Was lead paint used on postwar Lionel trains?

Uh, you know the kids would like have to suck the paint off the metal to get any lead in them right? Lead is perfectly safe in paint as long as it stays that way. Sand it, wear a mask and clean up very well. Tell the kids to keep the stock outta their mouths... LOL

 

Ted

According to an article I just read on Wikipedia about Lionel, it only states that they used enamel paint, with no mention of lead content.  JLC opted for paint compared to lithography, as was used in early Ives etal.  The painted products of Posrwar are very unlikely to chip off in large pieces, as they appear to have been baked on finishes.

 

i  think you wouldn't have any fears at all with your trains.  I actually think there is too much "hype" about the fears of lead.  I worked as a telephone cable splicer, with 40 years experience as a trouble shooter, and dealt with lead jacketed cable during my whole career, lead solder, lead dust, and I am not suffering health wise after 40 years exposure. Take it for what it's worth, and decide for yourself.  

TeleDoc, I am glad to hear that you have no health issues from lead solder exposure.

I only have 39 years of working in the circuit board assembly industry in design and board repairs.  I also designed and manufactured circuit boards for train accessories in my garage back in the 80s and 90s.  They were all assembled with sn/pb solder.   So far I have no issues either.

First of all, "Welcome to the OGR Forum!". The chances of lead paint being used on postwar trains? Honestly, slim to none.

Lead paint? Why, are you going to eat your trains?

Honestly you have nothing to fear...

 

I have a few animal figures that are lead and painted... keep them clear of the kids, but I honestly don't envision me sticking them in my mouth.

 

and kissing your trains good night is perfectly safe....

Thanks for the replies, and I'm glad I could provide a little entertainment in my first post here.  I don't think this was a silly question to ask, though.  My youngest (and the one who loves trains the most) is still sucking his thumb, so even though he won't be chewing on trains anything that sticks to his hands can find its way into his mouth.  And we know that kids are very sensitive to lead, much more than adults, so the fact that some of us have worked around lead as adults doesn't mean there's no concern about kids.  But I do agree with your conclusion that this is probably not a problem.

I would not let a baby gnaw on a State set, but if a child is past teething and chewing

on and tasting everything, which I would think they would be if interested in trains,

I would not worry about anything but the trains' collectibility and value in small

hands.

No concern about the collectibility; based on the condition it's already in it would be tough for my kids to affect the value.

 

Thanks to your post I now know what a state set is.

Don't chew on the circuit boards either, they have tin/lead solder.

 

don't forget old transformers....asbestos.....

These are the eatable ones :

 

 

Leaving aside the issue of product safety, I wonder if possible use of lead paint in pre and postwar Lionel trains may have contributed to the beautiful look or sheen of many of the colors.  My understanding is that real railroads eventually were required to change their paints to eliminate lead and that affected the colors used.

Gordon,

 

It is also is my understanding the the addition of lead into paint results in more vibrant colors. While I have no concrete evidence to cite, I believe it was used by Lionel to achieve the good color and hardness of the finish.  And keep in mind, lead was quite common not only in paint but many other products in those days.

 

But as others have said, the only real chance of lead exposure, barring a child chewing on the trains for a long time, might be if they happened to be in a room where someone, for whatever reason, is sanding the paint off without adequate safeguards.

 

I would have more concern about a pre or post transformer.  Just to be safe I would buy a new one.  Some ones can still work fine if serviced by an experienced technician.

 

Ed

 

Of course, as you recall, lead paint was a problem for wooden Thomas trains in 2007:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06...s/15recall.html?_r=0

 

Kids do chew on things, but eating prewar and postwar Lionel should be frowned upon.  It gives "toy train consumer" a whole new meaning.

advice-dont worry about,i havent heard of anyone dying of postwar lionel paint.-Jim

What most of us run now is MPC-present equipment. It just runs better than the PW stuff.  The older stuff is mainly for display and box storage. While old trains most certainly contain lead paint you would have to ingest or breathe the dust for it to cause harm. As for lead solder; what do you think the Chinese are still using?

We still use leaded solder in our process (industrial controls.)  Lead-free solder presents it's own set of problems.

 

Rusty

Lead-free solder brings quite a bit of baggage with it, I still use 63/37 solder for my work. 

There, or not, thousands of us would be having health issue if past trains had lead paint that was harmful. I don't think it's an issue here. Keep your trains away from the little ones, they are not chew toys.

Jim

Besides, the heath threat of the day is bacon, ham and hot dogs...

 

Rusty

 

Is this actually a problem or are you just pulling my leg?  I was planning on having my RW serviced (probably by lioneltransformer.com).  Not that I would have plugged it in anyway, but the cord literally broke off in my hand, and i wouldn't just replace the cord myself because I don't know what internal parts might also be in bad shape.

At one time, Lionel used asbestos insulation around a section of resistance wire in many transformers with built-in whistle controllers. So long as you aren't opening and closing the transformer's case, and disturbing the wiring, I don't think its a big deal. Once the transformer has been serviced, there is no reason to open the case.

 

It's really a matter of personal preference, I don't care to use any transformers that have metal cases. Your RW is one of them. I guess the closest plastic cased transformer is the LW.

I do not have an LW transformer in front of me. It probably has the same section of asbestos covered resistance wire in it's whistle control circuit.

Imagine getting Marx tilt couplers past todays safetycrats.

