Ford Motor Co. in talks to buy Michigan Central Depot • SOLD • VIDEO • MEET BILL FORD / Historic Clock is Returned

superwarp1 posted:
Allegheny posted:
trainroomgary posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Question, where is it stated anywhere Ford wants the building?  Maybe they just want the land?

Hi superwarp1

Ford Motor is going to refurbish the station, I would send you more information, but I am on my iPhone. There is a large power outage on my side of town.

Dear Trainroomgary,

The large power outage on your side of town is being caused by all of those transformers you have turned on to run your layout!  Please turn them off so some of us little guys can have some fun as well! 

I'm still waiting on Ford's announcement on this.  Why I think it's great.  I don't understand why Ford would spend what some estimates have stated a cool 300-400 million to restore this building.   Why?

Deductions for 2018 1040 Income Tax Forms!

The TEXAS SPECIAL:  The REAL RED streak of the golden prairies!

superwarp1 posted:
Allegheny posted:
trainroomgary posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Question, where is it stated anywhere Ford wants the building?  Maybe they just want the land?

Hi superwarp1

Ford Motor is going to refurbish the station, I would send you more information, but I am on my iPhone. There is a large power outage on my side of town.

Dear Trainroomgary,

The large power outage on your side of town is being caused by all of those transformers you have turned on to run your layout!  Please turn them off so some of us little guys can have some fun as well! 

I'm still waiting on Ford's announcement on this.  Why I think it's great.  I don't understand why Ford would spend what some estimates have stated a cool 300-400 million to restore this building.   Why?

Businesses make decisions for a lot of reasons, and the idea that businesses only make decisions based on immediate profit and "shareholder value" (as much of a driving force that is, both for the good and bad and aweful) is one of those things that isn't true. I can't answer for Ford, but remember that Ford didn't just do this on some whim, I guarantee this went through exploratory committees, and it went in front of their full board of directors, and they had to make a case for it, it is why boards exist....in any event, why?

-Detroit has been showing signs of coming back to life, they are starting to see both the arts community come into the city, along with other elements that are harbingers of life coming back. Among other things, that generally means young, creative people might be willing to live in such a place, people Ford would need for what they supposedly are planning to do here. Things like clubs and restaurants and arts venues and all kinds of things, if it is happening in Detroit, could make it a great place to locate a venture like this.

-That building could serve pretty nicely as a place to attract start ups, it is an interesting building, it isn't exactly a suburban office park. I worked for a startup in a loft in Chelsea in NYC, it was a lot more fun working there (this was 2007- 2009) and I am an old fart, not that young, it was fun to be in a building like that. Among other things, a venture like Ford is planning is going to require other companies to develop things, if you are working on self driving cars, electric vehicles, it would be advantageous to have in the same building a company that could develop a prototype for a sensing system or a system to handle bad weather driving. 

-With their tech in there as an anchor tenant, related to the prior thing I wrote, it could attract other kinds of out there tenants there, not necessarily in the auto industry, and eventually could end up filling the building with paying tenants, too. 

-Some of it could be a form of corporate guilt/responsibility, the auto industry, fairly or unfairly, has taken a lot of shots for their role in the death of Detroit, and while I am sure it isn't the prime reason they are doing this, I am kind of certain from a PR standpoint this can help dispel the idea that Ford is only a cold corporate entity out for itself (and it would be in line with what Ford tried to do in the past, Ford I believe put up the Renaissance center in downtown Detroit in an attempt years ago to help revitalize downtown).  There are likely people at Ford who are from the area and want to see Detroit come back, too. 

-It likely won't cost them that total amount, I would be that they will be eligible for tax breaks and deductions and credits for building in a depressed area that will help offset that cost. They also likely got the building fairly cheaply, given the amount of work required and that the city was going to tear it down. 200 or 300 million sounds like a lot, but a new skyscraper without the interest this building would have can easily cost that, my company paid for the construction of a build around the turn of the 21st century in Times Square probably the same size as this building, and it cost then like 500 million. New office buildings of that scope don't come cheaply. 

