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I often hear or read that LionChief Plus is an entry level product. Sometimes it's referred to as mid-level. The connotation is that it's for those that aren't serious about the hobby or haven't grown up and gone to full scale size trains yet. 

I run traditional/post war size trains because I love them. I can afford Legacy or Premier locomotives and could have designed my layout with O72 curves but chose O31 and O36 because I prefer it.

I prefer LC+ to Legacy or DCS. I love the simplicity. LC+ has the basic sounds that I really enjoy. Sure, Legacy has better sound but I would need a Legacy system. LC+ gives me wireless remote control, sound and a few features that are most important to me.

I'm not dissing scale locomotives and the guys that love them. I'm just getting tired of hearing that I'm entry level. I'm 68 years old and I've been in this hobby 68 years. There's nothing entry level about me. And I don't think I'm alone. I think there are a lot of other experienced model railroaders who prefer traditional size trains. 

This is not meant to start an argument. I'm just tired of hearing and reading my choice of trains referred to as entry level.

What say you? 

 

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You are always going to get those who have an opinion about your way of doing things.  Opinions are like a certain part of the human body.  Everyone has one.  So do your thing the way you would like to.  

Over on G Scale Central there is "RULE-8".  It states that it's your railway, do it as you like.

It doesn't really bother me, Joe. I take that description as rather a type of shorthand to describe something of lesser cost and complexity, but which in no way implies lower quality.  Standards and expectations keep evolving, and looking back those "entry level" conventional units of today were often an uncomfortable stretch for most consumers of average means in the classic postwar years.  And I think we'd all agree those trains were certainly not considered entry level then!  You never know, though--maybe at some point I'll decide I've had enough of that description as well, and it will begin to irritate me.  Oh, the joys of being human...

  My roster doesn't have anything so new. My largest are a semi scale GG-1, a Berk (actually a Berk jr ) an E33 and a 2046 Hudson. And one of my favorites today is a starter loco I love to poke at for it's cheapness as delivered.  A dc RI dockside(5700?). After a bridge rectifier, weight, details, and some paint, it is loads of fun to run.... cab forward now too. 

 If it was nice from the get-go, I probably wouldn't love it so much.

   I'm always more attracted to the underdog it seems. So for me running a "starter" with a grin is a true badge of honor, not just a paper star... so what if it doubles as a target for others; it's not what I see, so I feel pity for those that can't.

   I also have a 2037(Adriatic, never actually produced in an American styled loco), DT&I switcher, and plastic motor Scout sets...a Kickapoo! (the most toyish bobber cars ever?)..( and talk about  paleing in comparison to the high end or modern, at least todays plastic motor frames wont shatter like when a plastic Scout is  dropped wrong.

BOB WALKER posted:

What we are all experiencing is a tremendous amount of innovation in train control. It would be hard to classify LionChief as an entry level product line since it's the technically most sensible way to remotely control a train.

   It is the least expensive "line" Lionel makes today makes today. Not trying to be mean here...but it IS entry level with Lionel now.

  Like it or not, it is what is is. Try to take pride in your stars, I do.

 

No big deal.  I'm into LC+ for the same reason: simplicity.  They already offered the SD60M in scale LC+.  So hopefully there will be more scale offerings.  The technology is coming on strong.  With advances in Bluetooth, you may see a day where Legacy is old news and everything is simply LC+ (or whatever they'll call it then).  Dare to dream.

I have everything from prewar to Legacy except Lion chief/Lionchief+ just could not get over ( in my thinking anyway ) that you take a great control system ( TMCC/Legacy ) and go backwards with the technology. Originally I have a system that I can run 98 engines on without having to change controllers, to I need a different controller to  operate each engine. To where now I think you can program it up to 5 or 6. It's still backwards in technology to me. I do thou see the goodness in them, for someone that wants a small layout around the Christmas tree or limited to space or for a child just learning about control for a train. And for those who like them, great for you, I hope you get all the use out of them you hoped for. I do not knock them or think of them as entry level trains. I do not see any conventional train as entry level either. I can set up my conventional trains to automatically throw the next switch in correct order from across the train table. I do not need all the electronics of today's systems  to do so.   

Last edited by rtraincollector

My roster is mainly 2 rail scale but I will always have a soft spot for Lionel 1938-41 and early postwar stuff.  I think the new LionChief stuff is great and would not consider it entry level by any means. Sure, it is easier to operate than the Legacy products so younger people can have fun with it but for folks with smaller, more traditional sized pikes, the LC engines are perfect for any skill level. The universal remote allows simultaneous three locomotive operation plus really neat sounds.  For people with the "old stand by" 4x8' layout, this is more than adequate.  Kudos to Lionel for keeping it simple AND fun!

