Axle bushings on Lionel's Berkshires - a permanent fix

When my berk came in it had a broken axle bushing as well.  I had Lionel send two.  Two weeks later I sent my berk back for a motor repair, and it arrived with the same bushing broken.  I popped in the spare.  Something is happening during shipment, or there is a materials issue with the plastic.

Call lionel and ask them to send you the bushings. If they're broken, they're already out of the latches in the truck casting, so just make sure you remove all the pieces, and snap the new ones in yourself. It takes less than 5 minutes, just use a small tool to press the bushing in until it clicks into place.

Paul, I just thought of something... if you glue them in, it is not going to make the bushing any stronger... just harder to dig out when it breaks again.  

Paul - sorry to hear your frustration(s). I remember a few years back I bought a Legacy 844 Northern. Nothing but pain.... but that was another story.

I bought two new berks as well. The 1225 and 765. Both  are fantastic  models.

Both Berks had the bushings that were broken and fell out of the package.

I immediately put two drop of glue on the back side of each bushing and loaded the wheel and bushing assembly in the pilot casting. Took 10 minutes to make sure everything was dry, added some light oil... and I was off and running. 765 2 hours of run time, and the only quirk was every time I turn the locomotive on after the power was off the volume would be all the way down.? Never figured this one out.

The 1225 I am doing laps with now, other than lack of lubrication... all is well.

Clearly the material is being over stressed and then it fractures, the spring tension fit of the front axle will eventually crack them all. If they are not glued in they are going to slide out. Super glue does the trick...

I also had the bushings break, but as part of Lionel's official instructions, they recommended that they be glued in place upon replacement- probably best to follow them.

Can brass bushings be substituted for a more permenant solution?

Don

I just got the new bushings and snapped them in. What do you mean by "spring tension" front axle? The brass pickup does not present much force. And along those lines, I ran the engine before I got the new bushings by having the brass leaf push the axle in rather than out with the broken (tabs off) bushings in place.

Mine have been fine for a couple months so far. It looks like if you push the axle up against the frame of the engine, you can break the tabs on the bushings. The front wheels will strike the frame and put tension on the bearing tabs. Like if the engine were dropped a few inches on the front axle...or dropped lightly while in shipping somewhere.

Well...a company with the record of getting the product to the customer with inadequate quality control like Lionel has, doesn't earn my unquestioning compliance.

 Previous releases of these berkshires didn't seem to have the epidemic of breaking pilot bushings. My 2010 PM had one bushing in upside down but no breakage of any kind.

When the complaints were piling up during delivery of these berkshires and the parts were not up yet. I suggested folks could get pilot bushings for the "previous run" berks and use them, "assuming" the model tooling/ design was likely the same. Some did and they worked fine.

Mike Reagan chimed in and stated he did not recommend using the "previous run" berkshire bushings as the newest berks had "newly designed bushings" that were better.

I don't doubt that the bushings may be "newer design" but IMO the plastic must be too thin/or brittle, that everytime these locos are shipped the bushings are broken.

OR there is some design flaw in the foam packaging the puts too much pressure on the pilot truck.

For whatever reason one or the other changed. off the top of my head Lionel has had 3 or 4 previous runs of these scale berkshires, none of which had an pilot bushing epidemic.

Of course, I don't think any TMCC locos had the epidemic smoke unit motor failure we've seen in recent legacy models either

We don't live in a perfect world, we should be lucky enough that Lionel took some time to even issue a recommended fix. These are toys, not cars or airplanes, and even in those industries they frequently screw something up that leads to TSB's and recommended fixes- doesn't mean that you should ignore it. 

I get that. And they are toys. Over half of what I bought last year needed some kind of fix new out of the box from the big dealers. I didn't ignore the glue fix. I considered it and preferred to try the original design first. I still don't see any issue with the original bearing tabs if the engine isn't dropped on the front pilot wheels. I will admit to glue if things change .

Voicing concerns will help everyone, including Lionel, to get better and enjoy their locomotives. Facts and not emotion will be key.

None of the the previous releases of these berkshires had issues with breaking pilot bushings.

RickO, that's a bold generalization not supported by facts.  I bought the 11203 when it came out, and it was unusable for about a month because of multiple broken bearings that were out of stock at Lionel.