Again, just speculation, but business decisions are made around a lot of factors, and I would bet that some of it is based in the hope/idea that Detroit seems to be coming back from the ashes and from what I have heard it is starting already to attract young, creative people who may be attracted to a city redoing itself and isn't yet totally gentrified, sanitized and overtly expensive, and Ford may be banking on that with the other things. New ventures like Ford is planning, R and D, speculative ventures generally are a different mindset then if it is a firm of accountants or tax lawyers, and they need people that fit that. 

 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I just read that the NE Journal of Medicine did a redaction on the study of the Mediterranean Diet because of sampling errors.  And the English Doctor who found this error have found others....

What does this have to do with this thread?  Earlier, some posts indicated a study said X.  I am not flaming anybody.  But it is getting to the point one cannot trust any study, or for that matter, poll.

Rich is right, journalism is dead.  Is scholarship next?

Nope, the reason this study came into question was because science at its core never assumes anything is totally settled, and studies published in journals may have gone through a vetting process, but then other scientists look at the method and results and analyze them, and it is how this came to light. Other researchers have gone back over the data, and re analyzed it taking into account the errors ( which had to do with some subjects not being truly random, not a bad conclusion) and are on board w the results;others remain skeptical which is good because that is how science works. I also will add that this isnt the only study done by genuine researchers on this diet, there are a lot of studies that indicate the same thing.  There are also a ton of studies indicating that diets based in fruits and vegetables and limited in saturated fats and moderate total fat intake are healthier than what a lot of people are eating. 

That doesnt mean all studies are equal or that knowledge doesnt advance. Those 'clinical' trials of things that supposedly show a miracle pill will cause you to lose weight are not peer reviewed and usually involve like 20 people, often not chosen at random and not vetted for other factors,too few people and not enough controls and no review. Then too studies can lead to wrong conclusions. Studies showed that the hdl/ldl ratio w cholesterol was a major indicator of heart health. They also knew from studies that taking niacin makes the ratio improve...so doctors assumed taking niacin would reduce heart disease and started prescribing it...but when they looked at people who took niacin versus those that didnt in controlled studies, there was no difference in heart disease rates between the two groups....same w folic acid.

The emf studies around powerlines were done over a number of years and the results consistently have backed up what other studies have said, that no health issues could be tied to power transmission lines. That is another hallmark of science over quackery, it insists results be replicated, and it is why studies are either confirmed or revoked.

I will take that over someone tweeting 'truth' or someone when you talk about the poor diet most people are eating,says 'my grandpa lived to be 90 and he smoked 2 packs of luckies a day and ate meat and potatoes 3 meals a day' *shrug*

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

Dominic Mazoch posted:

.....and what happens in about 30 or so years when the building will be amortized and needs a redo. Will the Blue Oval stay, or wil they move out?  Detroit 2.0.

Who knows? 40 years ago the claim was nyc was dead,how everyone was moving out, that places like tampa and phoenix and vegas were the future. Today once bombed out areas are rapidly gentrifying, crime is lower than almost any other city in the US, and instead of being detroit the population has increased by a million, and packimg crate sized apartments go for a mint...and some of those future cities today still are reeling ftom the real estate bubble and are not quite the super cities they were supposed to become.

In 30 years could be Detroit is thriving and Ford keeps it or sells it at a profit. Detroit 2.0 might be NYC 2.0, not tampa or las vegas 2.0.

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

I have seen too many building boom/bust cycles.  Once the rose is off and people get over the newness........

Plus, why do one need an art scene to attract workers.  I would be more concerned about low cost of living, low taxes, and good infrastructure.

Is this one of the cases of putting the caboose before the horse.

The TEXAS SPECIAL:  The REAL RED streak of the golden prairies!

trainroomgary posted:

1 June 15 MI Depot

To see all 15 photos: Click here 

If you have photos or stories about the Michigan Central Depot, please post on this thread. Like to hear from you.