If I was going to build a 3 rail pike again, I would definitely consider LC and I have been in this hobby for 45 years or more!

Mike

Thanks for all the responses. The term entry level has a very negative connotation to me. It's like the difference between the words plan and scheme. Scheme has a negative, underhanded connotation like Wylie Coyote scheming to capture Road Runner. I enjoy my trains and don't really care what anyone else thinks but I just get irritated when I hear that term applied to $300 diesel and $400 steam locomotives. 

I think it boils down to what you most like about trains.

For me there are several priorities.

The first always leads to a peak experience: to run my trains with my 6 year old grandaughter. The LC+ remote unit is a big hit with her. The way I,  and many of you, loved having our hands on the ZW throttle, feeling the power that we craved as little kids, is the way my grandaughter feels turning the knob and pressing the whistle button on the LC+ remote. I absolutely love to watch and make videos of my grandaughter doing this.

Another priority: ruggedness and reliability. So far so good with LC+, at least during the 1 year warranty. Lionel has been very good to me during the warranty period, correcting a couple of problems promptly, and it didn't cost me a penny. However, Postwar during the early 1950s is king when it comes to ruggedness and reliability IMO.

Fun and relaxation. Too complex an operating system makes me a little anxious. I have some features on my modern trains that I rarely use. I'm a meat and potatoes operator: run the trains, do some switching,  blow the whistle/horn, park the train on one of my 8 sidings, and move another on to the main line. I can run 2 trains independently on my layout, but rarely do. One at a time is just fine with me. Keeping things simple relaxes me, and relaxation is very important. LC+ gets an A+ from me when it comes to fun and relaxation. So does early 1950s Postwar.

Posting photos and videos of my trains and layout on this Forum. LC+ is very photogenic IMO.

Affordability: this is very important to me, actually it's a necessity. LC+ gets as A, a very good grade, but early 1950s Postwar gets an A+.

Creativity: this priority is satisfied mainly from scenery, solving problems on the layout and with the trains, rearranging things a little on the layout, and posting on the Forum. LC+ enhances my creativity together with all my other trains, the layout and the Forum.

Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari
Country Joe posted:

Thanks for all the responses. The term entry level has a very negative connotation to me. It's like the difference between the words plan and scheme. Scheme has a negative, underhanded connotation like Wylie Coyote scheming to capture Road Runner. I enjoy my trains and don't really care what anyone else thinks but I just get irritated when I hear that term applied to $300 diesel and $400 steam locomotives. 

Depends on whether you use scheme as a noun or a verb.  Used as a noun it means:

a large-scale systematic plan or arrangement for attaining some particular object or putting a particular idea into effect.

"a clever marketing scheme"

 

The way Railway Post Office clerks set up their sorting was referred to as "schemes..."

Railroad equipment have paint "schemes..."

etc...

Rusty

Joe B.,

As a model railroader for 68 years, it is obvious that you have made your decisions based on knowledge, experience, personal preferences and what is best for you. In my opinion, any criticism of someone's personal approach to model railroading is always unwarranted and unjustified. And it is patently ridiculous for anyone to describe you as an entry level model railroader. Operating a layout with LC/LC+ remote controllers is a very sensible, modern and practical way to operate your trains without the expense and problems that Legacy/DCS users often seem to encounter. If you enjoy what you're doing, that's the only thing that matters. I say this as someone who has only bought and run scale-sized O gauge trains conventionally since I re-entered the hobby twenty-one years ago.

MELGAR

You will find these discussions in just about any hobby.  In addition to trains, I also play guitar..some of them are very expensive..some not as much. But, they are all good and usable instruments.                                                                                                                                        With trains, I have a few modern ones but prefer tinkering with pre and postwar.  Enjoyment for me is found in keeping these classics running and have even upgraded old transformers.   I was a lone wolf but it's fun hanging out here and getting a different perspective on what others are doing or have done.

My advice....do what you want and enjoy what you like.     Fendermain

Last edited by Fendermain

Couple things, first to the main question, I think the entry level term is used more for regular LionChief sets and it does a pretty good job describing them.  a $100-300 complete set is pretty inexpensive, as far as O gauge goes.  additionally, these sets are basic affairs with cheaply made parts and engines not designed to be particularly robust.  They are children's toys or talking pieces for folks not really into model trains, for the most part.  

