What is your take on the used train market?

Buyers can be very fickle and unpredictable.  Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? 

Your JLC GG-1 has no warrantee, and then there is the issue of the cost / availability of parts. What is a two year warrantee worth?

Automobiles depreciate at perhaps 10-15% per year, although it's not linear.  If trains do the same, an 8 year old locomotive might only be worth 20-30% of a new one.   Since locomotives aren't as heavily used as automobiles, figure that even 40% of what you paid 8 years ago is optimistic in the current market.  No warranty, unknown amounts of use and even accidents/abuse. Not to mention the big one: entropy.  Materials deteriorate, some faster than others.  Try selling a used or even "mint in the box" toothbrush or pair of socks to pick an extreme example or two . 

"Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? "

Apparently the market is speaking, but rather than hear the message, you seem to be becoming indignant.  Cannot imagine that makes for a pleasant Sunday.  Suggest meditation and mindfulness, acceptance of the sorrows of life, including toy train depreciation. Really.

C W Burfle posted:

... Your JLC GG-1 has no warrantee, and then there is the issue of the cost / availability of parts. What is a two year warrantee worth?

Neither do die-cast ES44's -- even if you could find a brand new one on a shelf in your LHS.   That doesn't seem to prevent folks from paying astronomical prices for them.  

Not that I need to defend my earlier post, but that's yet another example of why I stated the used market is so unpredictable about what sells quickly and what doesn't.

David

I really seem at odds with so many toy train enthusiasts.

Yes, I had Lionels as a boy, in the 1950s. Tubular track. Had some Super O when I sold everything and left toy trains.

I have zero desire to reacquire any of that stuff! Even back then I just wanted more realistic trains. I hungered after the beautiful models advertised in the magazines. Overland stuff and Walthers scale passenger cars. Of course I could afford none of it on a kid's allowance!

No conventional running, no tubular track, no postwar stuff for me.  Just doesn't interest me. Rather perplexes me that so many people love this stuff. Now we see a resurgence of tinplate . . . with sound no less???

Ah, well. Excuse me. I don't much like the Mona Lisa either. Think I'd wrap fish in it!

So you can appreciate my perplexity when I found the nostalgia guys paying as much for Lionel Budd cars from the 50s as I paid for this . . .

My experience with the used market is usually trying to buy a 3-rd Rail item, not some 1955 Lionel locomotive. It's just an entirely different mentality. Probably all old hat to most here but I am only recently returned to the toy train scene and it was really a surprise to me.

I should hve anticipated it. About ten years ago I visited some long-time friends of my late wife. They had a basement full of mostly new Lionel stuff. They wouldn't even take it out of the boxes!! "It hurts resale values!," they told me.

Landsteiner posted:

"Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? "

Apparently the market is speaking, but rather than hear the message, you seem to be becoming indignant.  Cannot imagine that makes for a pleasant Sunday.  Suggest meditation and mindfulness, acceptance of the sorrows of life, including toy train depreciation. Really.

Landsteiner, you've missed the point AGAIN!!! We're talking about the unpredictability of the used toy train market.  Good gosh, man.  You'd find fault and misinterpret somebody wishing you a Happy Birthday -- just because you don't like them.    Tough place to live.  So spare us the free psycho-babble advice.

David

"We're talking about the unpredictability of the used toy train market"

Actually, you were whimpering about how people less astute than yourself were buying the overpriced (your favorite word of the last year or so) Vision GG1 and ignoring your oh so lovely JLC GG1 which was bargain priced to your way of thinking. 

My point, reasonably apposite, is that your GG1 is perhaps not bargain priced, and that those purchasing the new GG1 may prefer the newest GG1, warranty by Lionel, and definitely not 8 years old,....a previously enjoyed GG1.  That isn't psycho-babble, it's cold hard fact.  And very much to the point of this thread.