Gary: Rail-fan

One thing for sure, that picture sure ain't of the Green Diamond in Detroit, (unless there was catenary at the MC depot) it's Chicago.

scan0003

Rusty

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The acquisition of the MCD would have had to been orchestrated by Ford Land Development.   This is the branch of the company that handles all land related acquisitions and development.   Secondly, the "Family" would have been involved heavily in making this a Go or No Go deal.  You can bet that they have a definitive long term plan in mind that will be profitable to them. 

Anyone thinking that the firm has any integrity or moral obligation to the City of Detroit due to Ford's involvement in aiding its decline needs to seek out professional help.   Dollars are the only thing this family / firm understands and lives by - Period. 

The continuation of the "Families" legacy is extremely important to them.  The only reason their family is even on the map is due to their Great Grandfathers achievements.    Otherwise, they'd be like the rest of us slogging away trying to earn a living.  What has any of one of them really done to help the firm in development of new products using their brains?   Look at their history since Hank the Deuces demise.   They have struggled to keep afloat often making horrible product development decisions i.e.  developing the Probe to replace the Mustang, elevating  J. Nassar to President, replacing the Ford Oval with the Script,  not incorporating Ford European designs into the product line-up that at the time were considered innovative, etc.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say.  In terms of being good money and business managers I'll give them some credit a C.  But in terms of individual contribution to direct new product development - Zero.  One of their current board members - essentially flunked out at the age of 42 yrs.   He had several golden opportunities handed to him and failed each time.   He never started at bottom and worked his way up.  Instead he started near the top and then fell off.

It will be interesting to see what the long term goal of acquiring the MCD is.   Hopefully, they don't abandon the project midway should the expected head of steam doesn't materialize in the time frame they'd like.  The Cities full recovery will take time and sums of money needed to revitalize the building - staggering.

 

Kazar

C&O H8 Allegheny: The heaviest & most powerful bad boy to ever traverse any rail.

Rusty Traque posted:

One thing for sure, that picture sure ain't of the Green Diamond in Detroit, (unless there was catenary at the MC depot) it's Chicago.

Rusty

Hi Rusty:

1 Green Diamond OGR MI Depot

The Detroit Free Press writes that this photo was furnished by: Winton Engine division of General Motors, Detroit Free Press Achieve.  I would have to agree, the back ground in this photo is not from the Michigan Central Depot.

What is the source of your photo. I would like to share this information with the reporter for the Detroit Free Press, via e-mail.

Thanks: Gary

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trainroomgary posted:

Hi Rusty:

 

 

What is the source of your photo. I would like to share this information with the reporter for the Detroit Free Press, via e-mail.

Thanks: Gary

Illinois Central railroad, I guess. 

All I can tell you is my photo is a glass slide I discovered in an ancient slide projector at an AV rental place I worked at in the early 1970's.  It was chock full of glass slides of IC equipment and facilities.  They were all labeled G. MacGregor Studios, Stony Island Ave., Chicago.  I took the few that had trains, a guy I worked with took the rolling stock pictures and we left the facilities pictures (silly us.)

Rusty

Dominic Mazoch posted:

I have seen too many building boom/bust cycles.  Once the rose is off and people get over the newness........

Plus, why do one need an art scene to attract workers.  I would be more concerned about low cost of living, low taxes, and good infrastructure.

Is this one of the cases of putting the caboose before the horse.

Boom/bust cycles tend to happen because of poor policy decisions and bubble economies based on those poor policies (for example, the housing 'boom' in places like Las Vegas and Tampa based in idiotic lending and the 'flip' mentality that outran any kind of jobs to support those prices).

As far as putting the caboose before the horse, sometimes you need to do that, doing things that seem out there to jumpstart something. For example, if Ford's vision is they want Detroit to become a high tech hub that benefits themselves and others *hypothetically*), it can take risks to get it going. I can only speculate on Ford's motives or strategy for doing this project, but something like this could be a prime the pump kind of thing. 