Lion Chief Plus, on the other hand is pretty much taking the quality of the tmcc semi-scale products and putting an updated and less expensive control system in it.  they are fairly good quality products rivaling the top end products of decades past.  These are not entry level, but instead take on the role of the main stable for many folks.  For me there is no difference in someone that runs LC+, Post war, or TMCC engines as far as their commitment to the hobby. 

Second thing, It upsets me that people still thing of LC/+ as a downgrade on technology.  The actual tech at the heart of legacy is the same tech used for x10 home automation in the 1970's.  LC/+ offers less features only because it was designed to be simpler.  You can already see the model shifting from the outdated system in legacy to bluetooth, the same tech as LC, and I suspect the next full command system will do away with the antiquated track signal entirely.  This entire argument is sort of like saying your new computer is worse than the one in Applo 11 because it won't get you to the moon.  It wasn't designed to.  

rtraincollector posted:

I have everything from prewar to Legacy except Lion chief/Lionchief+ just could not get over ( in my thinking anyway ) that you take a great control system ( TMCC/Legacy ) and go backwards with the technology.

Don't confuse simplicity for a lack of technological innovation. Are the  Lionchief and Lionchief Plus control systems simpler to use and less featured than  than TMCC and Legacy? Without a doubt they are. However that simplicity is made possible by technology that is newer and more advanced than those used in the TMCC and Legacy systems. (Of course, the Legacy system is taking advantage of technological advances, but it is based on older, less-advanced technology than LC/LC+.)

To the original poster, I'm not aware of people calling Lionchief Plus entry-level. It certainly isn't marketed as such by Lionel. OTH, Lionchief sets are definitely entry-level, as others have pointed out. That doesn't mean, though, that an experienced model railroader can't acquire and enjoy them.

I'm a converted post war/traditional sized train guy who was bit by the scale/hi rail bug. I don't have a view where my way is the only way to enjoy the hobby. That sounds too much like the scale guys who can't stand the third rail! There's a guy at the Syracuse NY train show who sets up a Christmas layout on two tables and runs 027 trains at break neck speed around and around all day both days and I sincerely enjoy his passion to the point where I look for him every year I go. A saying I've adopted is "No person should place their values on another person's enjoyment"! The only time I may have referred to LC+ or starter sets as 'entry level' is when someone comes into my office and wants a recommendation for getting that first train set for them or their kids. I certainly wouldn't recommend a Vision Niagara in these scenarios.

Last edited by NYC Z-MAN

Country Joe:

Just do your thing and have fun. Suggest dialing down the volume knob on any you interpret as posting "noise".

Overall, there's a very open atmosphere found here. There are PLENTY of good guys that are here to enjoy model trains with you, regardless of their philosophy of model trains. I'm HO (for now)... but I enjoy interacting with those from different modeling scales, modeling approaches, and philosophies. It's enjoyable to me to  see how  model trains are so many different things to so many different people.

Been far and wide, and OGR has the best cross section of modeling persuasions (let's see... Traditional/Hi-Rail, 3RS, 2 Rail O, On30, S, HONGZ, Tinplate, etc, etc, etc) along with the most accommodating forum philosophy within the moderators... as well as the overwhelming majority of the forumites themselves! 

Andre

DGJONES posted:

Are you really offended by someone characterizing LionChief Plus engines as "entry level"?

So that others can avoid offending someone about their trains, what would you prefer them to be called?

Don

Don, if you carefully read my original post again you will notice that I didn't say I was offended. I am not offended and no one owes me an apology but I am annoyed by the use of the inaccurate term "entry level" to describe LionChief Plus.

What I would prefer is for LC+ to be accurately described without a qualifier so that someone who is considering a purchase has the information they need to decide whether or not LC+ is a good choice for them.

BOB WALKER posted:

What we are all experiencing is a tremendous amount of innovation in train control. It would be hard to classify LionChief as an entry level product line since it's the technically most sensible way to remotely control a train.

I disagree with your thought as the most technically sensible way to control a train. To me the most technically way to control a train was either TMCC or Legacy. But they had to take that out of the equation ( for reasonable priced trains)   ( my point of view they make more profit by doing so, from Lionchief and lionchief+ ) Ever notice, to have a engine you can run in conventional, you have to go out and buy a Lionchief +. That they do not come in sets. ( or didn't, I haven't kept up with it as feel technically they took us backwards, As before I could run up to 98 different engines off of one remote. Now I think it's 5 before you have to reprogram/buy another controller to run that 6th engine you have. But for some strange reason ( or because it was forced on us ) Most jumped for joy with it. And gee all I had to do was connect one wire from the base to the U/outside rail and the two wires from the power source to the track. 

