I saw this post by the RR Museum of Pennsylvania and thought it was interesting...
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What is interesting about the photo is that the watch is depicted with a shoelace instead of a chain. This was done so that the metal on metal of the watch/chain wouldn't wear through. The shoelace saves the watch and the chain.
I've never seen a bow worn through. I suspect it would take many decades for a chain to wear through a bow. It's not like the chain rubs the bow constantly.
The 1897 Sears catalog shows watch chains...not shoelaces or leather protectors. I use a chain on my watches.
For what it's worth, I purchased my first BRAN-SPANKING NEW Hamilton 992B, from the local DL&W RR watch inspector in 1956, for $98. When I went to work as a summer Hosteler Helper, the "old heads" commented favorably about my really nice Simmons block-link design chain (purchased along with the watch with money I earned working at the local lumber yard). Then, one of my favorite DL&W Engineers, Clarence "Stinky" Davis, nicknamed due to his ever-present cigar, suggested that the "Fancy chain was really nice for dress, or if you were a Passenger Conductor, but a braided leather watch strap was much more durable and appropriate for engine service.". I then visited the watch inspector and purchased 3 or 4 braided leather pocket watch straps, one of which I still have and use with bib overalls, to this day. I also still have that Simmons block-link chain for "dress", but alas, my ver first Hamilton 992B was stolen some 30 years ago.
The late 1950s are a far cry from the golden era of railroading.
smd4 posted:I've never seen a bow worn through. I suspect it would take many decades for a chain to wear through a bow. It's not like the chain rubs the bow constantly.
The 1897 Sears catalog shows watch chains...not shoelaces or leather protectors. I use a chain on my watches.
I've seen a number worn really bad on ebay. The men that I worked with that used a pocket watch used a shoestring as a quasi-chain.
How do you attach a shoestring to your overalls? Watch chains from back in the day used a T-bar which securely attaches a chain to a button hole (or the hole that you can find even on today's modern overalls [Dickies and others] which is meant to be used by a T-bar chain). I wouldn't trust a shoelace, myself. That's a long drop for an expensive watch if the shoelace doesn't hold.
There are leather watch straps made for pocket watches. I have some for my Hamiltons
Joe
smd4 posted:How do you attach a shoestring to your overalls? Watch chains from back in the day used a T-bar which securely attaches a chain to a button hole (or the hole that you can find even on today's modern overalls [Dickies and others] which is meant to be used by a T-bar chain). I wouldn't trust a shoelace, myself. That's a long drop for an expensive watch if the shoelace doesn't hold.
It is very very simple. Take the photo above/below, Cut the shoestring to the length you are comfortable with (try that with your gold chain) and knot the ends. Then, slip the knotted end of the string through the button hole and form a loop, then slip the watch through the loop, just like they did when they attached the shoestring to the watch. Easy-peezy! And, no chance of a T-bar slipping out.
The hole in my overalls for the T-bar doesn't go all the way through. It's like a pocket.
It's maddeningly difficult to remove the T-bar from its hole when I want to remove it. It ain't ever falling out on its own.
smd4 posted:The hole in my overalls for the T-bar doesn't go all the way through. It's like a pocket.
It's maddeningly difficult to remove the T-bar from its hole when I want to remove it. It ain't ever falling out on its own.
Well, I must disagree with you on THAT. It only took one time for the T Bar on my chain to come out of my bib overalls. I never used THAT chain again, in spite of how nice it looked! Ever since I have used those braid leather pocket watch lanyards, which were specifically designed for railroad pocket watches, carried in bib overalls.
Now,,,,you have been doing this for how many years?
Long enough to know you did something wrong.
smd4 posted:Long enough to know you did something wrong.
Sure! You always have the "answer" don't you?
I believe I have a pair of work boots older that you are.
I have that same watch but it doesn't work anymore. Took it to a watch specialist and he wanted $400 to clean and fix the main spring. Nope it's back in my top drawer. Didn't you guys wear pants with watch pockets? The leather strap went around a belt buckle.
Gregg posted:I have that same watch but it doesn't work anymore. Took it to a watch specialist and he wanted $400 to clean and fix the main spring. Nope it's back in my top drawer. Didn't you guys wear pants with watch pockets? The leather strap went around a belt buckle.
Right. My Levies, and other work jeans, have watch pockets and I would never use the "fancy" watch chain with those either. The braided leather strap is totally failure/fool proof.
Hot Water posted:smd4 posted:Long enough to know you did something wrong.
Sure! You always have the "answer" don't you?
I believe I have a pair of work boots older that you are.
"I" always have the answer? Were you tying to be ironic, or did it just come out that way?
Happily, I have books, photos and documentary information that predate you--I know, hard to believe. But yes, they're that old.
I'm going for historical accuracy. While I have seen historic photos of leather "shoelaces" being used by engine crew, the majority of photographic evidence show chains being used by them (this must have been before the generation that couldn't figure out how to use a T-bar without it falling out. But I digress).
Obviously, chains were exclusively used by conductors. Guess they must have been the majority of customers for replacement bows.
smd4 posted:Hot Water posted:smd4 posted:Long enough to know you did something wrong.
Sure! You always have the "answer" don't you?
I believe I have a pair of work boots older that you are.
"I" always have the answer? Were you tying to be ironic, or did it just come out that way?
Happily, I have books, photos and documentary information that predate you--I know, hard to believe. But yes, they're that old.
I'm going for historical accuracy. While I have seen historic photos of leather "shoelaces" being used by engine crew, the majority of photographic evidence show chains being used by them (this must have been before the generation that couldn't figure out how to use a T-bar without it falling out. But I digress).
