Forgive me if there are other threads detailing this issue. I would love to know which smoke fluid you have had the best results with. My friend told me that he learned from Mike Reagan that the Lionel fluid works best because it does not "gunk" up the resistors. I tried the Lionel "Premium" and I am getting better smoke production. Your experience?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I just ordered the Lionel Premium Smoke fluid from MIKE REAGAN for my VL Niagara. I'll let you know how it works for me. I have used JTs Mega Steam with no ill affects, but with new VL Niagara, I am not going to take a chance on ruining the smoke units.
I was skeptical, but Lionel premium has become my smoke fluid of choice.
This is based on amount of smoke as well as the duration.
I just wish it came in a 8 Oz bottle like Jts, instead of a 2 Oz bottle with 1.5 Oz in it.
Fyi Mike Reagan sells unscented in 1 qt bottles for $60.
I just did the same as Laz......Not taking the chance with my Niagara either. I had heard if you do use the JT smoke....you shold use the Eliminator every so often to cleanse the unit.
-Pete
A lot of chatter about JT vs Lionel smoke fluid.
I wonder where MTH fluid might fit in on the equation. ??
There is likely 2oz there. I think it would be a trade violation not worth the drops to be light on it. Have you measured it?
If your Lionel is under warranty then Lionel Premium is the only choice if you want to get warranty repair. You can agree or disagree with the policy but that is their stand.
I use Lionel Premium in my newer Lionel's. I use mega steam in older engines. Call me crazy but the MTH fluid reminds me of York so I exclusive use it I'm my MTH engines.
Phasing out Mega steam for everything except my Smoking tanker from MTH. The batting that comes out of the MTH Units after mega steam comes out like a maple color (From scents that have sugar such as Hot Chocolate, Gingerbread etc.) even when it is charred. Going back to MTH for MTH locos and probably will get Lionel Smoke for the Lionel Engines.
Mega steam is nice but the downside results in more maintenance when taking things apart.
Ditto on some of the above. After being an equal opportunity smoke fluid user I've settled in with Lionel Premium. Works best for me.
Most smoke. Last longer, no gunk. Lionel pemium!
You guys have turned me. I was a jt guy for more than 14year. Reading up on gunk issue, i am switching to lionel.
Have been using mega steam but after reading all this may want to give Lionel Premium a try
Question - Is there just one Lionel premium or are the Lionel scented smoke fluids part of the premium line ?
Has Lionel premium been around for awhile or is the better fluid part of recent production - I haven't purchased any Lionel fluid in a long time
Thx
Joe S
Scrapiron Scher posted:Forgive me if there are other threads detailing this issue. I would love to know which smoke fluid you have had the best results with. My friend told me that he learned from Mike Reagan that the Lionel fluid works best because it does not "gunk" up the resistors. I tried the Lionel "Premium" and I am getting better smoke production. Your experience?
Ditto.. I switched to premium when I first got the s’3’s with cylinder steam and it solved all my issues. I had used Jt’s before which seems to be a thicker more dense solution. I’m no chemist just my observations. Jt’s worked fine for stack smoke but when it comes to feature smoke effects it seems to be a poor fit. That’s where the lionel seems to make the biggest difference. We had a nice side by side of two legacy Berkshires. Unknowingly one had lionel premium and the other jt’s And the exhaust was similar although the lionel produced more volume. But whistle steam was no contest. It was a nice accidental comparison. Just my experience hope it helps.
Another vote here for Lionel Premium. Btw, why would JT have a need to create, manufacture, and sell an eliminator if their Megasteam burns completely and gunk free? Latent smells are generally a by product of left over residue and if there was no residue there'd be minimal or no smell whatsoever requiring elimination.
I’ve been using Mega with no problems. Apple Harvest
ogaugeguy posted:Another vote here for Lionel Premium. Btw, why would JT have a need to create, manufacture, and sell an eliminator if their Megasteam burns completely and gunk free? Latent smells are generally a by product of left over residue and if there was no residue there'd be minimal or no smell whatsoever requiring elimination.
Fair point. I didn’t think about that when Eliminator was introduced. Using it has helped free up what I think was a gummed up fan motor, so it must have some cleaning effect.
