Is Lionel Winning You Over...?

Lionel cautiously won me back in 2003 when they announced newly tooled S Scale Mikado's for the American Flyer line.  Available in B&O and NYC, for looks and detail, they exceeded my expectations.  Operationally, they both ran superior to their previous Flyer offerings, as good as any American Models or S Helper Service locomotive.

The B&O had a bad switch on the sound cam, which was repaired to my satisfaction.  It only took 2 months...

I've picked up more "scale" Flyer since then and in spite of a "few bumps in the road," I'm enthusiastic about the new direction for Flyer. It's go me thinking if I ever have to tear down my S Scale railroad, I might rebuild in HiRail, combining AF, AM and SHS products.

The new scale Flyer "ain't yo' daddy's Flyer" for sure!

Rusty

Congratulations OGR Forumites--2-1/2 pages of discussion and most everyone remained civil.

Love 'em both and just hope MTH gets doing steamers again real soon!  Also, want both Lionel and MTH to do software control APPs!

Dewey that's what I was hoping for!!!   For the record I should state that I do pre-order a number of items. Not becuase I want to but unfortunately I have to.  The Northern Pacific is not the Pennsylvania Railroad. And the Montana Rail Link is not the New York Central. If I don't pre-order it....then chances are I'll never get it due to light production.

But its fascintating reading everyone's responses....

 

John!!

 

Looking forward to meeting you. I'm easy to spot I bleed black and gold of the Milwaukee and black and yellow of the Northern Pacific!   So I'm happy to foam for those railroads. Matt is a B & O addict...but I'm working on corrupting him. When he gets his first Milwaukee Road locomotive I will know that I have suceeded. There are some Pennsy addicts in the club. Bob likes Pennsylvania GG1s and George loves the Pennsylvania. So you'll be in good company. Its in Fairfax on Thursday evening at 7:00. We meet in a community center.

 

I'm looking forward to meeting you!!

 

David  

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by John Pignatelli JR.:

Hi to all of you Capital trackers SJC, MU Eagle, and Boilermaker 1. I like to thank you for your invite and will surly get my caboose over to your meeting Thursday, the Commander in Chief has given me permission to go. I am looking forward to it As most of you know I am a B&O fan and a heavy PRR guy,unfortunately most of my trains are in storage we are waiting for a town house to become available in August, when we move in I can get most of my train back( the C IN C el Supremo will need to concur) I will see you guys Thursday!

 

I watched the video of Mike Wolf at York, I was impressed and happy to here he is increasing his capacity to produce much more engines in the near future. I said before and I will repeat. I do not care what he produces for the Europeans as long as he make trains for the North American folks I will be a happy camper, I love MTH trains, I love their innovation,  their forward thinking, there new train model releases. I missed those in recent catalogs, I hope MTH will get back to making new Items for the American market as they have done in the past.

 

Won't be there (as usual). See you all at the Beltsville Day Show (which I will be at)! 

When I migrated to O-Gauge after over 30 years in HO, I did so with MTH. That was four years and 26 engines ago. I also use DCS.

A few months ago I discovered Legacy, and now have nine Legacy engines and the Legacy system.

MTH

I have had to send two engines back to MTH (via the dealer) for repair and I repaired three myself, but I haven’t had to deal with MTH directly, and from what I have read, I am glad.

DCS: I cannot imagine successfully running DCS, as I have to a great extent, without the help of this forum and Barry’s book. I believe that Rich Melvin’s video is a must before getting started with DCS, and Barry’s book must be at your side henceforth. (MTH should include both with their system.)

Lionel

Of the nine engines I have, two have had to go back to Lionel; one twice, plus a replacement of three PCB’s that I did myself.

However, dealing with Lionel customer service has been a delight. The engines that I sent them for repair were back in a few days, and they kept me posted of the progress on a timely basis.

Legacy: I have not had any problems at all, and its installation could not be simpler.

If the diesel engines I want to buy in the future were offered by both MTH and Lionel, I will more likely buy the Lionel versions.