But for you and the rest who enjoy reverse technology ( and that is actually it is ) more power to you, and enjoy. I'm glad your happy with it.

If you are a post war or traditional semi- scale fan LC+  in my opinion was a very  beneficial innovation in the operating system that will serve you better and for much less money versus Legacy.  Tmcc is not even sold anymore so that is a moot point.  Legacy and vision line engines are amazing items with incredible features and functions but they just don't appeal to me as a traditional operator.  As a point of reference Just look at the remotes for each system and you will see my point...LC+ is simple, toy like, but train themed.  The legacy remote looks like something very complicated and techy at first glance.  It looks like something Mr. Spock carried on the enterprise ....no offense intended. 

bostonpete posted:

If you are a post war or traditional semi- scale fan LC+  in my opinion was a very  beneficial innovation in the operating system that will serve you better and for much less money versus Legacy.  Tmcc is not even sold anymore so that is a moot point.  Legacy and vision line engines are amazing items with incredible features and functions but they just don't appeal to me as a traditional operator.  As a point of reference Just look at the remotes for each system and you will see my point...LC+ is simple, toy like, but train themed.  The legacy remote looks like something very complicated and techy at first glance.  It looks like something Mr. Spock carried on the enterprise ....no offense intended. 

I fully agree with you, Pete. Earlier this evening I initiated a Post under 027 and O Gauge entitled "LionChief Plus: the New Postwar," pointing out the similarities between the two.

I first discovered LC+ in March of this year when I bought an LC+ Jersey Central Pacific. Before then, I never ran a train with a remote unit and the track power set at 18 volts. I am delighted with it and now have 3 LC+ engines.

Someday, I may sing the praises of Legacy and Vision Line, but I struggle with complicated technology (it makes me anxious) and I can't afford to pay $1,000 or more for a locomotive, so LC+ suits me just fine. 

Also, the last LC+ I bought, the Erie Camelback, has some very fine detail that was a very pleasant surprise. It's the bulldog of my layout at the moment. 

Two more important points. My 6 year old grandaughter enjoys running LC+ with the remote unit, and the prompt and totally free service that Lionel provided during the 1 year warranty period for one of my 3 engines has been excellent. Very nice that Lionel paid for all of the shipping cost as well as making the repairs free of charge. 

Fingers crossed for repairs after the 1 year warranty expires. I treat them with the utmost  care. Arnold

 

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I think it boils down to what you most like about trains.

For me there are several priorities.

The first always leads to a peak experience: to run my trains with my 6 year old grandaughter. The LC+ remote unit is a big hit with her. The way I,  and many of you, loved having our hands on the ZW throttle, feeling the power that we craved as little kids, is the way my grandaughter feels turning the knob and pressing the whistle button on the LC+ remote. I absolutely love to watch and make videos of my grandaughter doing this.

Another priority: ruggedness and reliability. So far so good with LC+, at least during the 1 year warranty. Lionel has been very good to me during the warranty period, correcting a couple of problems promptly, and it didn't cost me a penny. However, Postwar during the early 1950s is king when it comes to ruggedness and reliability IMO.

Fun and relaxation. Too complex an operating system makes me a little anxious. I have some features on my modern trains that I rarely use. I'm a meat and potatoes operator: run the trains, do some switching,  blow the whistle/horn, park the train on one of my 8 sidings, and move another on to the main line. I can run 2 trains independently on my layout, but rarely do. One at a time is just fine with me. Keeping things simple relaxes me, and relaxation is very important. LC+ gets an A+ from me when it comes to fun and relaxation. So does early 1950s Postwar.

Posting photos and videos of my trains and layout on this Forum. LC+ is very photogenic IMO.

Affordability: this is very important to me, actually it's a necessity. LC+ gets as A, a very good grade, but early 1950s Postwar gets an A+.

Creativity: this priority is satisfied mainly from scenery, solving problems on the layout and with the trains, rearranging things a little on the layout, and posting on the Forum. LC+ enhances my creativity together with all my other trains, the layout and the Forum.

Arnold

Nice summary, Arnold. Except for the "single train vs two train simplicity" part, where you forgot to mention the occasional forgetmenot switch is forgotten and you run a full speed consist into an occupied siding … other than that, spot on for me as well!

