Connecting accessory to insulated track

Perfectly fine and welcome,  Phil!  What sort of track and transformer are you using?   My first reaction is that your problem may be dirty track or a worn out transformer...  

Mitch 

Thanks for the reply Mitch.  It's an O27 track and all track is 2 years old or less.  Only used over the holidays and then stored.  The locomotive and cars are from a 45 year old Marx train and I got a rebuilt American Flyer 17B Transformer (not sure on the wattage) 2 years ago as well.  I have a light tower that lights up fine and train runs fine.  I've checked all the connections and all the rails that I swapped seemed secure.  Thx.

The other issue to consider: How are the accessories being powered? From a separate accessory power source or track power?

Hopefully the former.

All from the transformer.  I have one wire soldered to the outside insulated  rail and then second wire back to transformer.

Phil Wilkins posted:

All from the transformer.  I have one wire soldered to the outside insulated  rail and then second wire back to transformer.

Right I get that, but where I was going was making the assumption that you are using an accessory output on the transformer that is separate from track power. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but if you use track power that would be one explanation for the problem.

If it was me I'd start with trying a different transformer in an effort to diagnose by process of elimination. Then track and wiring connections, etc. 

You are correct. I am using the 15V output on the transformer for the accessories and the 7-15 and base terminals for track power.  This is all new to me as I was just trying to set up my old Marx train for my grandsons and now trying to jazz it up a bit.   I ran three accessories using the insulated rails the past two years and now this year, not working.  I just measured voltage output with just the train running and read 10-11 volts.

Is there any other way to hook up accessories without modifying the track sections and soldering directly to the rails?  Thx !

I'm assuming that you have a transformer with a common ground for track and accessories, and that you are using an insulated ground rail to activate the accessories.   What you do in that case is ground both the track and the accessories to the ground terminal on the transformer, run the 15v line to the accessories and the 7-15v line to the center rail of the track.  That should allow you to run the accessories independently of the train.   As the train passes the accessory, the wheel grounds the insulated rail, allowing current to run to the accessory.   If you're still getting poor performance,  you probably need a more powerful transformer.   

Good luck!   Keep us posted, and if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask! 

Mitch 

johnstrains posted:

Phil Wilkins posted:

All from the transformer.  I have one wire soldered to the outside insulated  rail and then second wire back to transformer.

Right I get that, but where I was going was making the assumption that you are using an accessory output on the transformer that is separate from track power. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but if you use track power that would be one explanation for the problem.

If it was me I'd start with trying a different transformer in an effort to diagnose by process of elimination. Then track and wiring connections, etc. 

Hmm…definitely a mystery since you had the same set-up last year with no issues.

That voltage output for the accessories may be Ok but seems like it may be on the edge of the low side. Again, I’d suggest getting your hands on another, more modern, transformer and see what happens.

Btw, if you don’t solder the connections to the insulated track sections, how are they connected? Lock ons? I have 6-7 insulated track sections on my PW-style layout for triggering accessories and I solder them on to the insulated side. Makes a solid connection. I can understand not soldering since this is a once a year holiday layout.

edit: Good suggestions from Mitch above.

Let me try tagging a question onto this old chain. I’m making insulted track to operate various accessories. In most cases I’m using fixed auxiliary power go the accessories. The isolated outside rail is wired to the accessory?  Anything else?  Do I also need to tap into the center rail for anything.

Don:
If you have auxiliary power connected to your accessory then you do not want to connect to the middle rail of you track otherwise you are basically connecting two power sources to the same accessory.

If you don't' use aux power you can connect the accessory to the center rail - that was how Lionel set up connections to their accessories for a long time and still do for their Fastrack - see attached photos. They also have this option for their IR detectors.
A lot of model railroaders -me included -  like to have a power source dedicated to track and a separate power source for accessories (a different post on the same transformer is fine) while making sure your have a common ground.

Thanks. I’ll just use the wiring soldered to the center rail for a power tap on a long layout. I’m running two mainlines on my ZW, with auxiliary power to all switches and accessories.  A second transformer (a 1032) powers my trolley and it’s accessories

" I just measured voltage output with just the train running and read 10-11 volts."  - was that measurement on the train output terminals 0-15 or the accessory output 15V ?   Start at the beginning - at what voltage does your accessory work at or recommended  to work at.  Next hook that accessory directly to the 0-15 volt output of the transformer and slowly increase the voltage.  See what voltage it runs at.  A pair of clip leads would help here.  Then see what voltage you have when the accessory. is activated by a car going over the insulated rail. If you have anything else connected to the accessory outputs make sure they are on such as lights etc.  If you trip two accessories at one time with the insulated outside rail make sure that is activated and actually try it with and with out.  Lets see what you get.

A great post, full of useful information.  I am getting ready to do the same thing to power my accessories and use an insulated rail..

But, so many different replies with different variations, that I am now  confused.

Would it be possible for someone to post a simple hand drawn diagram, of where to attach  the 15 volt hot line to the track from the transformer, and where to attach the common/ground line to the track from the transformer, so that the accessories can run independently of the track power?    I kinda understand Mitch's explanation, but not totally.

Thx,

Mannyrock

reviving old thread, as have the same , thinking,  Sometimes, need a picture, 

I understand , the need for 2 types, of power to insulated track. EITHER,  lockon or soldered wire to rails.  I am going with lockon,  So, seeing all notes, saying go to power or accessory transformer.   I am going with usage of secondary transformer, that has nothing for the moment, hooked.  Main ZW I feel need to begin the usage of my 2nd Transformer as I have further expansion.  My question, is utilzing seperate power transformer, ?? question>>  what will happen with train, as it goes across the insulated track and the voltage is different.  since I am turning on 2 seperate transformers for the track, do I just spend the time to be sure it is close, and  do I use a track or an accessory,  A B C or D, post   as it will be a Kw for this item.  thanks - Terry

I recommend using an accessory transformer with plenty of power to power the accessory. Use a lock on with a wire connected to the accessory and the track with the insulated rail so the insulated rail triggers the accessory when the train runs over it. And, have wires running from the common (ground) and hot posts of the transformer to the accessory.

I recommend that you have a separate, and more powerful, transformer to power you main line(s), and wires would run from the ground and hot posts of that main line transformer to a lock-on connected to the main line track(s), not the insulated rail track.

It can't hurt to have the accessory transformer and main line transformer phased, but it may not be necessary to do that.

I just did the above to install a modern Lionel Double Track Signal Bridge triggered by insulated rail tracks. It works like a charm, much better, IMO, than using the old fashioned weight bearing devices to trigger the change from green light to red light as the train passes through.

Arnold

Here's a simple diagram of wiring using my Insulated Track Signal Driver, Rev. 2.  This diagram illustrates both the track signal driver board and the load all using aux power.

Gunnerjohn,

will your insulated track signal driver rev2 operate the old Lionel 154 signals with three terminals?

@Don Baird posted:

Gunnerjohn,

will your insulated track signal driver rev2 operate the old Lionel 154 signals with three terminals?

Nope, you need an oscillator that performs the blinking operation for those.  You can use this kind of circuit to flash them.