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I just purchased remote/TIU (revision L) combination, brand new, from a hobby shop. The TIU is powered through the aux port by a 12 v, 2 amp transformer. Track power is supplied by a Postwar ZW, with throttle A powering variable 2 and throttle D powering variable 1. Both A & D have TVS diodes and a 10 amp circuit breaker on the power wires going into the TIU. Variable 1 powers one loop of track, variable 2 powers another. All layout wiring is 14 gauge. Each loop is divided into 8 blocks, each with its own power feed. Grounds are common and tied together. 

I have run two Premier steam locomotives on DCS (one on each separate loop) with no issues. I just turn variable 1 and variable 2 up to 20 volts and run the locomotives via DCS. Everything works fine. Today I tried to run a conventional train, one on each loop, and the trains acted weird. One loop had a conventional Lionel GP9 with a Pullmor motor and Railsounds 2.5 pulling 12 boxcars and a caboose. The other loop had a Williams Alco PA (motors wired in series) with ERR Alco PA Railsounds pulling 6 aluminum passenger cars.

Here's where it got weird. I started the GP9 and boxcar train on variable 1 first. I got the train rolling along at 14 volts on the DCS remote. It was running fine. I then started the train lead by the PA on the track controlled by variable 2. It too ran fine at 18 volts indicated on the DCS remote. I nudged the voltage on variable 2 up to 19 volts. All of a sudden the horns on both locomotives (on two separate TIU channels and two separate tracks) started blowing. The GP9's horn would blow continuously, the PAs horn would chirp. At the same time I noticed that the lights on both trains were varying in intensity, almost as if voltage was bouncing up and down. I turned the voltage down on variable 2 to 18.5 volts and the pulsing lights and horns stopped. Turn it back up to 19 volts and it started again. I stopped both trains and replaced the Williams PAs with a Lionel 2343 F3 and Railsounds 2.5 F3 B unit. I started both trains up. I set the train led by the GP9 on variable 1 to 14 volts and then brought the train now led by the Lionel F3 on variable 2 up to 18 volts. Everything was fine. I then scrolled to 18.5, 19, 19.5, and 20 volts on variable 2. No issues with lights pulsing or horns constantly blowing. Everything was fine.

So my question is how is the Williams PA with the ERR sound commander causing this weird behavior? Is it the series wiring of the motors? I can't figure how it would cause the horns to blow on two separate TIU channels above 18.5 volts on the DCS remote. Is having the two commons tied together causing some weird feedback? 

Edit: As a side note both locomotives/trains operate fine at the same time when controlled conventionally with the A and D handles of the ZW transformer (so no TIU in the equation).

Last edited by Lou1985
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Lou,

This is symptomatic of using a transformer that chops the sine wave, powering a variable channel that does the same thing. This is discussed in both DCS Companion books.

Are you using the ZW with the TIU or are you using something else?


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Last edited by Barry Broskowitz
Barry Broskowitz posted:

Lou,

This is symptomatic of using a transformer that chops the sine wave, powering a variable channel that does the same thing. This is discussed in both DCS Companion books.

What transformer are you using?


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TIU variable 1 is powered by handle D of a Postwar Lionel ZW, TIU variable 2 is powered by handle A of the same Postwar Lionel ZW. Both of those handles have the factory rectifier discs. Each handle has a TVS diode between the hot and common binding post as well as a 10 amp circuit breaker on the hot line leading to the TIU input. I could try powering both variable channels with handles B and C of the postwar ZW to see if that eliminates the issue.

It was just off to me that the horns would blow on two different TIU variable channels when 18.5 volts on the DCS remote was exceeded on variable 2. Perhaps one of the rectifier disc on ZW is leaking at high voltage draw?

Edit:

I've included pictures of my setup/wiring. I should note all accessories (powered by a Type Z) share the same common. 

 

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Last edited by Lou1985

I had the same issue with an engine a few years back.  I believe it was exactly what Barry describes.  The only way the TIU has to lower the voltage is to chop the waves.  The side affect is harmonics that some electronics can't deal with.  You can reduce the voltage on the ZW handle and bump the TIU channel to the max.  With the TIU channel at 22 volts, it's essentially a pass-through so the pure wave coming out of the ZW will make its way to the track.  This should solve the problem but you will have to control the engine speed with the ZW handles and not the remote.

There should be no issue connecting the common terminals together as long as you have everything phased properly.

Hope that helps.

Tony

Lou1985 posted:

I guess that makes sense. But why would turning the voltage to 20 volts on variable 2 cause the horns to blow and the lights in the locomotives to pulse on both variable 1 and variable 2? Is it because they both share a common?

No idea.  In this case the shared common is probably not the reason (they are all connected together within the ZW) but without being able to replicate it and testing, there is really no way to know for sure.

So I checked the output voltage of the ZW with A and D handles full forward. It was 19.8 volts on both channels. I turned both handles down to 17 volts. I powered up both tracks and the Lionel GP9 and Williams PA. No random horn blasts and no flickering lights. Everything ran perfectly. So those 2 volts made a difference. 

As an aside I plan on upgrading my non DCS locomotives to TMCC over time and purchasing a CAB-1L and base but for now this fix will allow me to run my conventional locomotives with no problem from the DCS remote. 

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