Lionel "Fast Track" upgrade for traditional O gauge tube track?

Fastrack is the right choice for a carpet layout.  It can get stepped on, kicked, whatever and it holds up just fine.  I have 350-400 feet of it incorporated into my home.  It nestles down into carpet to self deaden the sound, but I run at scale speeds anyway so sound isn't really an issue compared to how fast some postwar guys run their trains.  Here's a video of the first half of the main layout. The other half in the library wasn't filmed.   This track is about 8 years old.  

Noise was my only objection to Fastrack (I went with Atlas on my layout). However, if you are using it on carpet I would say it should be just fine. I think it's a very well engineered and thought out track system. Also has some great additions they have made to it like the sensor track, command control switches and the plug and play accessories.

I switched from O'Gauge Tube track to Fastrack a few years back because of carpet fibers getting into my engines and cars.  The problems I have had with Fastrack are connectivity issues which never end. I run all command control engines with isolatated power track sections and some sections tend to have power issues because of the shifting of the track on the carpet.  Bending the center pin inward sometimes helps with connectivity and the settling of the track into the carpet over time helps too.  However, one night my trains can run great but the next night I might have connectivity issues again...needing pull cerain sections apart to make sure it is firmly connected to fix the connectivity issues.  I have used binding clips to better keep the tracks joined together but problems still persist.    Fastrack also gets very dirty...more than tube track.  I have had some minor rusting with some of my pieces.  However, I like the command control switches and the different lengths of straight track from small 1 3/8 inch to larger 30 inch sections which offers a lot of flexibility.  

Volphin posted:

Here's a video of the first half of the main layout. The other half in the library wasn't filmed. 

 

Time for an upgrade of that locomotive.   The only problem is getting the smoke out of the sofa.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Volphin posted:

Here's a video of the first half of the main layout. The other half in the library wasn't filmed. 

 

Time for an upgrade of that locomotive.   The only problem is getting the smoke out of the sofa.

or turning off the smoke detectors !  

Jeff,

A while back I worked at a local train shop and anyone who asked about setting up a "temporary" layout whether it be on a hard surface or carpet we would always recommend FasTrak over tubular because of its ability to stay together and not be susceptible to dipping as the engine crossed the joints. I do not think you will be disappointed.

Mike

Thanks for your collective comments so far.  No one has addressed the issue of keeping my Lionel 154 Crossing Signal working.  I have looked at dealer's selling Fast Track but have not found anything that is compatible?

In my opinion, Fastrack is great for carpet layouts.

Please read the following post regarding the crossing signal:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ly=44651685457964883

A simple insulated rail and the Dallee #367 will solve the problem of the crossing signal.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Volphin posted:

Here's a video of the first half of the main layout. The other half in the library wasn't filmed. 

 

Time for an upgrade of that locomotive.   The only problem is getting the smoke out of the sofa.

LOL. I had the smoke unit set to "off".  It's nowhere near your super chuffer though!

That's an MTH fan driven smoke unit, I use them for many of my upgrades.

Jeff, did you see my post about the Dallee controller for the #154 crossing signal?

GUNRUNNERJOHN, Yes, I did.  Going to go to my local hobby shop and get an initial issue of fast track today!!! 

Thanks again to all those who responded.

Well folks I spent nearly a $200 bill on fast track and had the most frustrating 2 hours I have ever experienced with model trains.  Once assembled into a figure 8 I had nothing but connectivity problems.  I fiddled around looking for any obvious problems and found none.  Clearly two or more joints were bad at any given time to provide an open loop and stop the train.  The loco would pass a track joint and stop.  Press the joint down or lift it slightly and magically the loco would move.  Some fast track joints were actually hot indicating some internal arching.  I reconfigured my track into an oval with no joy.    There is simply no explanation.    I finally gave up in disgust. 

Jeff Noll posted:

Well folks I spent nearly a $200 bill on fast track and had the most frustrating 2 hours I have ever experienced with model trains.  Once assembled into a figure 8 I had nothing but connectivity problems.  I fiddled around looking for any obvious problems and found none.  Clearly two or more joints were bad at any given time to provide an open loop and stop the train.  The loco would pass a track joint and stop.  Press the joint down or lift it slightly and magically the loco would move.  Some fast track joints were actually hot indicating some internal arching.  I reconfigured my track into an oval with no joy.    There is simply no explanation.    I finally gave up in disgust. 

Using a small transformer would explain it. Using the FasTrack feeder wire would explain it. Not enough amperage can flow.

Bad luck and getting a large batch of this production run would explain it. Fix it link  The bend is only a 1/16th of an inch so.

Sorry to hear that you had that bad of an experience. Use a meter or lighted car to find the bad joints.