They didn't make as many the first time so the issue wasn't publicized.  I didn't come here on the Forum and whine to the world.  But I did point out to Lionel that it was a bad idea to use brittle plastic (when oil-retaining broze is used by their competitor, and has been the standard for so many years.)  Also that replacement parts should have been readily on hand.

So they were warned.  Last year they ramped up production volume without changing the design, and the forum traffic implies there was a high failure rate.  A similar situation to the recent airbag recalls (although thankfully without the prospect of injury.)  Maybe the third time for Lionel will be the charm?

Why not include a few extra bearings in the box, or even let customers install the wheels themselves?  My 8850 GG-1 arrived without pantographs installed, and I believe lead and trailing trucks had to also be installed prior to operation.  And that loco came from Mt. Clemens, MI in 1980!!

Bobby there's nothing "lucky" about Lionel offering a fix.  The next time I buy a $1300 "toy" that arrives broken or unusable and the manufacturer ignores me, it will be my last purchase from that manufacturer, and I'll let the world know about it, too!  Or I would seek recourse from the retailer, credit card company, etc.  No "luck" involved.  Just expected norms of commercial interaction.

Collectively I think we need to wise up and demand better!  -Ted

Bad choice of words on my part, I wasn't implying there were zero issues with the bushings but were didn't have the numerous complaints regarding bushings broken right out of the box.

There was the occasional tach ring problem, and the failing tender led

Do you know the actual production numbers?? I think there were enough folks that bought them between the NKP 765 which was reviewed by OGR magazine( had tach ring problem) and the two offerings of PM 11146 and the 11203, that we would have seen multiple complaints here, we always do.

I think enough of these things sell from year to year that if theres a common issue, we'll hear about it , especially when it happens right out of the box.

Rick the 11146 was actually a different design- it's the scale Berk which Lionel introduced in 2004, updated with a Legacy optical tach instead of the Odyssey magnetic ring.  The lead & trailing truck bearings might be sturdier, but this model lacks the other enhancements that were introduced with clean-sheet Legacy designs.  I think the aftermarket knows this, because the 11146 Pere Marquette (and the 11129 C&O from the Empire Builder set) show up more often on eBay and generally sell for a lot less.

The 11203 and the slightly later 11212 were improved models benefitting from several mechanical improvements (Buhler motor with dual flywheels, slower 17.5:1 back-drivable gears, etc.)  I was glad I bought one when they came out.  For three years they were pretty rare on eBay, and sold at or above MSRP until this latest batch of Berks was released.  Lionel doesn't release exact production numbers, but this makes me think that not very many were made.

That's my point, the manufacturer DIDN'T ignore you, they OFFERED a fix, and people still find time to complain- so much that we are now beating two dead horses again: O-gauge QA/QC and the Berkshire fiasco.

Companies make mistakes. Product testing is conducted in the confines of the assumptions the product is expected to be subject to, and sometimes a company gets that wrong. This isn't unique to O-gauge toy train manufacturing, it exists in every company that produces any product or conducts any service. You may disagree, and that is fine, but to me it is how the company makes it right in the end. In my experience, I have NEVER had Lionel not make it right- and that's what matters to me, and what I think should ultimately matter to everyone else.

Hi Paul • No super-gluing • I use: 

I like to use Loctite, BLUE 242 Removable.

They also make a RED, but this is permanite.

Seems like Charles Ro tried to help and Butch is a great guy to work with, These axle bushings can cause chaos. You say you do not like to work with glue. Loctite seems to work better then super glue products. If you have an error, during the process. the BLUE can be removed and start over or try the RED no easy button.

Good Luck.

*Loctite is thread lock product, but it has been known to work on clean surfaces.

  Click photo to enlarge.

The trouble with me gluing anything is that glue gets everywhere except where I want it. I am challenged but may give it a try with the Loctite blue or whatever I can get my hands on.

I like the brass bushings idea. If anyone knows of a part # that will fit and where I can buy them please let me know.

If I was retired and the only way I would leave my present home is by someone carrying me out I likely would just stick the new bushings in and enjoy my trains until I kicked the bucket. As it is, I may have to move yet again due to changing job and the thought of dealing with this again is a PITA.