Just in: Check the Lionel website at www.lionel.com for details. Steam loco and several PE passenger cars. Good to see them doing this, IMO!
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What manufacturer (company) is making this for them?
I wish them the best. In the past Lionel and HO didn't mix.
Chuck Sartor posted:I wish them the best. In the past Lionel and HO didn't mix.
Fifth time's the charm???
"Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results =....."
?
So, if Bachmann has already tooled a reasonably accurate HO model of 1225...and some HW passenger cars....and a fairly popular line of HO track...and production/marketing experience with HO sets...and......
And, yet, there is this niggling thing-a-ling called a 'license'....
Hmmmmmmm.
(....and not just in Denmark, William.)
It has LionChief RC control, as well as DC and DCC. Perhaps an advantage, depends on the price point.
Will it have the cast-in faux handrails?
The same topic is over on the HONGZ forum. No wonder why Rich must think twice before starting a new sub-forum category.
There is a difference between NOW and the past. Jerry Calabrese said the O gauge Polar Express was the best selling set in the entire history of Lionel. No small achievement given today's train market is not the size of the postwar glory days.
I've never seen a Polar Express set in HO. So whatever the terms and conditions of the PE license, obviously Lionel sees an opportunity. The HO market is huge compared to 3-rail. And the 3-rail market gets smaller when you consider all the fragmentation within this market. I doubt the Lionel "scale" Polar Express came anywhere close to the sales success of the non-scale traditional set.
Just because Lionel is planning on this set in HO doesn't mean they're going into the HO market. Though according to a post by JR Junction Train Shop, Lionel will be making an announcement at the NMRA show this weekend in Indianapolis, so we shall see what Lionel intends.
You see lots of HO scale layout displays at shows: Having a Polar Express set running on a HO layout would attract some youthful attention. And with the plastic roadbed track that comes in most HO starter sets, setting up a floor layout under the tree is now easier than ever.
As I said in the other post, if Lionel does well with the PE in HO, it's benefits all of us if for no other reason than it keeps Lionel in business.
I could see HO FasTrak!
Dominic Mazoch posted:I could see HO FasTrak!
Bachmann makes a track in HO and N that is a lot like Fastrack.
Grampstrains posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:I could see HO FasTrak!
Bachmann makes a track in HO and N that is a lot like Fastrack.
dkdkrd posted:Chuck Sartor posted:I wish them the best. In the past Lionel and HO didn't mix.
Fifth time's the charm???
"Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results =....."
So, if Bachmann has already tooled a reasonably accurate HO model of 1225...and some HW passenger cars....and a fairly popular line of HO track...and production/marketing experience with HO sets...and......
And, yet, there is this niggling thing-a-ling called a 'license'....
Hmmmmmmm.
(....and not just in Denmark, William.)
Perhaps Lionel is subbing them out through Bachmann?
NUTS!!!!
Richard
I'd like to see the giraffe car in HO again, at a reasonable price. Maybe even the sheriff and outlaw car, too!
Take care, Joe
My opinion: Lionel's seeing if their Lionchief system is attractive to buyers of other scales.
Grampstrains posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:I could see HO FasTrak!
Bachmann makes a track in HO and N that is a lot like Fastrack.
So does Kato and Life-Like.
Rusty
TX_Steven posted:My opinion: Lionel's seeing if their Lionchief system is attractive to buyers of other scales.
Frankly, DCC is VERY well established in HO. Yeah, I know you can run LionChief on DCC power, but I suspect most HOer's will be less enthralled with the LC controller and would probably tear out the LC electronics and install their favorite DCC decoder.
Plus, there's a lot more completion in HO than there is in O or S.
Rusty
Rusty, there is no need for modelers to tear out the LC electronics to install a DCC decoder, the system has a socket for DCC.
Ken-Oscale posted:Rusty, there is no need for modelers to tear out the LC electronics to install a DCC decoder, the system has a socket for DCC.
I saw a review video that verifies this. It will have a DCC 9 pin socket that the Lionel electronics plug into. So if you want to swap it out for a standard DCC decoder like a TCS WowSound or QSI Titan it will be plug and play. This is a great idea IMHO and it sounds like if the PE does well we could see more from Lionel in HO in the future.
I also learned that the LionChief system is actually Bluetooth so you can operate this engine with DC, DCC, Remote, or App on your smart device. Very good thinking by Lionel.
Fast forward to 10:56 to see the Lionel interview by James Wright:
Wow!!! Lionel and Bluetooth!
(And they said it would never happen!)
Take care, Joe.
Ken-Oscale posted:Rusty, there is no need for modelers to tear out the LC electronics to install a DCC decoder, the system has a socket for DCC.