I never been a fan of Fastrack, But with that said, in your instance I probably would of recommended it also. What Carl say's sounds like a fix for you. Not a fan of MTH preformed track either. ( heard a lot have had problems with the switches also ( they may have fixed that ( you always hear the bad and rarely the good) I'm old school O gauge and also Gargraves ( but neither are recommend for your use on carpet. 

Hope you can find a solution to your problem. When I do put it on the floor I have it on a board. ( but that may not be a option for you.

I had this issue several years ago when I bought m FastTrack.  Nothing but problems and pulling my hair out in total frustration.  I learned by bending the center pin inward with pliers helps with this issue but also using pliers squeeze the outer rail connection helps too as shown in the below video.  Also watch the video in the link above that Moonman provided.

Unfortunately, this will continually happen especially if pull your tracks apart often...you will need to check your pins.  This is the disadvantage of Fastrack.  It does get better as the track settles in the carpet but can happen again because track shifts in the carpet as the train runs over it.  Be careful, as explained in the video above the pins can break and you have to replace them from another piece of Fastrack.  

I use zip ties and paper "mini-binder" clips to hold my fastrack pieces together. I found small zip ties at AC Moore that fit through the provided screw holes well (& connect them underneath & then trim what's visible on the top of the track as is appropriate).   Both approaches have their pros and cons -- but greatly improve the consistent connectivity of the track (for those of use that don't have a fixed layout).  The biggest downside is the upfront time to get it all together -- which is proportional to how much track is being used as well.  

After that I've taken to crimping the ends of connected track pieces with pliers...  this has proven to be necessary every time I've put up some track.

Another thing I noticed is it seems helpful to have crossovers or switches that connect various larger sections together -- basically more connectivity points helps the current to flow more consistently.

Finally one can jumper minor or major portions of the layout using wire and the provided tines on the underside of most fastrack pieces to some other location in the layout.   One can jump track to track or from some kind of break out "box" ... either way, over time one can get current everywhere for sure with this method.

However, all this taken together is a huge pain in the backside.   Given that I've taken to the items described in order to avoid one or more of them.

I've had success!   At the moment I've two large interconnected loops, zip tied together that are about 20 ft wide... with a few mini-clips here and there, and ...   

Once set up I've supplied it with one and only one wire from the transformer... and for weeks now I've been running two diesels in opposite directions with maybe 10 or so box cars each ...  and no issues!

Anyway, all fine and good -- but what I'd really like is something even better...

Gentlemen,

   Got to admit I am hooked on FasTrack, especially the CC switches with no wiring, controlled directly from the Legacy Hand Held or even run from track side controller.  Simply fantastic Lionel Engineering that I have waited for all my life.  The 1st and 2nd generation FT is still the best FasTrack available.

PCRR/Dave

Some FTCC Switches on last years Christmas layout!

I have done my I/N research on Fast Track problems but it absolutely is inconceivable that Lionel, a stalwart in this hobby, would market a product that is so integral to our trains that is also so problematic.   A piece of track that you pay ~$5 for cannot be slipped together (like their tube track) and result in nearly problem free operation?  One needs to get out a meter and pliers to make it work?  Really?  What if I were 12 years old instead of 66 and a retired electronics engineer?   There is absolutely no excuse for this.  Since Lionel has videos on Fast Track pins and resulting connectivity they know about it.  Do they plan on ever fixing it?

I may give it another try today bending pins and checking continuity but this is no way to run a railroad.  We are having a few hot August days in So. Cal. and my hobby room does not have A/C (No joy here).   BTW I am using a Lionel KW power supply.

O31 track clips can help the situation if you can finf them.

O31 might stay together by using those wire wraps you can buy at various places!

A lot of people put FT together wrong as well.  For best results, it is imperative that the track only be wiggled slightly from side to side, gently sliding the sections together.  Some folks come at the connection in the form of a V which can distort and bend the track ends.  I have noticed the newer FT has a tendency to snap the center pin or a common pin.  The earlier FT did not have this issue.  Are you trying to run the layout from a single track connection?  That can be problematic. 

All track installed on a layout should undergo a continuity test regardless of brand.  It is simply best practice.  Oh, and the Lionel 4 way 90 degree crossover is a notable bear regading connectivity.  I have a brand new one that was whack right out the blister pack.

Yes, I only have a single track connection.  However that said, I only have a figure 8.  No switches.  Excuse my choice of words but assembling track should be idiot proof.  This is as simple of circuitry one can imagine.  It is too hot today to screw around trying to get my track going (I did actually have it running before it just quit).  

It's somewhat of a mystery, at least to me, why you're having that much trouble with Fastrack.  I put down about 75-80 feet of Fastrack in my Solarium every Christmas. I do tweak the center rail pin slightly, and give the outside rails a little gentle squeeze to tighten them up, then I just lay it down.  The entire run has two power drops on opposite sides of the big loop, and I have no power drop issues.