As far as where a company locates, that depends a lot on what they are planning to do and who they need to do it, as well as factors like availability of space, cost of space, taxes and of course infrastructure. It is very different if you are planning to put up a factory to manufacture widgets then it is some sort of start up in high tech. A widget factory might look at a location because it has low taxes, easy access to shipping, low cost electrical power, a low cost of living or a place where there is a relatively large employment pool of people.

High tech companies operate differently. They tend to locate in areas that have close proximity to research universities and other pools of talent and research, and they are looking for people with the kind of skill sets they need, which generally tends to be well educated and also trends younger.  Generally when you have an arts scene (and that isn't just art galleries and the like, it is music, visual arts, etc) it also spawns other things, like nightlife, cafes and restaurants. It is why more than a few attempts to establish high tech corridors in more rural or exurban areas have failed, because of what potential employees want from the area they live in.

A factory manufacturing widgets on the other hand will generally have people who might be looking for things like good schools, a house with a bit of property and the like, because they have families and have different needs...and this would/could include both line workers and the managers and engineers, needs change as you get older and want to settle down .  

One thing I do know, bold moves are generally required to create change, and those waiting let's say for Detroit to gentrify and become "safe", could very well be on the tail end of things *shrug*. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

bigkid posted:
superwarp1 posted:
Allegheny posted:
trainroomgary posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Question, where is it stated anywhere Ford wants the building?  Maybe they just want the land?

Hi superwarp1

Ford Motor is going to refurbish the station, I would send you more information, but I am on my iPhone. There is a large power outage on my side of town.

Dear Trainroomgary,

The large power outage on your side of town is being caused by all of those transformers you have turned on to run your layout!  Please turn them off so some of us little guys can have some fun as well! 

I'm still waiting on Ford's announcement on this.  Why I think it's great.  I don't understand why Ford would spend what some estimates have stated a cool 300-400 million to restore this building.   Why?

Businesses make decisions for a lot of reasons, and the idea that businesses only make decisions based on immediate profit and "shareholder value" (as much of a driving force that is, both for the good and bad and aweful) is one of those things that isn't true. I can't answer for Ford, but remember that Ford didn't just do this on some whim, I guarantee this went through exploratory committees, and it went in front of their full board of directors, and they had to make a case for it, it is why boards exist....in any event, why?

-Detroit has been showing signs of coming back to life, they are starting to see both the arts community come into the city, along with other elements that are harbingers of life coming back. Among other things, that generally means young, creative people might be willing to live in such a place, people Ford would need for what they supposedly are planning to do here. Things like clubs and restaurants and arts venues and all kinds of things, if it is happening in Detroit, could make it a great place to locate a venture like this.

-That building could serve pretty nicely as a place to attract start ups, it is an interesting building, it isn't exactly a suburban office park. I worked for a startup in a loft in Chelsea in NYC, it was a lot more fun working there (this was 2007- 2009) and I am an old fart, not that young, it was fun to be in a building like that. Among other things, a venture like Ford is planning is going to require other companies to develop things, if you are working on self driving cars, electric vehicles, it would be advantageous to have in the same building a company that could develop a prototype for a sensing system or a system to handle bad weather driving. 

-With their tech in there as an anchor tenant, related to the prior thing I wrote, it could attract other kinds of out there tenants there, not necessarily in the auto industry, and eventually could end up filling the building with paying tenants, too. 

-Some of it could be a form of corporate guilt/responsibility, the auto industry, fairly or unfairly, has taken a lot of shots for their role in the death of Detroit, and while I am sure it isn't the prime reason they are doing this, I am kind of certain from a PR standpoint this can help dispel the idea that Ford is only a cold corporate entity out for itself (and it would be in line with what Ford tried to do in the past, Ford I believe put up the Renaissance center in downtown Detroit in an attempt years ago to help revitalize downtown).  There are likely people at Ford who are from the area and want to see Detroit come back, too. 

