I have a chance to get one ..  (.LIONEL 38015 773 HUDSON)   Is this the same size as the postwar 773? I  always wanted a postwar 773 ... But I do like the TMCC contoll and sounds . Just wondering if you had to pick one which one would you get .. (and why). postwar or this one..thanks ...daniel

Original Post

The locomotive is basically the same size as the original (but made with the modern tooling). The tender, on the other hand, is basically the same short, semi-scale 2426W of the original, but with extra detailing underneath as well as fitted with RailSounds. If you can find this at a good price, I recommend it. 

Thomas

Somerset County 4-H Trainmasters

TCA Member11-66911

LCCA 30247

ERR Upgrades and Custom Artwork

As an added historical nugget (if you care about such things), supposedly (If my memory is not failing me) this is the last engine made in the USA. 

It was supposed to be the (28074 model #, I think) Berkshire, but then they made these Hudsons from leftover Century Club Hudson components, so these were actually the last.

-Dave

Dan, if you have 031 tubular track and 022 Postwar switches, like me, I would investigate whether the modern 773, like the Postwar 773,  works on that track and switches. I never had a 773.

If someone has a definite answer to the above, it would help to share it here. Arnold

 

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

As a Gen-Xer who didn't grow up in the postwar era, I don't believe the originals are worth the premium.  One concern I have, especially with the 1950 model, is that the wheels often aren't well-centered on the axles.  I've seen examples at train shows priced over $1000 where the center driving wheel was almost falling off!  Well-used examples sometimes show a line scribed through the axle, which suggests that the wheel was removed and pressed back on (hopefully "in quarter!")  This is a difficult repair for a home hobbyist without special equipment.

The "783" (8406) and "784" (8606) made during the MPC era are good copies, and were still rated for O31.  These used the 2426W tender and small pilot wheels of the 773.  You can sometimes find these still new in the box.  Watch out for hardened grease which will have to be cleaned out, and also magne-traction magnets which may have shifted, and rub on the inside of the wheels.  Once these issues have been addressed, they'll run about as well as the Postwar version. 

All of the versions I mentioned will make it around O31, but there's a TON of overhang, especially the cab roof when running in reverse.  They were derived from prewar scale models, and IMO always looked out of place with the downsized toy trains and buildings of the postwar era.

I think the 704 Santa Fe "Warhorse" (18062) circa 1997 also came with the small pilot wheels, and could get around O31 curves.  These were notably stiff when new, and also benefit from a lot of break-in time.

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Ted S posted:

The "783" (8406) and "784" (8606) made during the MPC era are good copies, and were still rated for O31.  These used the 2426W tender and small pilot wheels of the 773. 

My 783 has the full-length tender.

You can sometimes find these still new in the box.  Watch out for hardened grease which will have to be cleaned out, and also magne-traction magnets which may have shifted, and rub on the inside of the wheels.  Once these issues are addressed, they'll run about as well as the Postwar version. 

My 783 is probably the best-running locomotive I have, but potential buyers should be aware that it took me months of work and breakin time to get it that way.  There was much more than hardened grease and rubbing magnets slowing it down.  When it first came out of the box, it would barely move at all.  Even the dealer who sold it to me wasn't optimistic.  I don't know if they were all so problematic or not, but mine was.

It's probably worth noting that it's possible to add scale 700E valve gear to the 783 (I did it), but there's extra work and extra parts involved.

All of the versions I mentioned will make it around O31, but there's a TON of overhang, especially the cab roof when running in reverse.  They were derived from prewar scale models, and IMO always looked out of place with the downsized toy trains and buildings of the postwar era.

This is true.  The 783 would definitely not look right on a Postwar layout.

 

 

I have this engine, and all of the other modern ERA ones, including MPC, PWC, and Century Club.

If Memory Serves, This Hudson engine, is a leftover from the Century Club. Lionel had several engines left when the CC1 ended, and decided to put it in a regular box, and number the item #38015 to get rid of the leftover stock (this was around the time, production was moving to over seas). 

Not many exist in this box because it was uncatalogued. The premium believe it or not is the box with the number.

The last "engine" made in USA, was the 28074 NKP Berkshire. This is the Postwar size, and not the scale.

