What's next after LCT for MTH tinplate ?

To me it really doesn’t make any difference.  Mike owns all the tooling and he will continue making tinplate he just won’t be able to use Lionel’s logo without the agreement.  Everything will be the same beautiful tinplate he’s always produced. I am just as happy to have MTH plates as Lionel. 

      

Chris.

 

Home of the C.L.&M railroad

 

 

 

 

  

MTH Tinplate Traditions works well enough for me. The tinplate trains they have produced have been excellent, and I will continue to buy them when I see something I would like to have regardless of the nameplate on the side. My only problem these days is finding space for a modest all-tin layout, which I would deralylove to have since I still have a lot of trains (O gauge) and accessories.

The only impact, and I've said it before, is the use of the Lionel color palette.  Other than that the Tinplate Traditions will continue to feed the tinplate bug.

Marty Eibeck

 

Below the Signature...

"You used up all the glue on purpose!"

 

I  keep hoping that they will reach a new agreement at some point.

Sorry, but a (replica of a 1930's) tinplate set with logos of a company that didn't even exist, using colors that weren't used, as opposed to a realistic replica of a real Lionel set, doesn't cut it for me!

Glad I've been to York and visited Sidetrack Hobbies for "supplies" on each trip, that has given me a number of Lionel-logo sets that should carry me for quite a while...

OTOH, I collected the complete set of LTC tinplate freight cars (and the recent 263 loco) in cream/orange/blue that makes a beautiful set... I was hoping that MTH might make a matching set of passenger cars with the same color scheme!

Home of the Union Eastern, Thomaston & Williamstown Railroad

eddiem posted:

Glad I've been to York and visited Sidetrack Hobbies for "supplies" on each trip, that has given me a number of Lionel-logo sets that should carry me for quite a while...

 

As others have said, that is probably the situation with most of us.... at least with the standard gauge.  I assume the market is saturated with new items.  There seems to be a lot of standard gauge available from dealers. 

Chris Lonero posted:

To me it really doesn’t make any difference.  Mike owns all the tooling and he will continue making tinplate he just won’t be able to use Lionel’s logo without the agreement.  Everything will be the same beautiful tinplate he’s always produced. I am just as happy to have MTH plates as Lionel. 

I feel the same way Chris. In fact, I kind of miss those purple tinplate traditions boxes. I am not stuck on lionel plates. I love the freight cars Mike has come out with advertisements over the years. It kicked tinplate up a notch, and since Lionel has no interest in making these items, why shouldn't Mike get the credit? Therefore I am proud to have MTH plates on my rails.

Joe Gozzo

Trainlover160 posted:
Chris Lonero posted:

To me it really doesn’t make any difference.  Mike owns all the tooling and he will continue making tinplate he just won’t be able to use Lionel’s logo without the agreement.  Everything will be the same beautiful tinplate he’s always produced. I am just as happy to have MTH plates as Lionel. 

I feel the same way Chris. In fact, I kind of miss those purple tinplate traditions boxes. I am not stuck on lionel plates. I love the freight cars Mike has come out with advertisements over the years. It kicked tinplate up a notch, and since Lionel has no interest in making these items, why shouldn't Mike get the credit? Therefore I am proud to have MTH plates on my rails.

Joe Gozzo

I agree all around,,love the road names,,,,now just wish they could put a box couple on the tenders,,,,they do on the ogauge tinplate,,,zooooooooooom 

I'm in for whatever.  I think MTH owns the Ives name, right?  Seems like a no-brainer to start there.  Make some Ives electrics in PS3!  As far as I know, they haven't done that yet.  And that should satisfy the prototypical wonks because all the badging will be correct.  I was really disappointed that they cancelled the 318E's and 408E's in PS3 from the 2016 catalog.  So I'd be in for those too even with the dreaded "MTH" in that brass/nickel oval.  Also, how about some Christmas sets that aren't based on the 400E?  To summarize, I like tinplate.

Let’s not forget this is costing Mike money to have the privilege to have the big L on the tinplate and boxes.  There will still be plenty of orange and blue tinplate that has already been made still floating around as well as what still is In the pipeline with the current digital Lionel Corp. I think it was a good run while it lasted. 