But over some years Lionel Legacy/VL smoke units seem to have become progressively more finnicky and prone to failure than older TMCC and MTH units. If that means they need Lionel fluid, so be it and I’ll use it. I have enough of the less troublesome older stuff to go on using what I am used to. That’s Megasteam and MTH Christmas scents.
dorfj2 posted:Have been using mega steam but after reading all this may want to give Lionel Premium a try
Question - Is there just one Lionel premium or are the Lionel scented smoke fluids part of the premium line ?
Has Lionel premium been around for awhile or is the better fluid part of recent production - I haven't purchased any Lionel fluid in a long time
Thx
Joe S
I know Lionel Premium has pine scent; maybe others.
dorfj2 posted:Have been using mega steam but after reading all this may want to give Lionel Premium a try
Question - Is there just one Lionel premium or are the Lionel scented smoke fluids part of the premium line ?
Has Lionel premium been around for awhile or is the better fluid part of recent production - I haven't purchased any Lionel fluid in a long time
Thx
Joe S
I think I said a few years ago on here that the smoke out put was poor. I believe the engine I used had an underperforming smoke unit. I think the scents smell better than the ones that JT sells that Lionel does.
Scrapiron,
For the same reason I have moved back to Lionel smoke fluid for Lionel steam and diesels. I have replaced the smoke unit and fans on all my units. I could not understand Why. Mike R and the Lionel crew told me their fluid is designed for their products, doesn't leave a film on the components or as you saus gunked up the works. Send lots of money on alternate fluids and quite frankly got tired of makeing repairs. I gotta belive their is some truth to this as my G Scale LGB units do not work well with alternatives so I will rebuilt that smoke unit and go back to LGB. Might be one of those psycho issues but.........
However, on MTH, I don't seem to have that issue, but with that said, I will use all the remaining alternate fluids I have and then probably convert to MTH fluid for MTH products.
The fact that Lionel has been making other scented fluids helped me move in that direction.
I like the other manufacturers as well but given the new comments in the Lionel Niagara Owners manual, they must have the data to support their policy.
Oh, well, I still have about 20 bottles to use up in my MTH engines that I got at York and since theysmoke fantastic, I am not gonna worry to much
Scented vs un-scented: I started using scented Lionel Premium per recommendations on the forum; but switched to un-scented in the Niagara - great smoke there. I am hesitant in using scented after seeing a brown residue separate out in the scented. Maybe that is the gunk so often referred to.
I am no expert on adding smoke fluid to a unit - have either drowned or starved many. Here are 2 links to an experiment that laidoffsick did regarding smoke fluid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRcpFRtA6IY#t=180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asUWbJtfok
When I rebuilt the stack smoke units on my Big Boy, I used 1 1/2 strands of Lionel batting in each chamber and an initial 70 drops of Lionel smoke fluid per chamber - no puddles and no running out when I inverted the units.
One last thing on dosage, I saw with the Big Boy that the fluid had a path to get thru - enough to wet the funnel, wet the resistor, then drip into the batting.
Most of my fleet is MTH, so I use MTH smoke fluid. I have diesels only and only a couple are Lionel. Personally, I like the Christmas scent the best. I didn't like JT's smoke scents that I tried, but I actually do like their Eliminator and it's scent so I use that sometimes as well. However, not usually for it's intended purpose, just for the scent. I have never tried the Lionel Premium, but I may give a couple of their new scented ones a try this winter.
I have always felt that the original American Flyer cedar scent was the best.
Scrapiron Scher posted:Forgive me if there are other threads detailing this issue. I would love to know which smoke fluid you have had the best results with. My friend told me that he learned from Mike Reagan that the Lionel fluid works best because it does not "gunk" up the resistors. I tried the Lionel "Premium" and I am getting better smoke production. Your experience?
I personally like the wide arrange of scents MTH offers but the smoke output becomes poor pretty fast in non-MTH locomotives. I use Lionel or JT’s smoke fluid in my non-MTH locomotives (Weaver, Atlas, and Lionel) and MTH protosmoke fluid in my MTH locomotives.
RickO posted:Fyi Mike Reagan sells unscented in 1 qt bottles for $60.
Is this available online?
MichRR714 posted:RickO posted:Fyi Mike Reagan sells unscented in 1 qt bottles for $60.
Is this available online?
mreagan@twtrainworx.com
RickO posted:MichRR714 posted:RickO posted:Fyi Mike Reagan sells unscented in 1 qt bottles for $60.