 

Good Luck!!

Mark

TCA, LCCA,

All Lionel!!

Postwar, MPC, LTI Standard O, PWC, CC, Plasticville..All the way!!!!

 

Per the front truck and valve gear:

This is my 704 "Santa Fe" Warhorse (streamlined with Williams brass to emulate the 5344 J1 in Mercury service).

The truck is a scale Lionel 700E piece, available on eBay. It, of course, drops right in.

The valve gear is Lionel that I got from their website and added to the 704. The valve stem is from the new 700E of a few years ago; couldn't find an "old" one - no matter, they're identical.

The 773 was designed to do 031, I have always understood. I have 072. The scale pilot truck wheels would prevent 031 operation.

I love this platform; built like a household appliance. But, it just cries out for a Pittman can motor. The gearing is pretty good, as was the original's. 

5344-8

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Ted S posted:

As a Gen-Xer who didn't grow up in the postwar era, I don't believe the originals are worth the premium.  One concern I have, especially with the 1950 model, is that the wheels often aren't well-centered on the axles.  I've seen examples at train shows priced over $1000 where the center driving wheel was almost falling off!  Well-used examples sometimes show a line scribed through the axle, which suggests that the wheel was removed and pressed back on (hopefully "in quarter!")  This is a difficult repair for a home hobbyist without special equipment.

The "783" (8406) and "784" (8606) made during the MPC era are good copies, and were still rated for O31.  These used the 2426W tender and small pilot wheels of the 773.  You can sometimes find these still new in the box.  Watch out for hardened grease which will have to be cleaned out, and also magne-traction magnets which may have shifted, and rub on the inside of the wheels.  Once these issues have been addressed, they'll run about as well as the Postwar version. 

All of the versions I mentioned will make it around O31, but there's a TON of overhang, especially the cab roof when running in reverse.  They were derived from prewar scale models, and IMO always looked out of place with the downsized toy trains and buildings of the postwar era.

I think the 704 Santa Fe "Warhorse" (18062) circa 1997 also came with the small pilot wheels, and could get around O31 curves.  These were notably stiff when new, and also benefit from a lot of break-in time.

Ted, your above reply jogged my memory regarding overhang in reverse with engines this size.

A train friend of mine ran his more modern 773 (maybe a Lionel  Century Club remake) in reverse, and it hit the inside of a tunnel and derailed on my layout. That was an easy fix: I simply removed some cardboard strips/plaster cloth on the inside of the tunnel that did not affect its appearance, and the engine ran through it in reverse.

My recollection is my friend's 773 otherwise ran OK on my layout, but I took it nice and slow around my sharp 031 curves.

I don't think the 773 is ideal for my curves, and 773s tend to be expensive. 

On the other hand, if I want to have a Postwar 773 experience, I run my Lionel Postwar 646 Hudson from the early 1950s. It runs and smokes great on my layout; has more detail (metal handrails); and has more heft, is a little bigger and is a better puller than my Lionel 2065 baby Hudson, which also runs and smokes well on my layout.

The Lionel Berkshires are also great premium Postwar locomotives that run great on my type of layout.

I would opt for good Magnetraction to enhance the performance of all the above Postwar engines. Arnold

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

This is my list of the modern  Hudsons with AC Pullmor motors

Modern Semi-Scale Hudsons

19848406NYC#7832426TConventionalSOS
19868606B&A#7842426TConventionalSOS
198718002NYC#7852426TConventionalSOS
199718062ATSF#34472426TCommandRS2.5
200018058NYC#7732426TCommandRS4.0
200138015NYC#7732426TCommandRS4.0
200538096LL#773700TCommandRS5.4


Modern Scale Hudsons

199018005NYC#5340700TConventionalRS1.0
199718056NYC#5344763TCommandRS2.5
200028062LL#1900700TCommandRS4.0


Modern Streamlined Hudsons

199518043C&O#490Yellow BellyCommandRS2.0
199618045NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS2.5
199718067NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS2.5
199918063NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS3.0
200028012LL#264MCommodore VanderbiltCommandRS4.0
200028024LL#265MCommodore VanderbiltCommandRS4.0

