Up grading , my Weaver Hiawatha cars to full detailed Scale from trucks to roof vents, and a complete interior for each type of car. To date I have painted about 350 figures including crews for 2 trains, and now working on interior details. My question is on luggage rack s and luggage , have you added this detail? have you made your own , do you have a vendor ?
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Would love to see some photos!
@Dave Koehler posted:luggage , have you added this detail?
Try looking at Berkshire Valley and Scale City Designs.
Yes, l also would always love to see pictures of Milwaukee Road.
Ray
@Dave Koehler posted:Up grading , my Weaver Hiawatha cars to full detailed Scale fromtrucks to roof vents, and a complete interior for each type of car. To date I have painted about 350 figures including crews for 2 trains, and now working on interior details. My question is on luggage rack s and luggage , have you added this detail? have you made your own , do you have a vendor ?
Request: Provide a vendors list with contact/website info for the various parts you've purchased. The list would be a GREAT supplement to any photos you post.
Good luck with the project!
For luggage, I used styrene strips and rods. Cut to length, score the gap between lid and main part, add HO Scale grab irons, or simply bent brass wire, for handles:
Additional sources for O Scale detail parts, Altoona Model Works and Hobbylinc.
Well , I woke up to more snow on the ground ( yes its May 1 ) and its a Dark Day both in and out of my Appt. I will try to post Pics on what I have so far, later today. Been back at my books and Photo's trying to pick up mor details, but more of that later
@John Sethian posted:For luggage, I used styrene strips and rods. Cut to length, score the gap between lid and main patr, add HO Scale grab irons or simpy bent brass wire for handles:
Hat boxes, almost forgot about those
@Pingman posted:Request: Provide a vendors list with contact/website info for the various parts you've purchased. The list would be a GREAT supplement to any photos you post.
Good luck with the project!
will do
Here we go, this it the set I am starting with, the 1935/35 style cars made by Weaver for what they called the Morning Hiawatha, and compared to what's been done in other scales its not bad, just lacking a few details. the cars are aluminum extrusion's , with an annoying set of braces along the inside of the car sides for strength, and an injected floor with seating that has little to do with the Hiawatha style cars and will go down the road. When lit you can see a lot of the insides of the cars, including seats flooring walls and details above and beyond just the seated passengers and crew.
I have a set just like that so following closely. Thanks for posting your progress.
This is what 332 seated figures looks like as well as 1 steward and the luggage I still need to come up with
@Dougklink posted:I have a set just like that so following closely. Thanks for posting your progress.
do you have the 3 rail or 2 rail trucks?
3 rail. I'm planning to improve the lighting and replace the dark green window film with clear then add interior details.
I believe the ridges along the inside of the extrusion are for securing the end caps (top) window strips (middle of sides) and seating the extrusion on the floor stamping (bottom of sides).
The only place I've ever seen luggage racks being modeled was a video of a Japanese scratchbuilder showing how he builds HO scale coaches and electric multiple-unit cars from sheet brass. Not saying no O scalers have done it, but it would be a challenge locating examples of any who have, since most photos of superdetailed interiors wouldn't show them.
---PCJ
In no way did weaver design the seat insert for theses cars . they appear to be from an injected molded cars. . The plastic glazing is held in by 2 sided tape , and really has nothing to do with ribs on the inside of the extrusion , my guess is that they may have been planed for a deferent car not the HI. The only real complaint I have is Weavers, dies have the body coming straight down and making a 90 degree into the floor , where as the prototype tappers at the bottom transitioning to a 2.75" radius where it meets the floor. No Biggie I don't think any one gets that right
Today was spent diving to 3 deferent cities for a trip of about 100 miles just to find the supplies I needed to start the new interiors for the coaches, styrene bass wire steel piano wire ( for the baggage racks) and bass wood for the floor and walls for the men's and women's smoking lounges and 2 water closets for the coach seats I have come up with #28-255 from Scale City Designs as well astheir#48-3017 resign seats for the lounge and beavertail lounge cars . I haven't figured out the smoking lounge seating yet. Trying to figure out lighting , the lighting board supplied by Weaver give it a nice warm Glow , ( as the period 1930's had) but proto type had an odd shaped fixture, that's attached to the column between each window above the window line.. as far as interior color's the ceiling is Ivory , the wall were paneled with a imported South American Mahagany . ( Note , not brown and flesh colored, as described in some books ) I have no Idea on what to do on simulating the paneling, so any Ideas would help!