-It likely won't cost them that total amount, I would be that they will be eligible for tax breaks and deductions and credits for building in a depressed area that will help offset that cost. They also likely got the building fairly cheaply, given the amount of work required and that the city was going to tear it down. 200 or 300 million sounds like a lot, but a new skyscraper without the interest this building would have can easily cost that, my company paid for the construction of a build around the turn of the 21st century in Times Square probably the same size as this building, and it cost then like 500 million. New office buildings of that scope don't come cheaply. 

Again, just speculation, but business decisions are made around a lot of factors, and I would bet that some of it is based in the hope/idea that Detroit seems to be coming back from the ashes and from what I have heard it is starting already to attract young, creative people who may be attracted to a city redoing itself and isn't yet totally gentrified, sanitized and overtly expensive, and Ford may be banking on that with the other things. New ventures like Ford is planning, R and D, speculative ventures generally are a different mindset then if it is a firm of accountants or tax lawyers, and they need people that fit that. 

 

One important fact about Ford is that the Ford family controls the voting stock.  Dividends from Ford are an important source of income for them.  So they don't have to worry about how the market responds in the short term, i.e. one or two years.  Their "shareholder value" is in a ten to 20 year context.

Also, although its current profits aren't great, it has a very strong cash position and the dividend is very well covered by free cash flow.

Meet Bill Ford • The Company’s Vision for Michigan Central Depot



Source: Detroit Free Press / Sunday June 17, 2018

I am pleased that Ford Motor has purchase the Michigan Central Station and Bill Ford’s Mission Statement, and the companies objectives for the Station, Corktown, and for the future of the automotive industry.

Gary: Rail-fan

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Videos (3)
Part One • Meet Bill Ford Michigan Central Depot
Part Two • Bill Ford Michigan Central Depart
Part Two • Bill Ford Michigan Central Depart

These's a nice story about Ford purchasing the train station in today's Sunday New York Times, first page in the Business Section. Bill Ford, interviewed for the story, recalls going to the station as a boy for family trips to California. The station is in an area of Detroit called Corktown, settled by Irish immigrants. Ford notes that his relatives came to Detroit from County Cork in Ireland in the 19th century. Interesting connection.

This building can still have great value for Detroit. I can only believe that this is a positive thing.

I don't think Ford (the company, and by definition, the family) is perfect by any stretch, but please remember that it wasn't that long ago that the company made the hugely gutsy decision to mortgage itself to the hilt, in a very uncertain business environment, to the tune of some 29 billion dollars, in order to survive the recession.

They're still here, and still relevant, as this thread shows.

Jeff C

 

Not going to say Ford is perfect, they have made their mistakes as most of the Detroit auto industry did, at times  they have been at the head of the pack, others falling behind. As far as the ablity of the Ford family, Edsel Ford was probably the most talented of the scions and descendants of Henry, he was the one responsible for the MKI lincoln (helped design it), and also helped wrest power away from the old man to allow Ford to modernize, and it was Edsall who was primarily responsible for Ford's transformation into a war time supplier, including the Rouge plant that produced bombers for the air force among other things. Henry the II was responsible for a lot of more than stupid decisions, including the Edsel, as well as charming things like the Mustang II and the Pinto,happened under his watch.......Ford also still to this day makes some of the higher quality cars among the US big three, and that was because they in the 80's and 90's totally reworked how they make cars. Not to mention they were the only of the big three who didn't need to be bailed out by the government in 2008..so not necessarily bad management. 

Bill Ford's problem is that he isn't a numbers guy, in many ways his problem is he is too much the dreamer IMO. At a time when the US auto industry was/is basically doubling down on Trucks and SUV's, he made a big push for hybrid technology and improving fuel mileage,which unfortunately wasn't what the public wanted in a time when gas prices are still ridiculously low compared to the past, everyone wants the SUV and pickup trucks. I suspect the vision for this building was him as well, and it isn't the first generation, for all his faults Henry II tried to do what he could to revitalize Detroit, the Renaissance project was his baby for example. 