      

Chris.

 

Home of the C.L.&M railroad

 

 

 

 

  

Chris Lonero posted:

Let’s not forget this is costing Mike money to have the privilege to have the big L on the tinplate and boxes.  There will still be plenty of orange and blue tinplate that has already been made still floating around as well as what still is In the pipeline with the current digital Lionel Corp. I think it was a good run while it lasted. 

as a side note ,I have seen an increase of lct online,,,which I believe we will see more of coming out of the woodwork and marked "rare"

terry hudon posted:
Chris Lonero posted:

Let’s not forget this is costing Mike money to have the privilege to have the big L on the tinplate and boxes.  There will still be plenty of orange and blue tinplate that has already been made still floating around as well as what still is In the pipeline with the current digital Lionel Corp. I think it was a good run while it lasted. 

as a side note ,I have seen an increase of lct online,,,which I believe we will see more of coming out of the woodwork and marked "rare"

Your right Terry the dreaded “Rare” word!    Its like having a boat and anything that has the word “marine” in it is $20 more! 🙄

      

Chris.

 

Home of the C.L.&M railroad

 

 

 

 

  

Yeah, Mike had said on that Wednesday at the Toy Train Museum that it was up in April but they would still make stuff under their line. I think that it is better that way anyway even though I don't collect tinplate. I wonder if MTH will work on any new designs for tinplate as far as engine and car types.

beachhead2 posted:

I'm in for whatever.  I think MTH owns the Ives name, right?  Seems like a no-brainer to start there.  Make some Ives electrics in PS3!  As far as I know, they haven't done that yet.  And that should satisfy the prototypical wonks because all the badging will be correct.  I was really disappointed that they cancelled the 318E's and 408E's in PS3 from the 2016 catalog.  So I'd be in for those too even with the dreaded "MTH" in that brass/nickel oval.  Also, how about some Christmas sets that aren't based on the 400E?  To summarize, I like tinplate.

I also love  the Ives reproductions. A great item to start with would be the Ives red brass tagged 3242 Cardinal Special set from the Tinplate Traditions 2005 catalog that was never built.  

Jim Z

 

I'd like to say that I'm 100% OK w/ MTH not be able to selectively use the "Lionel" name, logo or possibly color likeness, but there will likely be a piece that when seen, will bring back that desire to have that retro-Lionel decoration shown.  That said, I do think MTH did an amazing job on some of their new prototype roadname (PRR, UP, N&W etc.) offerings. 

New tinplate is better than NO tinplate.

You can have a steam train ...If you'd just lay down your tracks.

Tinplate Art posted:

Without MTH, and especially Mike himself, there would be MANY folks without classic tinplate trains!

Without Lionel, there would be a LOT MORE folks without classic tinplate trains... and a LOT LESS classic tinplate trains for Mike to reproduce!

My previous post refers to my interest in O gauge LCT tinplate...

ps. I'd be very interested in more Ives stuff from MTH!

Home of the Union Eastern, Thomaston & Williamstown Railroad

MTH. 

Mike Wolf.  

I wonder if the hallowed halls of Harvard will ever consider one of their classic 'Business Case' publications that does justice to this man, his vision, his passion, his contributions, ....his durability.  After all, re the latter, many of these evolutionary exposés would have had him selling his brand, taking the monetary value of his success and its projection into the future, and smiling from a swinging hammock between a couple of palm trees in a less contentious environment.  

I marvel at the man.

He must have a well-developed anatomy for pandiculation and oscitancy.

Like many other septuagenarians, my hobby passion came in an orange/blue box about 73 years ago.  (Dad's Lionel around the tree is among my earliest prized memories.)

But, through the subsequent years I've found Mike Wolf's re-birth of the O3R portion of the hobby to be the stuff of admiration and dreams.  

Well done, sir!

And I look forward to your continued nurturing of several branches of this wonderful hobby....like MTH Tinplate!