 

Last edited by GeoPeg

I think the Lion Chief would be considered entry level (just for having things like plastic trucks, lower detail levels, non scale size, etc.)  , but NOT Lion Chief Plus.  If you are running 036, then Lion Chief Plus to me would be almost the same as running 072 and Legacy engines.  Lion Chief Plus has great details, diecast, lots of features.  They can't be considered top of the line because the Premier Legacy engines obviously just push it over the top as far as features, scale size and details.

But I find Lion Chief plus a step above regular Postwar, so just like everything in the world there are always different levels.

I just kind of discovered Lion Chief because I kind of ignored it because I was pure Premier Legacy Engines.  But a Lion Chief set came out I thought was so cool.  Well now I am looking at all these Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus sets and engines.  I think Lionel hit it out of the park with these lines.  They are great and so incredible easy to setup and use.  

You can get 2 Lion Chief plus engines (or even 3) for the price of one Legacy engine depending which one it is.

I say get what you like.  I mean I am running my Scooby-Doo set alongside the Vision Line PRR CC2 , haha.

 

Country Joe, I agree with you. As do the facts. Ryan Kunkle at the TCA Museum presentation at YORK said that although the starter line trains get little attention, they in fact are what keeps Lionel in business. Off all the newly tooled locomotives in recent years, I have no doubt the starter set Dockside and 0-8-0 have been the best selling of the entire lot of newly tooled locomotives. Richard Kughn said the 4-4-0 Flyer set was the single best selling item in the Lionel catalog during his years.

So obviously, there WOULD NOT even be any high end  scale trains were it not for the starter, entry or traditional lines of trains, which pay the bills.

Mike Wolf just said that his colorful, lighted up Christmas cars were the best selling items in his line. Mike Wolf is a train guy too. You'd think everything in his product line would reflect accurate prototypical realism. But Mike is also a businessman, which makes him something of a bean counter too. And if colorful, lighted cars sell, he's going to seize the opportunity. And wisely so.

Millions upon millions of traditional type trains have been made over the decades. Whereas we've seen high end scale engines get cancelled because they can't even get orders for 50 of them (I heard at a LCCA presentation that 50 was the minimum number).

So obviously there are a multitude of folks out there still running these types of trains on small to midsized layouts of differing levels of detail. Most folks don't have the space or the wherewithal for large layouts with sweeping curves to handle large scale locomotives.

JohnGaltLine wrote: "additionally, these sets are basic affairs with cheaply made parts and engines not designed to be particularly robust.  They are children's toys or talking pieces for folks not really into model trains, for the most part."

Now for one thing, in almost 30 years I have never had one single defect or DOA. My very first Lionel 4-4-2 is still running after all these years, albeit with a replaced smoke unit... after 30 years, to be expected. I have MPC locomotive over 50 years old with plastic gears that still run exceptionally well. Needless to say, I do take care of them with regular maintenance. And I'm really into model trains: I repaint, scratch build, kit bash and add details, albeit on a suggestive versus a scale level.

And how about MARX Trains? For inexpensive trains, those tin ones have an amazing attention to accurate detail in the lithography. Not even to mention their durability. Yeah, they may have been toys, but they were certainly well made for what they are.

BUT we've seen an abundance of threads about high end products that didn't work out of the box, or failed within a year, or had detail parts break off, and replacements parts ARE NOT available. Are they superb nice models? YES. Are they worth the aggravation? To me, NO. But your mileage with vary. My trains do everything the feature loaded high end trains do, BUT in my imagination.

And probably most people buying LionChief Plus engines are not worried about being able to run 98 engines off one remote. I had a very large dealer who supports this forum tell me that in their experience, LionChief and LionChief Plus are the biggest innovations in decades. They allow more people to experience a level of remote control, versus the higher end models of which fewer people buy, but those fewer people are buying more, which is what keeps the scale end of the hobby going.

If I was really into scale, I would have gone with HO or N scales years ago. I don't have space for a large layout, but you can still do HO or N in a smaller space, which is why those 2 scales have the majority of the model train marketplace.

 

Last edited by brianel_k-lineguy

For anyone considering LC+, who wants to avoid the entry level designation, get 3 LC+ engines and the LionChief Universal Remote. Doing so enables one operator to run 3 LC+ engines at the same time using that 1 universal remote unit.