Good, must have something to do with swimming in a bigger pond. We couldn't get a DCC socket placed in the Legacy American Flyer SD70's for love or money...
Rusty
The video also says the speed control of LC+ is incorporated. Bluetooth is interesting, I wonder if the remote and loco are permanently "paired".
I see actual metal handrails - the loco looks good.
Ken looks to me that the handrails are cast into the shell. If you look closely at the beginning of the handrail at the front of the loco, you can see a solid side to it. Which lines up with what Ryan said about "keeping the details simplified to keep it more evocative of the train in the book and the movie."
Personally, I think that's a good move. When Lionel was not long ago putting wire handrails on their starter steam locomotives, the stations broke quite easily... something that didn't happen with the older style pin holders.
Another point to consider for those questioning the logic of this item. In years gone by, most of us had train layouts that were "our" layouts even though dad built them for us, and even probably ran trains too. Today, those kids are grown up and they are us. Now the layouts are OURS and we let the kids play on our layout. I've read many posts right here on this forum, of guys buying a starter set, being that will be the kid's train to run on dad's layout.
So why not make a rugged simplified train the kids can run on dad's HO layout, or for a holiday display. Obviously HO doesn't have the same play value as do the O gauge trains, but Lionel seems to have compensated for that with the sounds and the variety of control options. As with the O gauge LionChief trains, the kid's can put the PE on dad's layout and run it with their very own remote.
I know some make reference to Lionel's prior failed attempts at HO. They also tried before and failed with command control and scale products. Fast forward to the mid-1990's and those prior failures became very successful in their own time.
I did think it was interesting that Ryan said this (specifically he referred to the engine) was from new tooling. So there's an investment factor here, that Lionel felt was worth risking. And as Ryan hinted, depending on the reception and success of this product, there could be more HO items to follow.
Thanks Jonathan for posting the video. I had made mention of the show, but the video answered some questions, which I expected.
I think you are right brianel027, handrails cast into the shell (consistent with the picture).
I know they mentioned bluetooth and both Android and iOS apps. Is this a new app that takes the place of the Lion Chief controller (directly paired with the train and not requiring additional equipment)? Or is this something like the BlueTrain app connecting to TMCC via a bluetooth adapter?
Guys, the key here I belive is the eletronics. Able to be run in lionchief with remote,dcc,pnone app,or with a standard transformer. Plus a 9 pin plug n play socket. May be if this sells well the team at lionel will standardize all the electronics in thier engines across all scales o,s,ho whatever they produce to run on the mentioned systems across the board. This would ultimately be more user friendly for every level of user. Not to mention they would sell more product and make more profit witch is the bottom line. Mth is already doing this and it must be working as they also do motorola 1&2 for the marklin stud rail crowd. I for one hope this takes off and look forward to one day having a multi scale layout being controled with my legacy remote/phone and ipad.
I think the electronics have gotten to the point where one can put a loco on the tracks, and it will read or translate any control system out there!
Question: how long did Lionel own the HObbyline tooling? That berk looks like the body at least is directly from it.
Speaking of bluetooth and LionChief, anyone seen or heard about the multi-loco controller they promised for July? Will this operate the HO model(s) as well? Assume it would, but we'll probably have to wait and see.
El Classico posted:Question: how long did Lionel own the HObbyline tooling? That berk looks like the body at least is directly from it.
Pretty sure the Hobbyline tooling is LONG gone. I don't think dies cut in the 1950's will work in today's machinery anyway.
Let's be real here. Lionel has had data files for the NKP Berk for quite some time and has staff that knows how to work them for various products.
Plus, the Hobbyline Berk had free standing handrails.
The Lionel Berk from the video:
Rusty
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HO: Mighty big market with a totally different mind-set than exists in O-3r.
1 year after release, Lionel will know:
* If this is yet another one of their stupid ideas.
* If it was a stroke of genius and they should have done it sooner.
Time will tell.
Until then it's all mere speculation on our part.
Andre
Another point to consider for those questioning the logic of this item. In years gone by, most of us had train layouts that were "our" layouts even though dad built them for us, and even probably ran trains too. Today, those kids are grown up and they are us. Now the layouts are OURS and we let the kids play on our layout. I've read many posts right here on this forum, of guys buying a starter set, being that will be the kid's train to run on dad's layout.
I was wondering who Lionel thought would be the target audience for an HO Polar express train. I don't see HO enthusiasts purchasing one of these trains for themselves.
And I don't see folks purchasing one to go under the Christmas tree. I think the inexpensive large scale or "O" gauge ones are more likely to fill that market.
I guess their market will be largely the same as the market for HO gauge Thomas the Tank engine trains.
The HO community will reject it. So it will be the train set buyers that will make or break this new adventure.