The pic show my color test , The colors described were Rose , Moss green , and Cranberry. and were described as very "High end plush, Spared no expense "
@Dave Koehler posted:......paneled with a imported South American Mahagany . ( Note , not brown and flesh colored, as described in some books ) I have no Idea on what to do on simulating the paneling, so any Ideas would help!
Midwest used to sell 1/32" thick cherry and mahogany 3" sheet wood. Have not looked for it in many years....have to take a look to see if I have any left.
@Dave Koehler posted:Today was spent diving to 3 deferent cities for a trip of about 100 miles just to find the ...snip...
Diving?? I hope that you did not have to spend too much time decompressing. 
@PRRMP54 posted:Diving?? I hope that you did not have to spend too much time decompressing.
I uses to have a secretary type for me, I need her back...LOL
Dave
If you want the .stl file for these let me know.
The FormLabs 3+ printer cost was reduced to $2499. as an owner I can get you another $500 off that price.
@AlanRail posted:
Dave
If you want the .stl file for these let me know.
The FormLabs 3+ printer cost was reduced to $2499. as an owner I can get you another $500 off that price.
too modern
hardwood suppliers may have the wood veneer you're looking for. usually about 3/64" thick.
@Pingman posted:WOW!!!
yeah, they look great! just the wrong style for my cars
@mwb posted:Midwest used to sell 1/32" thick cherry and mahogany 3" sheet wood. Have not looked for it in many years....have to take a look to see if I have any left.
Found cherry , as well as other veneers, now just wondering about the size of one to one woodgrain in a 1/48th interior. also still questioning the material thickness with the inside ribs of the car extrusions they take up about 6mm
So I know you really want to have an authentic appearance but that's not real luggage and they are plastic people with painted on clothes. So can't the paneling be something printed onto vinyl? Say a brown vinyl with wood grain lines printed onto it? It's really just background for all the other cool stuff people are seeing through the windows.
@Dougklink I was thinking the same thing. I rather think the wood would have tones and finish the other options just don't have. Think about laser cut wood buildings vs cast plaster vs molded plastic and its variations.
Yeah, the wood grain won't match but an observant viewer might recognize real wood and then not ever realize the mismatch in grain size. It might even be stunning to have distinct grain patterns - depending on placement in the cars.
I've schlepped around a shoe box size of sample veneers for nearly 60 years with little idea on what to do with them except as a reference to grain patterns. Now I have a use for those sheets.
The ideas we get on this forum 
!!!
ScoutingDad and Dougklink,I like your thinking on this. I have a piece and some printed paper / Vinal that I can try when it gets here this week. I do have.an on going issue . how would you remove the stiffening ribs on the interior car sides?
I don't think you can remove them. You'll have to go for the look not perfection. Can you use the vinyl between the ribs above and below the windows with seperate pieces and then another in the window areas? That seems like the only doable thing to me. For this type of car construction anyway.
@Dave Koehler posted:how would you remove the stiffening ribs on the interior car sides?
Might be able to mill those out if you block the body shell carefully and make a lot of shallow passes.
But, if those are there for stiffening, might removing them result in a different problem?
@mwb posted:Might be able to mill those out if you block the body shell carefully and make a lot of shallow passes.
But, if those are there for stiffening, might removing them result in a different problem?
Removing the stiffeners them selves , would have no effect , the metal is stable and thick enough, But there is not a week that goes by that I dont miss my Mill , but at 700lbs they dont move well
@Dave Koehler posted:Removing the stiffeners them selves , would have no effect , the metal is stable and thick enough, But there is not a week that goes by that I dont miss my Mill , but at 700lbs they dont move well
Well, if that's not a problem then, reliance upon the kindness of strangers with a mill might be a viable option. But not the sort of shop tool I possess.
Well, how about covering them with paper - kind of like the head liners in cars, or planes for that matter. Sides can be paneled. The only thing I am scratching my head over is around the windows.
Paper or wall paper samples whether paper or vinyl.
Well the first of the printed paper came in, , spent 5 hours , tying to cut down those ribs for a total of 1mm. ( not good )
I gave up on trying to cut down the Ribs, so filling them in seemed logical. although it used 7mm from the inside of the cars interior. 
I used 2.5mmx 2.5mm square stock to fill in the gap from the floor rail to just below the window rail. For the gap where the window glazing sits , I cut 2 pieces of 1.75mm bass wood, traced the widows from the out side of the car, cut each one out for each side of the car , primed and sanded them. I reinstalled the plastic using paper masking tape to simulate the shades , applied the vinyl shelf paper to the window inserts , Sprayed testors clear coat over the car body to give it the proper shine (they were painted in gloss, not flat paint ) Then pressed the window inserts to the inside of the car.
