ERR Upgrades or MTH?

Get a hold of Boxcar Bill on the forum here and here is his website http://www.mttponline.com/home2

Least expensive will be non cruise TMCC with Railsounds 4. Then MTH PS2. TMCC with cruise will be slightly more than PS2. If you have more than a couple of engines to do and join the MTH club you will save even more on DCS. You will need flywheels to do DCS. TMCC with or w/o cruise will work on motors without flywheels but not as smoothly as flywheel equipped motors.

Pete

Do you plan to do the conversions yourself?

If not, you might want to sit back and look at this again from a cost perspective including labor. You could easily end up with more into this than selling your current locomotives and replacing them with command versions. You can always find good deals here on the Forum that may end up saving you a LOT of time and $$$

ERR at least you wont blow the boards up..

Like Sam says, consider the costs and make a judgment.  I convert stuff for the fun of it, or because the conversion target is not available in command.  If you have something unusual that's hard to find, that's also a candidate.  For common locomotives, you may be better following the advice to sell and buy a command version.

For my money, if you are going to convert to TMCC, use a Cruise Commander from Electric Railroad. The DC commander is somewhat cheaper, but the pleasure of running with cruise control over the long run far outweighs the lower initial cost. The labor to convert is the same, with or without cruise.

I just installed 7 DC commanders in my Williams diesels.  I didn't by the cruise commander because I don't plan on running more then one train on each of my loops and if I do I will go with relays.  Remember the electric couplers run $10.00 each and you should buy 2 for each upgrade.  The DCS kit comes with the couplers.  ERR Commanders are easy to install over DCS.  The switches they supply were not the best but they work. I kept the True Blast II for now but to activate the sounds I do it from the transformer.  If anyone knows if they can be activated through the command board, please let me know how to do this.  With a limited budget I can always add RS4 in the future.  Most of my steam are DCS and I upgraded several PS1 engines to PS2 but they took extra time to install, boards have to be handled with great care, and several adjustments were required but you do get everything you need for the upgrade for less money.

 I will be doing the installs. I've done a bunch a few years back. Just looking at the cost for the cheapest.

  I know MTH has had supply issues in the past. Not sure if that is still a problem.

  I remember the price of an upgrade kit for $175. Do not know what they are now.

 Just need  basic reverse, steam sound and TMCC? Al

If you are doing several DCS upgrades then join the MTH club for $25 and I believe they are discounted to $149.95.  How fast you get them is hit and miss depending on there stock and demand.  With the kit it still is the cheaper then TMCC for sound and command. With 2 electric couplers, DC Command, and RS4 from ERR you price out at a minimum $189.  I wish ERR would come out with a cheaper sound system (the basic 4 revs, bell and whistle) like they had a few years ago and could no longer get components to make them.  They were around $59.00.  Williams has a new sound board but they are not selling them separately at this time and I have not heard the sound.  

Joe, Good point about the DCS kit including couplers. It would still be problematic to install on older engines that don't have flywheels. As for the new Williams True Blast Plus, the included sounds are good but at this time they don't have one for steam and I am not sure you could use it in a command environment.

Pete

The AC or DC Commander (but sadly not the Cruise Commander) include a logic signal on the RailSounds connector that is active whenever you are blowing the horn from the remote.  With a little circuitry, you can turn that into a trigger for the TrueBlast horn.

As far as getting the PS/2 upgrades from MTH, I've been waiting several months, and still no ship date in sight.  They are only $149.95 through the MTH RR Club, but it's like pulling teeth to get them.

John,

I did notice they give instructions for the older Lionel whistles so I thought true blast could be attached.  The questions is how?  A little bit of circuitry isn't a problem but the concern is if not correctly done I don't want to destroy the command board.  I am not as  concerned with the True Blast.

I'll tell you the easy way.

Connect a relay to the logic output, I'd use a Spartan 9000 with a 10ma 5V coil.  Then, you can drive the horn directly from track power with  a diode string, exactly like you'd make a horn button for conventional use.  Five diodes in one direction, and a single diode in the opposite direction on one of the leads.  When the relay provides power, it triggers the Williams horn.  No risk to the TMCC module, assuming you can wire the two coil leads correctly, nothing else is logically connected to the unit.

Spartan 9000 Relay with 5V Coil

Thanks John!  I will pick up the parts and put it together.

 I suppose a DC Commander from ERR would fit my needs on the Williams Niagara, correct? I think I would still need sound. Al

The Niagara is a full sized locomotive, right?  I'd use the ERR Cruise Commander, I think you'll be happier with the result.  You'll also need the Rail Sounds Commander if you want sound.

Note that I've recently found out that the Cruise Commander does not output the signal we're talking about for triggering conventional whistles from TMCC, so the full RailSounds setup would be required for sound.

I've done two ERR installs so far.  I was little intimidated by the first one, mostly because of the issue with static electricity. I work with computers, by trade, and you have to be vary careful WRT static. Take the precautions i mentioned in the installation doc and you'll be ok.  The second install was easier. After two, I feel pretty comfortable installing the boards. Both installs were steam engines. I've got parts on order to do a diesel next.