 

Bogie

If anybody is curious, I sent Lionel an email and their response is was:

"To the best of our knowledge, Lionel Trains produced in the Post War Era did not contain lead paint."

Look at it this way, most of us here grew up with these trains and toys with lead and various other chemicals in it. I've have still not seen the babbling, drooling, mumbling, stumbling hordes of boomers that should by now be quite pickled by the stuff. Oh and before someone else chimes in, smoke fluid isn't really smoke but a fog and it doesn't represent the same hazards as real smoke, might aggravate folks with asthma and some don't care for the smell and yes if it's heavy enough it will set off your smoke detector but it's relatively benign.

 

Jerry

quote" 

If anybody is curious, I sent Lionel an email and their response is was:

"To the best of our knowledge, Lionel Trains produced in the Post War Era did not contain lead paint."

 

 

Gee I hope some big shot attorney does not see this ! ...Might see a TV commercial saying if any one ever played with Lionel trains since the 1900's and died from cancer  have a family member  call for a class actin law suit ... sure to put LIONEL out of business...

bajinnova, in today's information age and media circus, I think it is a reasonable concern and a legit question to ask.

 

Personally I would not let children handle trains that are sucking thumbs or tasting things.

 

Most senior citizens have lived with an abundance of lead, mercury, asbestos, antimony, cadmium and other problem substances in our lives for years.  I can remember using bare fingers to coat dimes and quarters with the mercury out of a thermometer whenever one broke.

 

Now that we know the problem areas, it makes sense to ask questions and act accordingly. 

I do wash my hands more often now when soldering or working with our chemicals.

 

 

Thank you!  It's a very well documented/proven fact that even small amounts of lead in kids has an impact, there is a reduction of IQ long before there are symptoms that we would ever identify as lead poisoning.  So what that means is that we old-timers and medium-timers are all a little dumber than we would have been without leaded gas, etc.  I want my kids to have the best life they can, not just to avoid the obvious neurological symptoms (or death) associated with severe lead poisoning.  If you guys think that's silly, that's your business but I disagree.

 

But in any case I'm excited about getting the old trains working again.  I have already learned a lot from reading this forum and I'm sure I'll learn a lot more from everybody here.

Another WORRY looking for a place to LIVE.GO PLAY with your TRAINS.Nick

Having worked closely and handling massive amounts of lead in various forms for 30 some years,I know a bit about heavy metals and their removal from the environment.

 

First,I was tested monthly and never had an elevated level. The problem came from those who handled it and smoked without washing their hands. Children are culprits because they put things in their mouths and mostly dont wash their hands. Good parenting and supervision normally eliminates the problem. Chipped lead paint in old houses had a sweet taste to it and some infants were attracted to it. Most of this is gone by now and most likely it is less of a problem. In the 70s the government did the right thing addressing the problem and removing it from gasoline.

 

You dont have to "WORRY", Alfred E Newman never did. But, like handling anything potentially hazardous reasonable precautions should be taken. The Asbestos thing was a bit overblown. Removal often caused more problems than leaving it alone. Encapsulation is sometimes the best remedy but the threat of lawsuits has lead to a lot of unnecessary expense and hassle.

 

Mercury is a more serious problem in concentration and especially for developing children. Even small amounts in the human body are not so good and it is harder to get rid of. Relatively small amounts could contaminate a water resource and make it unusable. 

 

Lead used to be much more of an issue before it was addressed by regulators and it was right to take the issue seriously. I was watching a movie with my wife and googled a B actress in it who I saw in many roles. Here is some interesting reading.

 

LINK

 

Dale H

 

 

 

 

Dennis,

    Lots of us Tin Plate guys still around, we run the Lionel originals and the MTH Repro both, every year.

PCRR/Dave

This is a rather entertaining thread. The comment about the attorney commercial was the best...
Perhaps keeping you child on a leash is the safest option. Postwar Lionel trains were not meant for children to play with.

FYI, the military uses only lead solder for circuits.  The lead free solders don't work very well.  They are not reliable and have a limited life.  Don't need that in military systems or toy trains for that matter.  

 

I believe the evidence shows that a person's body can get rid of small amounts of lead.  It comes out in the hair.  

 

Mercury is a more serious matter.  Mercury has a high vapor pressure and evaporates into the air.  Breathing air with mercury in it can cause serious health problems.  The Navy will not allow mercury on any of the ships or boats.  A drop of mercury in a ship can contaminate the ship and make it unsuitable for use.

My school district has my kids tested for lead due to I work in the automotive industry.

quote:

 I was watching a movie with my wife and googled a B actress in it who I saw in many roles. Here is some interesting reading

 

Thanks for the link. It was interesting reading.

Tell that to all the kids that played with Lionel trains in the 50's...

 

Rusty

OK, great.  I'm sure glad I joined this forum.  I've learned two very important things: lead is not bad for kids but they should be kept away from toy trains?!?

I remember once in elementary school, a kid brought a glob of mercury in.  The teacher let us pass it around, put it in our desk pencil grooves, and see how it broke up and reformed.  Didn't hurt my intellj-intillahg-intelig - smarts none!

I find that lead /tin solder works better that the new stuff so I use it too. It forms a stronger bond than other solders. 

As for lead paint or solder on trains; it would be only harmful if you ingested it.  Pre-war trains all used lead paint as that was the only type available during that period. PW trains to -69 probably used it too, especially in the 40's and 50's era. As for new trains, lead free paint supposed to be used, but can anyone guarantee it? Lead paint is widely used in China and Asia.