What are you guys using for lighting? Remember I'm dealing with a 1930s prototype,, the transition from the old heavy weight cars, to the first Lt. weight modern cars ever designed. so no florescent or in your face blue white LED's . How are you doing period lighting?
That looks great!
@Dougklink posted:That looks great!
well its coming along , just 4 more to do after this one , plus a baggage , an 2 more coaches to complete the train. this will be pulled by my Overland A1. after tis I hope to detail the 1936 cars and with a lot of luck convert my Weaver A3 to 2 rail. The rest of my 3 Rail including my 1938 cats and weaver A1 (already listed) will be listed for sale soon
@Dave Koehler posted:What are you guys using for lighting? Remember I'm dealing with a 1930s prototype,, the transition from the old heavy weight cars, to the first Lt. weight modern cars ever designed. so no florescent or in your face blue white LED's . How are you doing period lighting?
I was going to answer Warm White LED strips but they are still too white. Here is one of my K-Line Super Chief coach with Warm White LEDs.
For 1930s I would use Yellow or Amber LEDs.
GRJ compared Yellow and Warm White LEDs Here:
Warm White:
Yellow:
For a less intense yellow color you can paint Warm White LEDs with Tamiya Clear Orange Acrylic paint as shown here by forum user S-Runner.
Whatever color choice you make, remember to adjust the light intensity way down for 1930s cars.
Bob
@RRDOC posted:I was going to answer Warm White LED strips but they are still too white. Here is one of my K-Line Super Chief coach with Warm White LEDs.
For 1930s I would use Yellow or Amber LEDs.
GRJ compared Yellow and Warm White LEDs Here:
Warm White:
Yellow:
For a less intense yellow color you can paint Warm White LEDs with Tamiya Clear Orange Acrylic paint as shown here by forum user S-Runner.
Whatever color choice you make, remember to adjust the light intensity way down for 1930s cars.
Bob
Ah that's what I am talking about. getting close to the lighting for the period! In the coach I am trying to detail here the interior lights were mounted , were the vertical columns between the windows and under the luggage racks using the brass wire for part of the electrical system. Since I run on dead rail, I will be installing a battery in the bar /cafe car and mu the cars together with a micro plug and harness to power the lighting eliminating any flicker, or extra electronics for each car. I'm not the greatest at LED's , but have ordered a plethora of Bulbs and LED's to see what works best.
I also noticed we use the same figures , did you have any thing special ? I see they line up great with the windows
@Dave Koehler posted:I'm not the greatest at LED's , but have ordered a plethora of Bulbs and LED's to see what works best.
Have you looked at the products from Evans Designs?
The figures are the unpainted less-detailed Chinese knockoffs of the Preiser figures as well as the rubbery Beep People that K-line provided. There are some other plastic figures from a box of junk I bought (Lady in pink and man with bent elbow). I have never figured out where they came from but I'd like to get more. Many of those figures had hats which is nice for my 1950s time frame. I primed all the figures and painted them with craft paints. I actually enjoy painting the figures. I've done about 300 so far and have another 1200 to go to reasonably populate my passenger cars.
The Chinese figures are in the package.
Does anyone know the source of the figures in the bag?
I did improve the crappy K-line coach seats by adding headrests made from styrene rods and adding headrest covers I printed and of course painting the seats.
Bob
@mwb posted:Have you looked at the products form Evans Designs?
well thank you. they seem to have everything, I will need
wow those cars have a lot of room. I raised my seats about 2mm and cut open the front and back of my coach seats to give me leg room. those are some of the same figures.
The legroom was pretty good, but I did have to cut off the feet of a lot of the figures due to the seats being too low. See the lady in tan and the lady in blue. The dilemma is that if you put in seats with proper height, then the figures sit too high to look out the windows.
Bob
@RRDOC posted:The legroom was pretty good, but I did have to cut off the feet of a lot of the figures due to the seats being too low. See the lady in tan and the lady in blue. The dilemma is that if you put in seats with proper height, then the figures sit too high to look out the windows.
Bob
There I was lucky. To get the correct contour of the sides and end , Removed the under carriage details and trucks and reinserted the floor . This gave me an extra 2.25mm even with a new floor insert made of bass wood
@Dave Koehler posted:well thank you. they seem to have everything, I will need
I've started using their products to light structures. Easy enough for this dinosaur to use, too. 