PS--I have no opinion one way or the other about you, and I certainly don't dislike you or anyone else.  Forming opinions about people's character based upon internet discussion forums is an act of lunacy.  That said, I think you are distinctly wrong about Lionel's pricing strategies and what they mean.  It is still permissible to disagree one assumes? 

Landsteiner posted:

... Actually, you were whimpering about how people less astute than yourself were buying the overpriced (your favorite word of the last year or so) Vision GG1 and ignoring your oh so lovely JLC GG1 which was bargain priced to your way of thinking.  ...

Landsteiner, this is the last thing I'm planning to say on this issue.  But your ability to casually mis-interpret and/or represent people's comments so disrespectfully is a lesson to be learned by all folks posting here.  It's part of social media that I detest.

My comment about the JLC GG-1 (as well as the Superliners) not selling as quick as I thought they would was meant to illustrate more surprise than anything else -- especially since I've sold a few items here.  I find your representation of that comment to infer that I'm speaking in a condescending tone or talking with any level where I'm being more astute than others to be highly offensive -- not to be completely inaccurate.

Thank goodness i don't need you to speak on my behalf, but I don't appreciate you misrepresenting what I post either.  If you wish to participate in this topic, please try to do so without using terms like whimpering and condescension -- only to follow them with a friendly smiley in attempts to give you a pass as if you're being cute.

I'm as thick-skinned as the next guy here, but I also try to welcome other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  Please don't give me cause to make an exception to that rule in you case.

David

"I also try to be respectful of other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  "

Really? Your idea of "respectful" is to characterize another poster's opinions as "psycho-babble?"  Your choice of words in response to those who firmly disagree with you occasionally indicates you view us as fools and/or charlatans.  You are reaping what you sow.  I would humbly suggest more tolerance for the opinions of others, as well as avoiding pompous and repetitious bloviating.

Landsteiner posted:

"I also try to be respectful of other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  "

Really? Your idea of "respectful" is to characterize another poster's opinions as "psycho-babble?"  Your choice of words in response to those who firmly disagree with you occasionally indicates you view us as fools and/or charlatans.  ...

Only in your case, Landsteiner.

Seriously though... Go back and read the post where I used that reference.  It was after you talked about meditation and sorrows of life as a suggestion for how to spend my Sunday.  It had nothing to do with your opinion on the toy train market.  So let's not mix our metaphors to suit your purpose of stirring the pot.

At this point I'm taking the advice of the person who suggested we never argue with a fool any further, lest folks have trouble determining who's who.

David

I think this topic has run its course and time to go.

I got my first Lionel train when I was 5 or 6. Dad bought it used from a local appliance store and the track and accessories were already mounted on a plywood board. Dad and I bought lots more trains (all were new because there was no ebay or OGR forum in the late 50s) until I was 13 and we decided to take the layout apart and store it. I sold everything to a Lionel dealer after I got married because I needed some money. Then when grandchildren came along I began to buy again....but 90% of it is used. There's a ton of good used trains available and since they seem to last forever I see little reason to buy new. I don't know a GP7 from a GP9 or a Prairie from a Berkshire, but my two grandchildren enjoy my trains and think they are something special to play with when at my house.

I buy used cars, used furniture, used computers and sometimes used clothing. I'm just thrifty. And, yes, the desk chair and window ac in this picture were bought used, too.

Rocky Mountaineer,

   David, don't bother to update it, you just sold it, drop me some e-mail at Pine-Creek@live.com we can work out the shipping and total cost! 

A picture here would be nice also!

LandSteiner - That sir is cold hard fact, it really is a decent deal especially if it has low miles on her.    Further stating your personal opinion is not attacking somebody.

Jim P,

   Not quite yet sir I want to purchase the TMCC  JLC GG1 and I do not care what others think, to me the cost is worth it.  I am glad this thread was started I just acquired a GG1 that I really wanted.

Thanks Michael for starting this thread!

PCRR/Dave

Terry Danks posted:

I really seem at odds with so many toy train enthusiasts.