Obviously, chains were exclusively used by conductors. Guess they must have been the majority of customers for replacement bows.
Well there you go. It's all in the books!
Speaking of Hamilton watches, this is a family watch. History is sketchy. Love the B&O logo. It's a 21 jewel 992 from around 1920. The case etchings are a good sign of being used on the railroad, since inspectors and watch repairmen often marked their work.
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That is a neat watch. The dial appears to be from a 992B, so it would be a replacement. I've never seen one with a railroad herald like that. I agree that the scribbling inside the case is indicative of a railroad-used watch.
Gregg posted:I have that same watch but it doesn't work anymore. Took it to a watch specialist and he wanted $400 to clean and fix the main spring. Nope it's back in my top drawer. Didn't you guys wear pants with watch pockets? The leather strap went around a belt buckle.
If I may interject a couple of comments . . .
I know it hurts in the wallet, but to properly maintain a railroad grade pocket watch, you cannot just take it down to your local jeweler, who will likely remove the case, put in an ultrasonic cleaner, oil it, and return it to you. A railroad watch should be taken only to one of the declining number of watchmakers, who will disassemble the works, clean the parts, reassemble it with any necessary repairs, adjust and test it to assure accurate timekeeping, and then return it to you -- unfortunately, at a somewhat higher price than you would pay for a typical watch cleaning. In the days when we were required to have our watches inspected monthly, only certain jewelers were permitted to do this work and sign your watch card. The monthly inspection normally consisted of removing the back of the case, inspecting the works for damage or wear using a loupe, adjusting the watch for accuracy, and possibly spot oiling. When the watch was due for "COTS" maintenance (clean-oil-test-set) the same jeweler performed that service. Our jeweler in San Bernardino was a guy named Barney, who was a Union Pacific Brakeman, hiring out in the late 1930's. After a couple of years, and while low on seniority, he got bumped off of a local freight at San Berdino/Riverside and the only job he could hold was at Las Vegas, so he took off in his automobile on the 2-lane U.S. Highway to Vagas. Out in the desert, he wrecked his auto and sustained serious injuries, ending his Train Service career due to being paralyzed below the waist. He went to watchmaker school, and went to work for a local jeweler in San Bernardino, later opening his own shop.
I carried an Illinois Bunn Special through my entire engine service career, sometimes wearing overalls, and, mostly, wearing 501 Levi jeans or Wrangler 13MZW's. At first, I used a gold-plated chain. A friendly old-head Engineer advised me that, as Fireman and being in the engine room periodically near the exposed high voltage electrical gear, my watch might become magnetized if I accidentally touched something and received a shock (like the time I accidentally touched the "spark plug wire" on a steam generator aboard a passenger unit). He told me about a Los Angeles Engineer named Walter Trevillion, who made braided leather watch chains that would not let any stray voltage pass from me to my watch and would not break as easily as a chain. After Walter retired, I bought a couple of extra leather watch chains, which lasted me the rest of my Engineer days.
You are probably not using your pocket watch as a railroad watch, so any decorative chain you prefer will probably work for you, but please take Hot Water's advice about the T-end -- those were notoriously responsible for pocket watches taking a nice bounce on the floor. Therefore, if you choose to use one, understand the risk, and please keep a firm grip on the watch from the time it comes out of your pocket until it goes back in. Enjoy owning a fine time piece, but please do the required maintenance and take it to a responsible, even though expensive, watchmaker at least every year for an inspection and any required oiling, repairs or cleaning. I was told by the last watchmaker who cleaned mine, that modern watch lubricants will last for three years.
Well stated, Tom. I am a notorious tightwad, but when it comes to maintenance and repair of a vintage timepiece, I will gladly pay for knowledge, experience and ability. I recently made a 500 mile round trip to take my paternal grandfather's 1902 Illinois Watch Company pocket watch to a competent watchmaker. Yes, I could have shipped it there... but I would rather deliver it in person. Yes, I will have to pay a tidy sum when it is repaired, but it will be done right. And when I make the trip to pick it up, the first thing I will do is reattach the leather watch strap...
I sent my 992 to a fine horologist in Tennessee named Rob Carter. (http://www.pocketwatchrepairs.net/index.html). He tuned it up, and it probably keeps better time than a quartz watch--meaning it loses less seconds over time than quartz. It didn't cost anything near $400, but it was working. Why not shoot him an email and see if you can get an estimate?
A couple of nights ago I was watching Antiques Roadshow and a lady brought in a watch that had belonged to her father. He was a rancher, not a railroader, but this was a 23 jewel Waltham and was definitely a railroad watch. What I thought was interesting was a feature I had never seen before - a small dial at the top of the watch that indicated when the watch was needing to be rewound.
As an aside, I was never a railroader, but a rancher and always used a pocket watch - wrist watches ended up being damaged or destroyed with that type of work. I always used a short (6" or so) leather loop fastened to a belt loop and the watch kept in the watch pocket. Haven't had a watch for a long time, though, because these days I am not to concerned about the time.
I'm certainly not saying you should only use a chain. Leather straps are fine, and in the first half of the last century, certainly not unheard of in railroading. I have found one very clear picture of an engineer using shoelaces/leather straps (This was Railroading, Beebe/Clegg)
I enjoy studying railroading from the 1880s through the early 1900s. It's clear from the photographic record during this time period (if you choose to believe in the authenticity of the photographs) that chains were the preferred method of carrying a pocket watch by engine crews.
