A LOOK AT MY PLAN, START AT THE LEFTHAND LOWER CORNER DRAW A LINE AT 45* COMING UP AND TO THE RIGHT, YOU WILL HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM TO COMPLETE TWO 072 LOOPS THAT FOLD BACK INTO THE CORNER TO MAKE A BEE LINE TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LAYOUT. WHEN YOU COME TO THE EXTREME RIGHT HAND SIDE,TURN LEFT AND MAKE ANOTHER 072 LOOP BACK TO THE LEFT HAND CORNER TO MEET YOUR ORIGINAL CURVE. THIS IS A FOLDED DOGBONE. THIS WILL START LAYER #1. A FOUNDATION FOR EVERYTHING TO FOLLOW! INTERTWINE THE LOOPS AND STRAIGHTS TO MAKE INTERSETING TRACKWORK AND LANDSCAPING. REMEMBER ,THINK IN 3D, RT., LT. , UP AND DOWN. ANOTHER TIP, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE ALWAYS PLACE EVEN A SMALL STRAIGHT SECTION BETWEEN CURVES THAT TRAVEL IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. IT LOOKS MORE NATURAL THAN SNAKING BACK AND FORTH

Clifford-  Thanks for the tips.  I don't try to be symmetrical, but it does keep turning out that way.  Maybe I just need to step away from planning for a bit.  I've had the house since May, and won't be able to start on getting the room ready until this summer with the layout starting next year, so I have time.  I'm just being too impatient I think in wanting a completed plan now.  Guess that's the engineer in me.  I don't even have the BB yet, so I won't even know what clearances it needs for sure.  My son asked me for his own layout last night instead of having the one I made about 6 years ago that fits under his bed.  Maybe it'll be a good place to start, help him design his own and build it then start planning mine again.  We'll see.

sinclair, as to the VL BB have you thought about a ceiling layout of 072 and run it there or maybe 2 feet lower from ceiling so you can view it easier?

as to a grade you have seen my layout and that depot spur line is 19' long and has to climb 7" to connect with mainline none of my mth or lionel with cruise control have any issues pulling 5 car passenger units up that grade so don't be so quick to assume you need 30' run to achieve your goal.

you only have one way to change trains from inner to outer track either create another set of crossover switches from outer to inner or if possible insert a double crossover where current switches reside variety spices things up and you just might get the wife hooked as well which means more trains!! how do you think I was able to get all those steam engines hmmm! 

best advice is keep working on a plan that you like. meantime make some very crude tables and test ideas with having a multi level layout sometimes big surprises come from innocent tinkering.

as to the small yard area at upper left close to door try tinkering with a yard area below the main level you can use the footage where yards stop to slowly climb up to mainline level. and yes you say not a switching person but trust me you will need someplace for all the rolling stock to reside as more fun to make up a train with cars on the track verses the old pull off and replace gets old very fast. also you can use yards to store trains while running others give it some thought at least.

$oo

$oo Line, which version of the layout are you referring to with your comments, I have 3 here. Hover your mouse over the image and a tool tip should pop up with the layout version.  I'm still heavily leaning to v6_3.  A under the table yard has crossed my mind more than once, and that top long siding may turn into the yard lead and ramp.  I know I can fit a 4-6% grade no problem, and personally have no issues with such a grade as all my locomotives can pull a train up the Lionel FasTrack over/under set.  As for the wife, she supports me, but they are too big for her.  She want to have her own N scale layout.  They are "cuter" to her.

sinclair.... version v7 is what I was referring to for the double crossover it would allow trains to change from inner to outer and back again.

v6_3 is nice but why the desk at top right area? also if you go the yard under layout I would lose the yard you have at upper left and make a few more industries I know you like to run but industries give a purpose for the road engines to run for countless miles.

also as you start adding the years on you will find switching cars around will be a rewarding break and open up possibilities also I think your son will be more inclined to join you as I noticed his attention span after train went around a few times got boring so switching cars just might be his calling and if that works you will have a bond no amount of money can buy.

now you say your wife likes N scale good if you would create a mountain area and then use the N scale as a forced perspective both spouses will have something in common in the train room,

I believe you have 2 areas with doors to deal with you could create a bridge that you can lift out and are easy to make. 

is your room 19' long and 13' wide or just the reverse of that? 

I myself haven't done a thing scenery wise since your last visit you think when you retire you will have all the time to do anything huh were more busy now than when we worked and wonder how we did all and worked as well LOL.

have fun planning and dreaming is that VL BB in your dreams now!!  you do realize TMCC will not allow you to use all the cool features it will have and so golly gee whiz guess I need cab-2 command setup!! and the beat goes on and on.

$oo

The desk is for the family computer, and that's the only room in the house it can go in.  I put the piano in the living room.  maybe I should of switched them, as trains could go on top of the piano, but the thing weighs a ton and now that it's in place, it's not moving again.

So I've keep messing with Clifford's basic plan and now I came up with v12.  Yes, there have been several that never made it very far.  I watched the latest video update of Eric's layout of Eric's Trains and it kinda inspired this.  Not sure how the turn table snuck in, but it's there.

The 3D is to kinda help make the mud clearer, it's looking from the top of the cat tree which is the light green square next to the desk in the plan.  But the bottom is a folded dogbone of two return loops of O72 for the VL BB.  Off of the left side is a 4 spur yard all O72 track so that I can park the BB off of the main.  There is also a siding for the silo.  Level 1 is yellow.  The grade is pink and level 2 is blue.  The top level is a folded loop with a siding and one long reversing loop.  There is another yard on top of the other yard, so I make and break trains on two levels, although I fowl the main on the lower level.  I do like it, and I don't at the same time.  It gets rid of the duck unders, but also requires me to make a more realistic layout or else it'll look funny to me.  It also limits the length of trains I can run to being no more than 20 freight cars long.

You did say something about around the ceiling, and I do have something like that in mind too, maybe even going through the whole house, so maybe that will be the stomping grounds of the BB.  There'll be no limit to train length then.  Well there will be, but it'll be much longer.

NOW YOURE THINKING IN 3D! LET THE FUN BEGIN! LOOKS GREAT!

I really like the 3D drawing...wish I would have had that capability long ago.  It's easier to understand and envision.