Yes, I had Lionels as a boy, in the 1950s. Tubular track. Had some Super O when I sold everything and left toy trains.

I have zero desire to reacquire any of that stuff! Even back then I just wanted more realistic trains. I hungered after the beautiful models advertised in the magazines. Overland stuff and Walthers scale passenger cars. Of course I could afford none of it on a kid's allowance!

No conventional running, no tubular track, no postwar stuff for me.  Just doesn't interest me. Rather perplexes me that so many people love this stuff. Now we see a resurgence of tinplate . . . with sound no less???

 

And once again, we have an example of "I don't like it, so why in God's name would anyone else like it?"  

I just don't get that mentality.  At all.  I don't give a flying flip what anyone else does/enjoys, it doesn't affect me and it's none of my business.  Too much of that crap on this forum and in society in general...

Billshoff,

     Glad you are happy with all your pre-owned stuff, each to his own!

PCRR/Dave

I have  posted that I just can not pay almost a hundred dollars per boxcar.I have been buying used boxcars from local train stores.Some are from the 70/80s but they may be a bit lite.But I can add weight to them and they fit right in.As for locomotive I brought a conrail locomotive from the little choochoo.At first when I saw it I thought it was a dummy.I picked it up and saw it was no dummy it was powered.It was a williams locomotive price $30.00.So I could not turn it down.A few weeks later they had a marx 333 locomotive.I came close to buying that one but did not.Any way there are deals out there.You just have to look consider what you are willing to pay.And maybe the seller will be willing meet you half way on the price.

Since I am a car and a train nut,  I make comparisons between the two, and I do not see the vintage car market as down as it has, to me, spriraled up and out of sight over the years I have watched it.  I just think a lot of the trains are not old enough to be collectible yet, and are not valuable to the market.  The other problem is that a lot of the same prototype models are made over and over, with, and often without the latest gizmo and go-faster.  Given a choice of the GG-1 cited above, or brand new one that does everything but vote, many will choose the latest version.  (there are, I am sure, a very few who want every version of that or some other prototype that has ever been made, but they shop prices, too)  And, there is planned obsolescence....  For me, what is collectible and expected to rise in price is that which is not made any more.

Farmer_Bill posted:

If you're buying, prices are too high.

if you're selling, prices are too low.

 

 

THIS, and - if you owe somebody money they want it RIGHT NOW. If it is owed to you, well - it is being processed.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Rocky Mountaineer,

   David, don't bother to update it, you just sold it, drop me some e-mail at Pine-Creek@live.com we can work out the shipping and total cost! 

A picture here would be nice also!

LandSteiner - That sir is cold hard fact, it really is a decent deal especially if it has low miles on her.    Further stating your personal opinion is not attacking somebody.

Jim P,

   Not quite yet sir I want to purchase the TMCC  JLC GG1 and I do not care what others think, to me the cost is worth it.  I am glad this thread was started I just acquired a GG1 that I really wanted.

Thanks Michael for starting this thread!

PCRR/Dave

You are welcome. I am glad something good came out of it. Discussion got a little heated.

Thanks for the interesting thread, Mike. I always appreciate the chance to see the perspective of others. . . especially since I'm not a collector. Because of my personal situation, I treat the hobby as a zero-sum game -  whatever I sell gives me resources to buy new things.  I also enjoy re-doing my layout theme every now and then - so that means I regularly get rid of what I have and look for 'new-to-me' items. Also I usually like odd O gauge items like Hornby tinplate and Western Hobbycraft trolleys.

My observation of the odd or rare items I'm always monitoring tallies with those who see a general softening of the market. There does not seem to be the same number of folks chasing what I am interested in than there were five or ten years ago. It also appears that the secondary market, at least online, is still influenced by the time of the year - eg there is a bit more demand for things that may end up a bit more expensive or higher priced in fall / winter versus spring and summer.

That said, I like playing with my toys - and I really love seeing them go off to a new home when I'm done with them. I personally prefer to give a buyer a great price.