As I wait for Electrical components , and fabricate what I need to detail the under bodies I have included photo's of roof vents placed over the Men's and women's WC's , as well as the gutters for over the doors on the vestibule's. the vent were fabricated in bass wood and the gutters styrene square stock. The only other roof detail will be a rib or vent that ran along the length to the cars above the Center line of the roof, as well as a wireless antenna for the intercom system . If any one has a good photo of the roof of one of the brass models please post it 
@mwb posted:I've started using their products to light structures. Easy enough for this dinosaur to use, to@mwb posted:I've started using their products to light structures. Easy enough for this dinosaur to use, too.
I do know how to do a lot thing s , when it comes to model railroading , but when it come to passenger car roof and lighting, I still get that DEAR IN THE HEAD LIGHTS LOOK!
Well its been a week and a half and have installed my lighting . After going back and forth between grain of wheat and LEDs the LEDs won out , giving me the best intensity per car , The color is a little off and will be adjusting that with a coat of transparent orange paint. I have mounted KD couplers and started detailing the under carriage " Weaver missed the boat on details below the body lines, Including , what they call 2 rail scale trucks t( that are actually from the 1938 style train)but for now they will have to do. Sorry for the quality of these pics , I ran over my phone/ camera, and until I can find a 10 year old to show me how download my new phone to the PC , this will be it for a while
@Dave Koehler posted:....I ran over my phone/ camera, and until I can find a 10 year old to show me how download my new phone to the PC , this will be it for a while
For Windows 11 and I think 10 also, there is a Phone Link app. It connects to the phone over wifi and you can text, call and transfer pictures with it from the PC. Videos still need a USB cable from the phone to the PC for my android. Now that I have a phone that will take good close up shots it saves me a lot of time transfering pictures.
@Dave Koehler do you have a drawing of what the underbody detail should look like? I know they are missing a number of items on the morning train. The most obvious difference in the trucks is the lack of generator on the end of the truck frame which I plan to add to mine. What color are you using to match the underbody color?
@Dave Koehler posted:Weaver missed the boat on details below the body lines,
Dave, I second the statement. That strip of something on the underside is OK for hiding the lighting, but needs to go when the LEDs get installed.
Any ideas to upgrade these cars would be helpful. I have the morning train (square windows on the tail) and the Art Deco style passenger sets. Both would be helped by a little detail. Any suggestions on alternate couplers for these cars? They are much longer than any others I have seen. I have the 3 rail sets and intend on keeping the high flanges.
If anyone knows how to remove the button uncouplers without damaging the uncoupler, please let me know. They look to be a soldered assembly. I do not see a reason to need the magnetic uncoupler and prefer to remove it. Kadees are an option.
At some point I have a couple of Walther's kits I'll try to tackle.
@Dougklink posted:@Dave Koehler do you have a drawing of what the underbody detail should look like? I know they are missing a number of items on the morning train. The most obvious difference in the trucks is the lack of generator on the end of the truck frame which I plan to add to mine. What color are you using to match the underbody color?
Since the Milwaukee Road ,and the archive ,was given to , the Milwaukee library. I was on the hunt for the mechanical drawings, and no one could find them. So I used the drawings from Model rail roader from 1984? there was a 3/16th scale set of drawings , side and end elevations In color. as well as floor plans for the Beaver tail , Caffe and Coach/parlor cars in TT scale of all things I got a copy on " the Bay" and scaled the drawings up to 0 . so far I Have used bass wood and styrene for the detail parts . I still have to make the steam vents? and correct stairs at the vestibule's, as far as the brown I just used Crafters closet acrylic craft pain Brown . from dollar general. Its close enough for the underside.
Thanks Dave. Frustrating that they aren't in the archives. Scribbins Hiawatha book has some great photos of the ribbed side cars but not any really good ones of the earlier cars that a guy can scale.
ings
@Dougklink posted:Thanks Dave. Frustrating that they aren't in the archives. Scribbins Hiawatha book has some great photos of the ribbed side cars but not any really good ones of the earlier cars that a guy can scale.
ings
Very frustrating! I have a book here by the Milwaukee shops Inc " Hiawatha nothing faster on rails" The definitive book on everything in Hiawatha Cars from 1936 -1942 , great drawings coped and printed from the archive as well as photo's and descriptions , but there is very little on the first series of cars 19935/1935. I have plans from Cleaveland models ( the First model company to produce a kit of the Hiawatha in 1935 ( but they are a little off) , I have a few early Walthers cars that were made to go with Lionels 250E , but they are a little off. Yet the Brass importers have produced Models in brass that are perfect.
@ScoutingDad posted:Dave, I second the statement. That strip of something on the underside is OK for hiding the lighting, but needs to go when the LEDs get installed.