And since MTH has more or less abandoned the premier line steam engines, I will almost have to buy the Lionel steamers.

Alex

That's temporary as they have had problems with their casting machinery in China. Once they get the backlog taken care of, they will be back with new steam. I have a couple of their newer designs and I'm quite happy with them. 

 

And since MTH has more or less abandoned the premier line steam engines, I will almost have to buy the Lionel steamers.

M.U. EAgle:  David; Nice topic here that you started.  Missed you at York and wonder if you were there?

The reason that Lionel is presently getting most of my business is because they are making items that I'm interested in.  While I was not "married" to any particular manufacturer, I have defined my layout's interests to pre-1950 and pretty much to Milwaukee Road.  Oh, I have a few C&NW engines and will continue to purchase them as they come out, along with a lonely Soo Line, FA set, but, if it says "Milwaukee Road" on it, and it is a fairly accurate model and represents the period, I will buy it no matter who makes it.  I operate my trains using DCS, TMCC as well as Legacy, so anything goes.

MTH's recent edict that there will be no new steam engines has automatically placed me on hold.  And, of course, Lionel's wonderful new S-3 with many of the features it has, certainly gotten my money.  I now have two S-3's, the first, #261 is a brass model from Weaver, the 2nd from Lionel, #265.  I really would like to see a heavy USRA Mikado, (the Milwaukee had 100 or them) and have been campaigning MTH to do that engine.  Now it appears that the earliest that they could do that engine would be in about two years.  So, now I'm campaigning Lionel to do it and I sincerely hope that theirs comes out in less time than that. 

Stay in touch and stay our of trouble.

Paul Fischer

I find it amazing that some folks feel MTH made a deliberate business decision not to make any more Premier steam.

To what end?  To forsake the US O Gauge market entirely and concentrate on the HO and European markets?   In order just to purposely cheese off the primary customer base? 

That'd be like the kid that says "I'm gonna hold my breath until I turn blue and die and then you'll be sorry!"

Manufacturing is a tough business.  Things go wrong for any number of reasons and in a "just in time" world, any mishap can screw things up royaly. 

The malady that struck MTH could have just as easily hit Lionel.

Rusty

Rusty,

I suspect (hope*) that MTH will offer steam engines again, but if I want to buy one in the next year or so, I don't believe I would hold my breath for an MTH, would you?

* Afterall, competition is what keeps prices at the lowest possible level (even if too high from an absolute point of view) and also drives new technological developments and features. Yes, we need both MTH and Lionel.

Alex

Due to budgetary constraints I haven't gotten into the Legacy world at all. I see the reviews done by others on YT and they look AWESOME!

I am waiting to see what the NEXT BIG THING MTH will come up with, also.

I hope it will create more competition in the industry.

But from what I can make of the emerging economies we had all better start learning a foreign language!

If one wants to buy a steam locomotive right now, no.

But it seems some folks are writing an MTH obituary because of problems with one part of a diverse product line.

I've said it before and I''ll say it again: O gaugers still have never had it so good.  S Gaugers have been suffering for well over 2 years without new products because of the Sanda Kan fiasco knocking out THREE manufacurers at once.  They're only now slowly beginning to recover.

Think about it:

No new steam...

No new diesels...

No new freight cars...

No new passenger cars...

No new track...

No new catalogs...

Only a dwindling supply of existing inventory...

For over 2 years...

Yet most S Gaugers remained optomistic, even before Lionel got more aggressive with the American Flyer (of which the new Challengers and U33C's were also 1-2 years behind schedule also.)

So, you'll have to pardon me for my lack of sympathy about not being able to buy a steam locomotive from one of several O Gauge manufacturers right now.