I hope this works out for them, a neat building was saved, and I hope it does help revitalize Detroit. Ford alone was not responsible for the decline in Detroit, that was shared equally with the big 3 and also with a number of other factors both political and social, which doesn't really have a place in this thread (at least talking about Ford and its history has context to the train station). I don't think this was strictly a numbers thing, I doubt that, if this was just the beancounters there is no way Ford would have taken the risk, I think this was in part seeing a possible opportunity to revitalize Detroit, to put a 'good face' on Ford, and also potentially create something unique with the station that helps Ford (new products, in a kind of 'skunkworks' in the city and away from corporate Ford) as well as maybe serving as the hub for similar kinds of startups and ventures. Will they ever recoup the many hundreds of millions they will sink into this? Hard to say, they could if Detroit comes back, office space that 30 years ago was going for 20 bucks a square foot in lower Manhattan is now 4 or 5 times that today....not to mention in the end even if it never generates much return, it definitely has left something special behind. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

bigkid posted:

 Not to mention they were the only of the big three who didn't need to be bailed out by the government in 2008..so not necessarily bad management. 

IIRC the reason Ford didn't take the bailout was the Ford family owns special Class B shares which make up about 6% or so of the company total stock yet have 40% of the voting rights and that would have been lost. There was a financial article some time ago talking about how the current generation of cousins were pooling their funds to buy any Class B shares others sold to maintain their control of the company. Believe Comcast has the same stock/voting rights situation. Ford sold Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, etc for pennies on the dollar to raise money rather than lose control. It is a nice civic move though we will have to see if it turns out to be a good move financially for the other stockholders.

J Daddy posted:

Actually stealing the clock saved it. Otherwise it may have been taken to the scrap heap

Exactly what I was thinking. Probably not a thief, but someone just trying to preserve history. Especially with the details on handling the old piece.

 

Originally posted by Bigkid:

Bill Ford's problem is that he isn't a numbers guy, in many ways his problem is he is too much the dreamer IMO.
At a time when the US auto industry was/is basically doubling down on Trucks and SUV's, he made a big push for
hybrid technology and improving fuel mileage,which unfortunately wasn't what the public wanted in a time when
gas prices are still ridiculously low compared to the past, everyone wants the SUV and pickup trucks.
I suspect the vision for this building was him as well, and it isn't the first generation, for all his faults
Henry II tried to do what he could to revitalize Detroit, the Renaissance project was his baby for example.

I am sorry but I will have to Disagree with you. If ford didn't invest in hybrid Tech, when the gas crunch hit from 2008-2010 ford would have been under just like the other two. also with the recent ford announcement of cancelling production of cars to almost an all SUV lineup, this hybrid Tech/ improving fuel mileage will allow them to do this while still holding to the C.A.F.E. rules.

Like GM didn't take a Big hit by selling Toyota back in 2003 the GM Hybrid technology for a mere 5 million bucks! NAH We Don't need no Stinkin' Hybrid cars!!!! Lets make more gas guzzling trucks cause they sell! Another 1978 Gas Crisis isn't coming!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK62tfoCmuQ

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

 

Originally posted by Bigkid:

Bill Ford's problem is that he isn't a numbers guy, in many ways his problem is he is too much the dreamer IMO.
At a time when the US auto industry was/is basically doubling down on Trucks and SUV's, he made a big push for
hybrid technology and improving fuel mileage,which unfortunately wasn't what the public wanted in a time when
gas prices are still ridiculously low compared to the past, everyone wants the SUV and pickup trucks.
I suspect the vision for this building was him as well, and it isn't the first generation, for all his faults
Henry II tried to do what he could to revitalize Detroit, the Renaissance project was his baby for example.

I am sorry but I will have to Disagree with you. If ford didn't invest in hybrid Tech, when the gas crunch hit from 2008-2010 ford would have been under just like the other two. also with the recent ford announcement of cancelling production of cars to almost an all SUV lineup, this hybrid Tech/ improving fuel mileage will allow them to do this while still holding to the C.A.F.E. rules.

