Lessons learned

I would add a couple more:

1. The standard rule-of-thumb with electronic equipment is that, if problems are going to crop up, they will usually appear within the first 90 days of usage. Therefor, if you buy a new locomotive, put it on the track and use it. Don't let it sit in the box for two years and then take out and be disappointed that it doesn't operate properly and is now out of warranty. 

2. If you don't have an LHS nearby and have to order an engine online, make the dealer take it out of the box to inspect it and run it on their test track. Most reputable dealers will do this for you. If they won't, I suggest finding another dealer. This will eliminate issues with broken parts on arrival and help insure the loco is running properly when it gets to you. Do this also when you buy in person at your LHS.

Mike:

All good advice!

I started keeping a maintenance log on each engine about 10 years ago.  And before any new engine goes on my layout, it first goes on my bench where I oil and lube the motor, gears and wheels.

While I have the shell off, I also check for any binding wiring.

Curt

Mike and Richie, All excellent advice! 

I had good luck with the two new Christmas sets I bought, but I am 50-50 with the two new command control engines I bought.  I won't say which manufacturer's engine has the defect out of the box.  I have 4 conventional and 16 command engines all told (MTH and Lionel), so the bulk were purchased used, most from Forum members.  Two had issues that I was made aware of by the seller before committing my money, so I got a great price.  So in my small sample, I did better with used engines.  I agree, maintenance is a must, and I have a lubrication and overall inspection list now in the works.  I started buying O gauge over 8 years ago, after having HO, N, HOn3, and On30 trains over the previous 40+ years.  The features today are startling to me still, but as you said, there is more to go wrong.  Learning to do some maintenance and not being afraid to break something has been very helpful to me too.

I'll look forward to seeing what others contribute here.

Mike I agree. I buy Legacy locomotives off the secondary market that are proven runners.Most from the fellas here on the forum.  I have taught myself how to order parts and work on them for the most part but not all. If I need to pay shipping and a repair once in a great while, I am still WAY ahead of the game and not stressed out at all. Nick

@Mike Wyatt posted:

I have learned a great deal over a short 3+ years in this hobby.  Recently- I had a couple of experiences that have caused me to realize these "rules" and confirmed maintenance and prep practices.  

I favor Lionel (over MTH) generally.  I don't know why- but I do, so these apply to Lionel products, but maybe to ALL.  I also evolved from postwar/ conventional, to now command control and TMCC or Legacy engines.  Most are bought on e-Bay.

First- ordering a BTO (I call it OaW- order and wait):  I  pre-ordered and, received 9 months later, a Legacy "F7" AA set.  The un-powered  unit had a "dead short" in the trucks and, had many loose screws.  So (disappointed that a $900 set wasn't "right"  out of the box, too long on the phone, worry, then wait) - I had to get an RGO from Lionel.  They sent a prepaid shipping label, found a short in a truck, but also a need for a new sound board and smoke unit. They did take care of it, and in only about 10 days ship out to return. 

BUT the excitement of a new BTO loco was lost. 

A NOS Legacy GP9  After running the locomotive for about 30 days a gear "froze" , causing HOURS of time figuring out how to take everything apart, fix the gear, etc.  It of course was not in warranty. The issue was that the Chinese subcontractor  had not oiled the gear train fully.  (On the plus side- there IS a degree of satisfaction in doing this for myself, but...).  

So- my RULES:  If one wants to have "state of the art" locomotives (vs. earlier, "Made In The US of America" Lionel), and if one favors command control and newish, TMCC and Legacy engines: 

1.  Realize that a manufacturer/importer is really in charge of the DESIGN, not the execution/ manufacturing of that design.  Look at the dramatic difference (wires, connections, boards) between a PW, and more so a TMCC and a Legacy engine.  The more features, the higher likelihood of something not being right even in a brand new product. 

2.  The reality is that an importer in this small production market cannot control QC the same as if he MADE the product.  He cannot station QC people in China, even IF the subcontractor would accept it.  It is not LIONEL's QC- it is the subcontractors QC that determines what you get.  

3. New Old Stock ("in the box and un-run" ) does NOT mean perfect.  These are NOT automobiles and there are no recalls or re-engineering out the faults that appear "in early production".  It is ALL early production.  Normal "production runs" are ONE - run of maybe 1000 or so,  about every 5-12 years.  

A problem "common" in one particular type of engine will be "common" in all of that run's engines, maybe yours.  If you buy a NOS locomotive the manufacturer will likely not have not "fixed" any inherent problems.   And there is NO warranty, so...

4.   Buy engines that are a few years old.  This allows that a previous owner "worked out the bugs".  Most of us do not really run any single engine a "lot" so a used engine in good shape is probably a good buy.  But you can't tell "maintenance"- so one with a lot of hours may or may not be a good buy.

5.  "Fiddling" is expensive in money by a guy paid to do it- or by YOU in time.  Be bold enough to take it apart and learn to fix it yourself.  Also- the chances of YOU fatally screwing up something, are remote.  And if you do- see Rule #6 below.