Rusty

I admit that I'm a MTH guy in that every engine I own (except for my 1969 Lionel Switcher) is MTH PS2.  That said I envy owners of Lionel engines with the steaming whistles and other steam effects.  My club mate demonstrated the 2-6-6-2 Mallet articulated that runs on O-54 and I was really impressed by the sound (when it worked).  No doubt that as a loyal MTH operator for the last 10 years I'm seriously considering Lionel.  While MTH hasn't made any new (North American) Premier steam in a couple of years, I've added a handful of used Premier engines to my collection.  Some required PS2 conversion but all were great deals relative to new purchases.   I really REALLY like scale steam and I’m delighted that I can run engines as large as 4-8-4’s on my outer loop.  For the life of me I can’t understand why MTH doesn’t make a wider selection of B&O steamers (railroad my layout is modeled on).  Lionel has made a variety of B&O steamers and is adding Vision line features to them.

My collection has evolved as I’ve gotten more involved into the hobby.  My budget has increased as well.  When I started, $350 for a starter set was a big deal.  Now I’ve spent up to $600 for a used scale steamer.  My return to O happened when my kids Grandfather got them a Lionel set in 2000.  Soon thereafter we discovered MTH sets and PS2 and DCS.  DCS really expanded our enjoyment of O scale and we bought Railking semi scale.  Then I discovered I could buy used Premier for the price of new Railking on eBay.  I learned how to do my own repairs and PS2 upgrades.  So I know MTH DCS pretty well and have enjoyed it.  As far as I know you can’t operate a Lionel Legacy engine with DCS.  So I’d have to get the Legacy control system if I got a Legacy engine.  I hope MTH does start offering domestic Premier steam (in B&O) in the next year.  I’d like to be able to control my trains with an app on my iPhone or iPad.  The competition between Lionel and MTH is good for us all and the future looks great.  Eventually I’ll need ;-) to get a new steamer with all of the latest details, sounds and steam effects.  If MTH doesn’t match Lionel soon it will be a Legacy.

lionel has the best products and their customer service is second to none. their quality control in building the products at the factories needs a lot of help.

My first dcs/tmcc train was a up dash 9 mth.I love both brands but yea i been buying alot more lionel cause there making what i want. The other reasons are service to me if your buying dcs or legacy trains your gonna have problems from time to time. I do live 40 mins from lionel in canfield and going there and getting admazing service makes me happy.  Lionel hit a home run with there service department. I cant stand dealing with mth service department or sending them anything. I am sure mth will make legacy style trains soon and fix there service issiues and we all be buying more of them..

Is Lionel Winning You Over...?

No. The extreme lack of prototype research and quality control has turned me off of Lionel.

Lucas, you must mean that they chose an ACF Box Car number for the Canadian National CNA PS 60' Auto Parts Box Car, when are PS boxcars in close number series such as

CNA 799387-799410

The Grand Trunk Western PS 60' Boxcar is an actual road number at the end of series

383458-383575 built in 1967 by Pullman-Standard.

The Grand Trunk ACF Center Flow is a compromise because they wanted to go with the post-1972 sides, sio they used the 4-Bay Covered Hopper.

Andrew

Falcon Service

Yes

Lionel's new American Flyer is as cool as the other side of the pillow!  I have had some issues that could be blamed on QC, but Lionel, and my LHS owner have always stepped up and taken care of the issue.  I am not in O, but I love the advances that Lionel makes in their O Gauge bread and butter, because it trickles its way down to S.

Ben

The Legacy Vision Line Hudson got (and still has) my attention!

I have owned a number of the JLC steam locos, but this engine's features and performance exceeds all other Lionel engines I have previously owned and operated.

BEST Lionel smoke!

BEST slow-speed operation!

BEST sound system: ambient steam sounds, chuffing, whistle & bell!

Yes they have ; especially will all of the new legacy features on their engines.

Maybe MTH will catch up next year will there re-introduction of American steam.

They (MTH) have done a great job on their European models.

The trickle runs both ways.  Lionel O will eventually benefit from the smaller elecrtonics required for S.  S benefits from the research and data lionel has already collected for the scale O products.

Plus, Flyer got Kadee mounting brackets for the Challenger and U33C and the upcoming scale cars are supposed to be Kadee-friendly.  (And not to mention, scale wheels for the diesels...)  Maybe these will eventually trickle up to the O scale line.

Rusty