Like GM didn't take a Big hit by selling Toyota back in 2003 the GM Hybrid technology for a mere 5 million bucks! NAH We Don't need no Stinkin' Hybrid cars!!!! Lets make more gas guzzling trucks cause they sell! Another 1978 Gas Crisis isn't coming!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK62tfoCmuQ

Not sure what you are talking about with toyota hybrids, they developed the synergy drive they still use in the 1990s and introduced the prius in 1997, and they license the technology to other makers,so they would have no reason to buy any gm tech...not to mention gm makes hybrids like the volt plug in and hybrid versions of trucks and cars.

The problem with cafe is they look at the fuel mileage of cars sold. Unless Ford goes all hybrid, they may have problems selling hybrids because of the premium charged for it. Potentially they could do that and eat the cost difference, without having to subsidize sedans and such (suvs and trucks have huge profit margins), the cost of the hybrid may be offset by the losses on sedans they will no longer have (the mustang has high margins too from what i know,bc people tend to buy the pimped out ones w large margins). Not sure they can meet cafe with standard suvs and trucks w the current ratio of hybrid to non hybrid, non hybrids sell at a pretty large multiplier to hybrids,something like 5 to 1.

On the other hand they may be ok, the epa is talking about rolling back cafe or even getting rid of it,and congress may grant that.

When i said bill ford was a dreamer it was because he championed things like hybrid technology and put serious effort into fuel cell and ev research long before 2008.

 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

Nice someone attempted to save the clock, if they had left it there by now it would be missing. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, in 10 years it will be interesting to see if this paid off, or if like more than a few such projects, turned into a white elephant. 

 

As far as the cost of cars/why the manufacturers are leaning on trucks, if anyone is interested ping me on my email on my profile. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

Borden Tunnel posted:
Dominic Mazoch posted:

How about using a concept from Henry Ford and price cars and trucks so Americians can afford them?

What does the price of vehicles have to do with the subject of this thread?

Cause the price of toy trains Americans cannot afford as well?

TCA Number 16-71884

J Daddy posted:
Borden Tunnel posted:
Dominic Mazoch posted:

How about using a concept from Henry Ford and price cars and trucks so Americians can afford them?

What does the price of vehicles have to do with the subject of this thread?

Cause the price of toy trains Americans cannot afford as well?

Last time I looked, Ford wasn't making toy trains and neither Lionel or MTH are buying the depot.

Rusty

If the implication is buying this building is why Ford's cars and trucks are so expensive, forget that idea. First of all, when it comes to cars and trucks (especially trucks and SUVs) they are expensive across the board. Secondly, Ford likely is not using cash to buy the building or restore it, they are likely going to use debt financing, potentially doing so using some sort of tax favored bond (municipal, state, some sort of state authority)  which has much lower interest rate on them (and obviously, given Detroit's precarious shape, I doubt they would be Detroit bonds, more than likely state or some sort of regional authority, if at all). When they built new stadiums here in NYC the team owners paid for them, but they were allowed to finance a significant portion using city/state bonding authority, which gave them a much lower rate and also allowed bondholders to get them with tax favored interest , depending on the bond and where the person buying it lives.  So that price tag isn't going to affect the price of a car or truck much, put it this way, whether Ford did this or not, the price would stay right where it is or go up *shrug*. 

 

 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

OK guys....this thread has had quite a few alerts and has gotten off track quite a bit...even starting to get political.  I don't have time to surgically go through 3 pages and read as well as edit every post.  Any more alerts and the topic will be closed....

Alan Arnold
Publisher/Partner-Advertising Sales Manager
O Gauge Railroading magazine
adman@ogaugerr.com
800-980-OGRR (6477)

PRR Man posted:

what is this alert thing you speak of?

does that mean there are tattlers like don't like a frank, adult discussion and have to alert the moderators to it, so it can be handled?

geez, what children.

Yep that about sums it up.

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OGR Publishing, Inc. PO Box 218, Hilliard, OH 43026 330-757-3020
www.ogaugerr.com
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