 

 

Benny

pharmpod posted:

This is my list of the modern  Hudsons with AC Pullmor motors

Modern Semi-Scale Hudsons

19848406NYC#7832426TConventionalSOS
19868606B&A#7842426TConventionalSOS
198718002NYC#7852426TConventionalSOS
199718062ATSF#34472426TCommandRS2.5
200018058NYC#7732426TCommandRS4.0
200138015NYC#7732426TCommandRS4.0
200538096LL#773700TCommandRS5.4


Modern Scale Hudsons

199018005NYC#5340700TConventionalRS1.0
199718056NYC#5344763TCommandRS2.5
200028062LL#1900700TCommandRS4.0


Modern Streamlined Hudsons

199518043C&O#490Yellow BellyCommandRS2.0
199618045NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS2.5
199718067NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS2.5
199918063NYC#777Commodore VanderbiltCommandRS3.0
200028012LL#264MCommodore VanderbiltCommandRS4.0
200028024LL#265MCommodore VanderbiltCommandRS4.0

 

 

I have the 1950 773 with low mileage and a 18005 from 1990.  I've  never ran either of them so i have no valued opinion on them.

But of the engines listed on Benny's impressive list above are there ones that operate noticeably better than others.?

Just operation not smoke, sound , or other features.

D500 posted:

Per the front truck and valve gear:

This is my 704 "Santa Fe" Warhorse (streamlined with Williams brass to emulate the 5344 J1 in Mercury service).

The truck is a scale Lionel 700E piece, available on eBay. It, of course, drops right in.

The valve gear is Lionel that I got from their website and added to the 704. The valve stem is from the new 700E of a few years ago; couldn't find an "old" one - no matter, they're identical.

The 773 was designed to do 031, I have always understood. I have 072. The scale pilot truck wheels would prevent 031 operation.

I love this platform; built like a household appliance. But, it just cries out for a Pittman can motor. The gearing is pretty good, as was the original's. 

5344-8

They respond so very well to a Pittman D500.........Pat2F494B2F-8DD7-4C68-9AF0-2D4C4B08DD1A

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

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This is my list of Modern Hudsons with can motors

J1e

201011209NYC#5344J1 TenderVision LegacyRS6.0
201011218NYC#5331J1 TenderVision LegacyRS6.0

 

J3a

200128072NYC#5444J3 TenderTMCCRS4.0
200238041NYC#5433J3 TenderTMCC

RS4.0

 

Dreyfuss

199318029NYC#5450DreyfussConventionalDALLEE
200128084NYC#5452DreyfussTMCCRS4.0

 

Empire State Express - Century Club

200538000NYC#5429ESE StreamlinedTMCCRS5.0
200538097NYC#5429PT Tender FOR 38000TMCCRS5.0

 

Empire State Express

201582529NYC#5426ESE StreamlinedLegacyRSL3
201582534NYC#5429ESE StreamlinedLegacyRSL3
201582535NYC#5426ESE w/PT TenderLegacyRSL3
201582536NYC#5429ESE w/PT TenderLegacyRSL3
201582537NYC#5426ESE w/J3 TenderLegacyRSL3

 

This list does not include the J3a Hudsons to be released later this year.

 

Benny

This set?  http://www.lionel.com/products...ght-loco-773-6-31739

I have the '50 & '64 773s plus the 773 with Command from this set.

If you run your trains in Command and don't have a particular nostalgia for 1950 or 1964, then I'd recommend the modern, Command 773.

You can't go wrong with any of them.  Beautiful Lionel history!

 

 

RT   

DANSSUPERO - Just to confuse you more (lol), you may want to do a Search of the Forum under "Lionel Scale Hudson Fans Roll Call" that appeared on or about 2012, only because there are a number of pictures there that would give you a perspective as to what some of the Hudsons referred to in this thread look like; bearing in mind that several of them would not work on your 031 curves.

Got my Menards Curves today ....   The track is really nice wish I went this way the first time the 042  as you can see will still fit a small layout  . without modifying  or enlarging the table.. I recommendthumbnail_20190918_093248 any one  to use them instead of 031 curves... ..daniel All for the  773   !!!!!

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