The vintage of my Fastrack is from new manufacture to the old stuff that has the blackened center rail, I just it interchangeably.

Jeff Noll posted:

 

I may give it another try today bending pins and checking continuity but this is no way to run a railroad.  We are having a few hot August days in So. Cal. and my hobby room does not have A/C (No joy here).   BTW I am using a Lionel KW power supply.

why not just join a club and runs trains there?

lots of a/c  at our club.

As to mysteries - I never had one problem with my old style Lionel tube track connectivity even up to the point when the track came apart as a loco was moving over it.   To recap this thread, my problem was running heavy scale locos on my carpet layout.  My expectations were that by carefully assembling a figure 8 with brand new Fast Track I could eliminate the track heaving experienced with the tube track (which it did) but never did I expect the ensuing electrical nonsense I experienced.   I  do not believe my expectations for this product were too high.  Something which should have taken me 30 minutes to set-up turned into a very frustrating experience.  I will not reiterate what I wrote previously but simply state again, Fast Track should be able to be simply assembled by child's mother or father and not result in a disappointing experience to a kid.  Nothing about it is complex but in my opinion it poorly electrically engineered and/or manufactured.

As to joining a train club to run my trains - I have always preferred to have the ability to run my trains at home. 

Tomorrow I am going to reassemble my figure 8 tweaking pins, pinching rails and performing a multi-meter continuity test on each rail joint.  It is my hope that once I get this running it will stay running and I will not experience what another responder to this thread documented with his track working one night and not the next day, ("The problems I have had with Fastrack are connectivity issues which never end.") 

I sincerely hope someone from Lionel is reading this thread.

Jeff Noll posted:

I have done my I/N research on Fast Track problems but it absolutely is inconceivable that Lionel, a stalwart in this hobby, would market a product that is so integral to our trains that is also so problematic.   A piece of track that you pay ~$5 for cannot be slipped together (like their tube track) and result in nearly problem free operation?  One needs to get out a meter and pliers to make it work?  Really?  What if I were 12 years old instead of 66 and a retired electronics engineer?   There is absolutely no excuse for this.  Since Lionel has videos on Fast Track pins and resulting connectivity they know about it.  Do they plan on ever fixing it?

I may give it another try today bending pins and checking continuity but this is no way to run a railroad.  We are having a few hot August days in So. Cal. and my hobby room does not have A/C (No joy here).   BTW I am using a Lionel KW power supply.

Jeff, I don't think anyone has ever had this type of experience. Perhaps a track or so. Most of the time there is a user created issue. Hence, the suggestions to troubleshoot with tools.

I have to agree with you - if a user can't take the FasTrack and put it together and run trains - then the product would not sell.

Many have not had that experience - only an occasional track problem here and there.

I would seriously consider returning the product to the vendor where it was purchased and buy from another vendor.

The product is not that complicated and there have not been that many pieces produced that are problematic.

Having played with tubular for years and can't make FasTrack work sounds like B/S.

Check forum member Max Railroad's YouTube channel. Started when under 12 years old and has no issues with FasTrack and has a large layout with command control and automated accessories.

For what it's worth -- I've had two broken "tangs" -- the little metal bits that protrude from the sheet metal rails on the ends of the track -- that to me were "out of the box".  Once I figured this out, I just made a jumper from the underside of tracks to get power ... (or the other case I replaced the broken bit from a lesser used track... an email to lionel said they don't carry the stuff as individual parts)

Anyway, my simplistic advice is to run conventional engine around on low power to try to determine the dead spots & work through the problem ... basically what I did.

I've several hundred feet of the stuff and put it in a number of different ways the last the few years.  I criticize it but its for improving, not tearing it apart.  

I do plan to buy more of it for all the issues.  I think it's a good product actually overall but I want it to be even better...

Some years ago my wife gave me a Harry Potter Hogwarts Express set that came with fast track. I noticed the same problems of connectivity so I had to carefully push together each piece, a problem I never had with tubular O gauge track which you can set up in almost half the time.  It's less of a problem if you set it up on a permanent basis as I did in my layout  (I use it on an elevated line).  I should mention that I have replaced most of my tubular tracks with the K-line snap tracks which have their own problem of joining tracks but look more realistic.

John

I like FT so far its been noise, electrical problems, dirty rails, and its a foot above my head when I stand up.  I just last week reinstalled my track  I cleaned track before, reclipped it, added new main 14ga. wire, and 16ga. feeder wire every 2-3rd track this might be excessive, and may not use all. I used a glass fuse strip between my ZW and buss wire, and bundled all wires together. Nicer look so far, not quite finished yet. I will test as connect feeders, with good planning I don't expect any issues. Feeder wires  and clips, they will cure most problems. I made my feeder wires. 