Is this available online?
mreagan@twtrainworx.com
Thanks Rick.
FWIW...
In my own VERY limited experience; I had been using MTH "Proto Smoke", because that's what I bought; my "new" Lionel E6 came with a small vial of Lionel (of course) fluid, so I tried it. It (the Lionel stuff) does appear to put out more smoke than the other product, so I have ordered another container of it.
Again, that's what I found to be the case; you veteran Lionel guys know a lot more, so (please) don't listen to me... 
Mark in Oregon
This might be the residue that Mike talks about.
Doug did two videos a few years ago. I rewatched them today. And it helped me make a decision on smoke.
I just wanted to throw this in....I'm no expert. There are many that have locomotives in need of the smoke units being re built. People don't want to tackle it themselves or go through the hassle of sending it in. Soooo... they trial run all kinds of smoke fluid to see if that will help the problem.These smoke units need the elements and the batting replaced every so often.If you have burnt resistors, burnt batting and fried smoke PCB's changing smoke fluid is "not gonna solve your problem"
Make sure you know your smoke unit is up to par first then decide on what fluid works best for you. At least thats my take on this.
Nick
Here, here Nick. I am with you on smoke units; having rebuilt the unit in the Big Boy and if you can find out what screws release the boiler, you can rebuild the unit yourself. I have been lucky in that Lionel had the parts I needed; else, fellas on the forum can help.
Those were very informative for sure; thanks for the links!
Mark in Oregon
I used Lionel Premium tonight in several Legacy locos where the smoke was poor. Tonight the smoke was outstanding !!
Lionel Premium for me in ALL Legacy locos.
RickM46 posted:Here, here Nick. I am with you on smoke units; having rebuilt the unit in the Big Boy and if you can find out what screws release the boiler, you can rebuild the unit yourself. I have been lucky in that Lionel had the parts I needed; else, fellas on the forum can help.
I have to agree with you Rick..it can be very intimidating to remove the boilers of the Big Boys, Challengers, etc. Just takes practice. Nick
rockstars1989 posted:RickM46 posted:Here, here Nick. I am with you on smoke units; having rebuilt the unit in the Big Boy and if you can find out what screws release the boiler, you can rebuild the unit yourself. I have been lucky in that Lionel had the parts I needed; else, fellas on the forum can help.
I have to agree with you Rick..it can be very intimidating to remove the boilers of the Big Boys, Challengers, etc. Just takes practice. Nick
Yes Nick, in addition, I must give credit to the fellas on the forum for helping me do the rebuild; you can't go wrong with their advice and patience and attention to detail.
railbear601 posted:I just don't get it...
...Inquiring minds want to know what is happening when you heat and burn smoke fluid.
If you are heating & burning smoke fluid, there is a malfunction somewhere.
The quest by the hobbyist to bring big plumes of dark coal smoke to O gauge railroads has been thwarted time and again by the realization that those "smoke" generators are, alas, simply just vaporizers.
No combustion.
railbear601 posted:...There is only one Chain Pharmacy in the Entire World that sells NO TOBACCO PRODUCTS and that Chain is CVS Pharmacy...
Wegmans Pharmacy would be the other.
There may be concerns in the scenting, but this is mineral oils for the most part. Not as clean as medical grade, but likely not much different or more dangerous than the air fresheners sold in these same stores.
I think your caught up in the word smoke Railbear. It's vapor. Evaporated liquid. A gas.
My pharmacist and doctor use mineral oil on cutting boards and wooden kitchen utenstils. They didn't see a likely hood of either use as likely being a health concern for me. The amount ingested is minimal. It's not like we are sucking on a smokestack. A trip in heavy traffic is far worse; my lungs tell me so every time I smell diesel 
I haven't used the Lionel Premium, but Protosmoke is the thickest fluid I've used, and my Generals unit will drown in it, failing to work for a week or so until enough evaporation and settlling can happen that the resistor can grow hot enough to work again. It works great on vintage Lionel fluid and P&P from Pat's. Lionel vintage lasts longer, P&P smokes better.
75 steam.locos and I use mega steam. even in the Niagara and have had zero problems to date! To me moderation is the key!
I do a lot of smoke unit work. The Mega Steam has always worked excellent for me.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