6.  "For Parts"-  I NEEDED new trucks and gearing for a LC+ RS-3.  One was on e-Bay, and so I took the plunge.  The only thing wrong with it was... a broken power wire in the truck feeding power to the motor.  Solder- and viola'! a like new locomotive at 1/2 price.  Pay for parts- but check for an underlying gem. (I ended up buying new trucks from Lionel- $100 or so, but I have 2 locos.)

7.  For ANY new-to-you locomotive, NOS or all-new test- then maintain.  Run the engine to be sure it is electrically and electronically sound/ everything works.  Then, immediately put it through your personal maintenance process- clean the wheels, oil the gear shafts, side rods and axles, lightly grease the gears,  check and tighten the screws slightly ( but don't over-tighten).

8.  Have a maintenance schedule:  after you complete an overall maintenance, record the date.  I use pencil written in the bottom, with the date "Maint 8/20", then I know when the next might be due.  

Still learning....

I don't buy anything new especially BTO. I like going to train shows ( when we can do that again if ever). Most of my trains I bought at York and one or two from the local hobby shop. Everything runs well...for now.

Great post Mike!  I strongly agree with almost everything that you wrote.

It takes broad shoulders to be in this hobby today, especially if you don't have one of the top-notch train stores or repair people nearby.  You have to temper your expectations.  I've been disappointed so many times, I lost count!  There's almost always an acceptable outcome, but it takes a LOT of patience and open-mindedness to get there.

The existence of this Forum community, the exchange of ideas and solutions might be all that keeps some people from giving up!

I generally agree with not buying anything new, especially BTO. Still, I get tempted sometimes to roll the dice on a BTO engine. I really loved those Cotton Belt GP-9's in the latest catalog, but, alas, I didn't give in and order them.

My postwar collection has been in storage for quite some time. In anticipation of a new train room I started to do some maintenance and testing. My GG-1, manufactured in 1950, has not seen the light of day in about 20 plus years. I cleaned and lubed it, put it on the test track and it was as if she was fresh out of the factory. From this discussion, it sounds like ,”they don’t make ‘em like that anymore “.

I'm quite glad they "don't make 'em like that anymore". Pre TMCC stuff is quite boring to operate.

I've yet to have anything new not work correctly out of the box. If it doesn't then I'm quite capable of fixing most issues that arise, but then again I've added command control to half of my locomotives (both TMCC & PS3). The other half were TMCC or PS2/PS3 out of the box.

Good points all around.

This is why I wish they would just sell kits we could assemble ourselves. Make the parts by machine, box ‘em up and ship ‘em out.  All in the good ole US of A.

With the parts disassembled there is less chance for a heavy engine to smash fine detail. And I know if I spend that kinda money I’m gonna make sure it’s put together correctly, lubed and no pinched wires.

P.S. - plus it’s fun!

@rplst8 posted:

Good points all around.

This is why I wish they would just sell kits we could assemble ourselves. Make the parts by machine, box ‘em up and ship ‘em out.  All in the good ole US of A.

With the parts disassembled there is less chance for a heavy engine to smash fine detail. And I know if I spend that kinda money I’m gonna make sure it’s put together correctly, lubed and no pinched wires.

P.S. - plus it’s fun!

Having the option of buying a disassembled engine that the hobbyist can put together for less cost is interesting, and maybe even profitable for the train manufacturer.

For someone like me who has very limited mechanical knowledge and skills, I will always choose to pay more for a fully assembled locomotive. Arnold

Mike's info is very sage advice; I too rarely buy anything new and I too enjoy picking up used locos I like; hopefully in need of repair.  Have found some gems that way.  If a new product comes out I like, I wait for it to show up on the used market; may take some time but it usually does or I loose interest.  I like the modern Lionel but also run and repair postwar and MPC.

I am fortunate I am mechanically inclined; and very fortunate there is a lot of talent on this forum that can help.  As to China production, I suspect Lionel does not have total (if any) control of design and execution of all production; the electronics were probably designed here but not the production.  I also suspect the Chinese would not appreciate or allow a Lionel QC person to QC products; therefore we get what we get.  I can recall the early TMCC stuff from the late 90's where one would find "inspected by" such and such.  Not anymore.

So I wait for the new stuff to be sold by users; I read the posts of dissatisfied customers who are very upset about lack of instant service or responses or parts.  I have children and learned long ago there are two sides to every story I heard from them.  We never hear the side of CS at Lionel or MTH.  I have worked in the service business and it can be brutal.  I can only imagine if there were more staffing or parts available both at Lionel or MTH.  I very rarely hear of folks who are happy with their purchase but I believe there are very many.  On occasion i read of an attaboy for folks at Lionel for MTH; that is very good to read.   I try to use sugar instead of vinegar when I contact these folks; generally works well for me; if not, I let it go.  I try to avoid the negative postings and really enjoy those who share good stuff.  I really do not know if venting or complaining does me any good; my wife says it does not!  So I wait for the used stuff as does Mike.  Apologies for the length of this post, but I too have learned; thanks Mike; Falcon70

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Having the option of buying a disassembled engine that the hobbyist can put together for less cost is interesting, and maybe even profitable for the train manufacturer.

For someone like me who has very limited mechanical knowledge and skills, I will always choose to pay more for a fully assembled locomotive. Arnold

I’ll make you a deal.  Help me lobby the manufacturers for kits, and I’ll build whatever you eventually buy for free.