Moonman posted:

Jeff Noll posted:

Well folks I spent nearly a $200 bill on fast track and had the most frustrating 2 hours I have ever experienced with model trains.  Once assembled into a figure 8 I had nothing but connectivity problems.  I fiddled around looking for any obvious problems and found none.  Clearly two or more joints were bad at any given time to provide an open loop and stop the train.  The loco would pass a track joint and stop.  Press the joint down or lift it slightly and magically the loco would move.  Some fast track joints were actually hot indicating some internal arching.  I reconfigured my track into an oval with no joy.    There is simply no explanation.    I finally gave up in disgust. 

Using a small transformer would explain it. Using the FasTrack feeder wire would explain it. Not enough amperage can flow.

Bad luck and getting a large batch of this production run would explain it. Fix it link  The bend is only a 1/16th of an inch so.

Sorry to hear that you had that bad of an experience. Use a meter or lighted car to find the bad joints.

 

Moonman offers some practical solutions that really go a long way to solving the problem. Just one point of clarification.

The lack of amperage is only an issue if the train is coming to a stop because the transformer has gone into overload. In other words, the power draw of the train can exceed the available volume of electricity, forcing the transformer's breaker to open to avoid damage.

Using a common analogy, amps would be the volume of water flowing through a pipe, and the water pressure would be the voltage.

If you are running one train set level locomotive on a large layout, you can use a train set level transformer, such as a CW-80, to your heart's content as long as you provide enough feeder wires (16 gauge or larger) to maintain the voltage level. Again, amperage represents the volume of electricity available. Voltage is the flow.

The problems being discussed here have to do with that center pin on FasTrack. I have experienced similar problems on carpet layouts for Christmas. A little tweaking, like gunrunnerjohn suggests (and the use of small binding clips, and an chemical electrical conductor such as DeoxIT DN5 on the center pin, as he has suggested in the past), takes care of the problem.

Every track system has varying problems with re-use, but FasTrack can have problems fresh out of the package if the track is put together incorrectly.

I plan on using FasTrack on a larger permanent layout in the future. I will test every joint on installation and include plenty of feeder wires from a bus system -- at least every 10 feet. And, of course, using a decent power supply to make sure there is enough power to handle higher amp draws of big locomotives.

All, thank you for your insightful feedback.  I put my track back together, metered each connection, and had a test run.  I am providing my final "Hot Wash-up" on my Fastrack.   My father would be happy I still could use my BS degree in electrical engineering after putting me through a university albeit over 40 years ago.

Each connection was metered inner and out rails.

Curves O31 - no connectivity issues (out of 12 pieces)

Straights 10" - one center pin issue (out of 8 pieces)

Straights 5" - 4 center pin and one outer rail (out of 8 pieces)

Straights 1 3/4" - all pieces had issues both inner and outer rails (out of 4 pieces)

Crossover - no issue

I do know there is no way to determine which side of a connection is the culprit in an open circuit condition.  My conclusion is based on the fact that there were no problems on any connections of curves to curves or 10" straights.  There were 5 problems  with a 5" straight connected to 10" straight or curve.  There were problems with all 4 of the 1 3/4" straights when connected between the crossover, a 10 inch straight or curve.  With the 1 3/4" pieces I reversed them and re-seated.  Virtually all of them had very wide outer rail openings.  The problem resolved with pinching the outer rail and tweaking the center pin.  It is my assumption that  the 5 " and 1 3/4" straights were the source of my problems.

Let the wheels turn once more!

"Fastrack are connectivity issues which never end."

This was my experience  also.I had a large transformer,a small layout and it just didn't work as advertised.Looking at the great ,nice, large layouts here I thought Fastrack would be a great choice.I've run tubular track for years with out these problems.Old wore out track that you adjust a tad ,put it together and run your trains...Tried the adjustments for the Fastrack with no luck...I did some research and it seems Lionel has put out some bad batches..I returned the track and have been running fine since..

Rusty

3 years ago I laid almost 200 feet of Fastrack when I was forced to rebuild my layout, and have not had one continuity, connectivity or electrical issue that I can recall.  I have read and seen the videos about pinching the outside/inside rails and bending the center pin.

If I do have any issue I know the first thing to try, or when I rebuild my layout again (which I inevitably will), as a precautionary measure I will pinch and bend as I assemble the track.

I have a lot of Fastrack. One thing I have found is that it is almost impossible to take it apart by hand and not put an angle on the pins, especially the outer ones. That leads to making it loose for the next time you put it back together. When I take track apart, I always use a utility blade to separate the sections as parallel as I can. A table knife also works, but the sharp knife is easier to get it started. I have over 2 scale miles of mainline, 10 sidings, and 22 switches  without connectivity problems. Some of the track has been on 3 layouts starting 10 years ago, and rearranged on each one of them many times. There are 22 blocks wired as per Barry's book for DCS, and the DCS works great.