Nothing entry level about that, IMO. I now have 3 LC+ engines and a Universal Remote, and don't yet have the confidence to run the 3 engines using the universal remote. When my 6 year old granddaughter comes over next time, she will have the confidence to do it.

LOL, Arnold 

PS, the directions say you can also have multiple universal remotes in action to run even more trains simultaneously.

Dan Padova posted:

You are always going to get those who have an opinion about your way of doing things.  Opinions are like a certain part of the human body.  Everyone has one.  So do your thing the way you would like to.  

Over on G Scale Central there is "RULE-8".  It states that it's your railway, do it as you like.

Until now, I had no idea what rules layout my operated under? But, now I do, it's 'RULE 8'!   

That is a good one too. There's also a little 'Grandson Rules' thrown in here and there as well. 

rtraincollector posted:
BOB WALKER posted:

What we are all experiencing is a tremendous amount of innovation in train control. It would be hard to classify LionChief as an entry level product line since it's the technically most sensible way to remotely control a train.

I disagree with your thought as the most technically sensible way to control a train. To me the most technically way to control a train was either TMCC or Legacy. But they had to take that out of the equation ( for reasonable priced trains)   ( my point of view they make more profit by doing so, from Lionchief and lionchief+ ) Ever notice, to have a engine you can run in conventional, you have to go out and buy a Lionchief +. That they do not come in sets. ( or didn't, I haven't kept up with it as feel technically they took us backwards, As before I could run up to 98 different engines off of one remote. Now I think it's 5 before you have to reprogram/buy another controller to run that 6th engine you have. But for some strange reason ( or because it was forced on us ) Most jumped for joy with it. And gee all I had to do was connect one wire from the base to the U/outside rail and the two wires from the power source to the track. 

But for you and the rest who enjoy reverse technology ( and that is actually it is ) more power to you, and enjoy. I'm glad your happy with it.

TLDR version: Saying LC/+ is worse tech than TMCC is like saying a Lamborghini Huracán is inferior to a golf cart because the person driving the Lambo decided to drive it at 1MPH after taking the wheels off.  

 

While I've gone into this on many other posts we can rehash it here again.  While TMCC and Legacy allow you to do more things than LC/+ that is not the fault of the underlying technology.  TMCC and Legacy both use the same method to exchange information between trains and the control system; a 455KHz radio signal propagated through the air from your house's wiring.  This was an amazing technology when it was introduced to the public as the x10 system for home automation back in the 1970's allowing wireless control of lamps and security alarms, however it has many drawbacks the have been eliminated by modern digital radio systems.  Lionchief/+ in it's current form uses what's known as BLE, or BlueTooth-Low-Energy.  This is a two-way digital signal on the 2.4GHz band.  Bluetooth is a proprietary system designed to allow two devices to stare real-time data, most often used to stream audio for wireless headsets and speakers.  it uses very good error correction and is very easy to implement with off the shelf parts which makes it ideal for things like LC/+ engines.  The connection between the Legacy remote and the Legacy base works in a similar fashion, however with a simpler data protocol with out all the benefits of a well designed protocol like Bluetooth.  The underlying tech of this is the 2.4GHz digital signal which is the same thing Wifi is built on as well.  It's hard to say that wifi, providing the entirety of the internet to your computer, is a downgrade from TMCC. Bluetooth is actually a more complex system than Wifi.  

The reason TMCC can do more is simply that the implementation was designed to do more.  Remember that everything you can do on that Legacy remote is happening through an older, less advanced 2.4GHz standard than even the most basic LionChief engine uses.  The design for LC was a simple remote with a couple functions so it was east to use, but that doesn't change that the actual technology is far, far, more advanced than what is used in any other system.  

All of TMCC's abilities comes down to being able to send a one way transmission of a number from 0 to 65536, that's 16 on/off switches. 16 bits of data.  Legacy adds about twice as many bits of data to the mix, plus a couple special cases where they future-proofed the system to allow larger transmissions of data.  In general, however, legacy sends 2 to 4 bytes of data for a command.  In computer talk, 1 letter typed on the screen is 1 byte of data, so all that amazing stuff TMCC does is really just 2 letters, while legacy is 3 or 4... and it is one way communication.  The engines cant report back to the system.  LC/+ on the other hand, sends 32 bytes of information at a time, checks to see if there are any errors, and can talk back to the controller if it wants to.  it is a vastly more powerful system...and the same one all modern wireless communication is built on.  

Sorry for the mild rant, but it bugs me when folks confuse implementation with ability.

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