Any ideas to upgrade these cars would be helpful. I have the morning train (square windows on the tail) and the Art Deco style passenger sets. Both would be helped by a little detail. Any suggestions on alternate couplers for these cars? They are much longer than any others I have seen. I have the 3 rail sets and intend on keeping the high flanges.
If anyone knows how to remove the button uncouplers without damaging the uncoupler, please let me know. They look to be a soldered assembly. I do not see a reason to need the magnetic uncoupler and prefer to remove it. Kadees are an option.
At some point I have a couple of Walther's kits I'll try to tackle.
The 1936/37 train that weaver made ( the After noon Hiawatha ) I have, came with Their version of KD's and scale flanges, ran it on a loop of 072 fast track with no issues plus it brought the cars closer together ( much better looking) I will never understand why every one uses working couplers on passenger cars, no one ever switches them in a yard , they always run them together! PS In the next day or so I will open my 19938 set and check out those couplers for you and let you know!
Good point about the couplers. My tightest curves are 072 so I'm planning to install Kadees and get them closer together. The KLines are pretty good in that regard but could be a little better. Most of the E units I've seen are way too far apart and again, who uncouples an ABA set of F's or E's?
@Dave Koehler. Dave the Weaver versions I have are the 3R ones. From what I've seen, the 2R versions went with the Kadee versions. Can't imagine a 2R'er being happy with lobster claws. BTW I have not had much luck running scale wheel sets on my Ross track with 072 diameter curves.
@Dougklink posted:Good point about the couplers. My tightest curves are 072 so I'm planning to install Kadees and get them closer together. The KLines are pretty good in that regard but could be a little better. Most of the E units I've seen are way too far apart and again, who uncouples an ABA set of F's or E's?
Thats just it, you don't. Even when EMD delivered their FT units they were presently coupled in an ABA configuration with a draw bar between units
@ScoutingDad posted:@Dave Koehler. Dave the Weaver versions I have are the 3R ones. From what I've seen, the 2R versions went with the Kadee versions. Can't imagine a 2R'er being happy with lobster claws. BTW I have not had much luck running scale wheel sets on my Ross track with 072 diameter curves.
Is it the gauge or the rail head? I never held a piece .
Dave - Ross rail has a somewhat flattened top, but not flat like Atlas track. I am told by others scale wheels will run on Ross track. It may be my track laying skill or lack thereof that caused the issues. Or it may be that the European cars are slightly different with the 1:43 scale -proportions
I have since moved and began a rebuild of my 3R Scale layout - with an eye toward improved track laying. So I went ahead and checked the MTH European cars I have (as I was responding to your question). A short box car with fixed single axles on either end will run on an 072dia curve - MTH shows 031R/062D min, but not the curved Ross Turnouts, the frogs look to have too much gap for the scale wheels. Car #20-90942G However an LMS Passenger car will run on the 072 diameter curves and curved switches, although MTH calls for 042R/084D. Car #22-60052A
So in hindsight, I have to say my previous experience was more a result of my poor track laying. Getting the track right is making the difference.
@ScoutingDad posted:Dave - Ross rail has a somewhat flattened top, but not flat like Atlas track. I am told by others scale wheels will run on Ross track. It may be my track laying skill or lack thereof that caused the issues. Or it may be that the European cars are slightly different with the 1:43 scale -proportions
I have since moved and began a rebuild of my 3R Scale layout - with an eye toward improved track laying. So I went ahead and checked the MTH European cars I have (as I was responding to your question). A short box car with fixed single axles on either end will run on an 072dia curve - MTH shows 031R/062D min, but not the curved Ross Turnouts, the frogs look to have too much gap for the scale wheels. Car #20-90942G However an LMS Passenger car will run on the 072 diameter curves and curved switches, although MTH calls for 042R/084D. Car #22-60052A
So in hindsight, I have to say my previous experience was more a result of my poor track laying. Getting the track right is making the difference.
Yup the age old problem, of the switch frogs, I am getting around that with closed frog switches, they used this system in the early days of 0 scale by moving the inside 3rd rail to the out side of the track and picking up power with a wiper. I have taken it one step further , by going to dead rail. Thats why my cars will be MU ed together ( wired one car to the next) to a battery in the head end car. No flickering , no overpriced ,add on electronics, and when the train is stopped at the station the lights stay on. Using KD.s or dummy scale couplers bring the cars close together and the plugs go through and are hidden by the diaphragms .
I will be back at this thread this week with some better pics and more details I am hopping this link by WITZ 41 will help with mounting trucks.
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