My first love is American Flyer.  However, Ives is in second place.  What I would like to see is the Ives O gauge 1122 reproduced.  Trying to find a complete original and operable example is almost impossible.  And when you do it is pretty expensive.  Also, no modern electronics please.  I could easily be in the market for several of them.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

                                                             

I love mth tinplate.  Paying homage to the past with modern motors and electronics is fantastic.  And while I don’t want my pretty shiny pieces to get banged up, tinplate can be fixed but plastics can shatter.  I am reasonably sure that tinplate will make another comeback under mth’s banner, given a bit of time for remaining inventory to move.  Right now I am working on assembling a collection of all the mth made 816/2816 hoppers I can identify.  Perhaps with the lct arrangement over we will finally see some new wheel arrangements. 

 

May God Bless us all.

DKDKRD: pandiculation and oscitancy? REALLY? SIR: You are at risk of ostentatious etymological pedantry! Be forewarned: I shall be forced to counter with several lines of Beowulf in the West Saxon dialect of Anglo-Saxon (Old English to the uninformed amongst us). Waeshal!

vita sine litteris mors est  (Seneca)

When I asked Mike at York about tinplate he stated no more Lionel or American Flyer so of course with me wearing my Dorfan Train Enthusiasts shirt I asked "how about more Dorfan?" He stated "okay" which was nice...at least I gave him a good suggestion.

 

I'm not sure if this was an anomaly but an MTH version of the 254 Ives Powerhouse just sold on eBay for $264.99 + S&H (MSRP was $149.95 back in 2004).  If the secondary market for Ives reproductions is that strong, time for MTH to get some product out there!

Chris Lonero posted:

To me it really doesn’t make any difference.  Mike owns all the tooling and he will continue making tinplate he just won’t be able to use Lionel’s logo without the agreement.  Everything will be the same beautiful tinplate he’s always produced. I am just as happy to have MTH plates as Lionel. 

If MTH owns the tooling and has Lionel has no hold over the designs, then I still see the MTH tinplate traditions line making a comeback in couple years.  MTH's corporate relationships are none of my business, but if the L still hold any copyrights on the designs, then this is going to take a lot longer.  I would assume that MTH is not beholden to any copyrights issues since they were making the same product under the tinplate traditions line before the LCT agreement came to be, but I don't know that for a fact.  Given Mike's manufacturing origins, I wonder if some of the tooling actually came from Jerry Williams.  Any way, I actually really like the MTH branded nameplate badges, and look forward to seeing them again.

May God Bless us all.

scott.smith posted:
George S posted:

Don't get your hopes up. Lionel owns the Ives name too. They also own American Flyer.

George

Lionel let the Ives name go. MTH has had it for many years now.

Scott Smith

Ahh, you are right. I had to look this up. Even though Lionel bought Ives way back in the early 20th century, they did not maintain the trademark. MTH apparently trademarked the Ives name prior to 2005. This was all part of the MTH / Lionel litigation. Pretty sneaky on MTH's part, but shows Lionel missteps in protecting their IP.

Too bad MTH doesn't have more of the tooling around the Ives O gauge line.

George

It should be noted that Lionel only has a copyright on the orange/blue color combination and NOT on any of the original tinplate colors such as "peacock" and "terra-cotta". MTH has, and can continue, to reproduce Lionel tinplate in any of the prewar Lionel original colors if they choose to do so.

vita sine litteris mors est  (Seneca)

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

My first love is American Flyer.  However, Ives is in second place.  What I would like to see is the Ives O gauge 1122 reproduced.  Trying to find a complete original and operable example is almost impossible.  And when you do it is pretty expensive.  Also, no modern electronics please.  I could easily be in the market for several of them.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Totally agree. My Ives 1122 is complete, but the e-unit has a dead spot and the engine draws 3.5 amps and won't pull too many cars. I won't take it apart to fix it again though, because I don't think I can get it back together again.

George

Well I looked at the MTH MTHRRC last page of new catalog and there is an item for standard gauge tinplate, but there no longer is an o gauge membership item. So it looks like MTH tinplate will be solely for standard gauge- no more  o gauge- very sad. Hope that changes

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beachhead2Steve


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