I bought a new weathered Legacy 2-10-4 Pennsylvania J1a and I have the older Legacy J1a and the whistles are radically different. The new one sounds like the H-10 whistle and the Atlantic whistle. Do I have to listen to Thomas the Tank while running this brute? Is it just mine that has this problem or did Lionel change the sound board on the new one?
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People complained (myself included) and Lionels response was it has the correct whistle 
No idea why they wouldn't use the awesome 3 chime recording they have and instead used the little Banshee switcher whistle.
Canceled my order unfortunately
Thanks! I wish I would have known before I bought this engine. I wouldn't have purchased it. How do potential buyers find these things out before they purchase?
Surefire posted:People complained (myself included) and Lionels response was it has the correct whistle
No idea why they wouldn't use the awesome 3 chime recording they have and instead used the little Banshee switcher whistle.
Canceled my order unfortunately
The PRR class J1 2-10-4s did NOT have the "banshee" freight whistle. There are enough historic recordings available to prove that.
I held off on ordering this engine because the first Legacy version didn’t sound as proper as the original TMCC one (which I love dearly). They somehow managed to make this newest one sound even worse. Good grief. It’s funny how a lame whistle absolutely kills an otherwise decent engine.
Larry Nuzzaci posted:How do potential buyers find these things out before they purchase?
Youtube
Yep, YouTube is the best way to research this stuff nowadays.
Norm Charbonneau posted:Yep, YouTube is the best way to research this stuff nowadays.
Absolutely... check out the whistle just past the 9:00 mark from a great DVD series
Larry Nuzzaci posted:Thanks! I wish I would have known before I bought this engine. I wouldn't have purchased it. How do potential buyers find these things out before they purchase?
Well, there was a lot of discussion about the high pitched whistle on this very forum when this engine came out not long ago! Sorry you missed it.
You didn't also buy the new N&W Class J did you? Lots of talk about that stripe screw up! If you did, there is not much time left to send it off for a remedy!
Keystone posted:Norm Charbonneau posted:Yep, YouTube is the best way to research this stuff nowadays.
Absolutely... check out the whistle just past the 9:00 mark from a great DVD series
Sounds like the standard PRR "passenger" whistle I remember as a kid, on the PRR K4s locomotives on the New York & Long Branch RR.
I hear your disappointment regarding the whistle.
I bought the USRA Pacific 6-85170 - Atlanta and West Point 290 in the 2018 catalog C1 Big Book. Didn't know it had the same whistle as my VL Big Boy and FEF-3.
On Youtube, I heard the whistle for the USRA Pacific 6-85172 - Blue Reading and Northern 425 (same page in catalog) and liked it better; so, ordered its sound card and replaced the card in the Atlanta and West Point. Happier with that - such blasphemy! $79. If I realize the error of my ways, I can always go back - 
.
Norm Charbonneau posted:Yep, YouTube is the best way to research this stuff nowadays.
I don't quite agree with that statement when it comes to the sound side of things. Many soundtracks have been dubbed in and you can't be sure of what you are getting.
I should have mentioned I use YouTube to hear what the models sound like. There are very few vintage vids with proper audio.
Here’s my TMCC one on my layout:
Norm Charbonneau posted:I should have mentioned I use YouTube to hear what the models sound like. There are very few vintage vids with proper audio.
Thats what I was getting at in my original post as well.
Sometimes, one must do a bit of homework to make sure they are viewing the correct version as Lionel has had multiple runs.
If the model info isn't in the title the upload date will often tell you which release it is. Folks often shoot videos of their new locomotive shortly after they receive it.
Every Loco I've ever purchased was viewed on YouTube prior.
There’s some cool whistle vids where guys are lighting off vintage whistles at steam festivals. Here’s one:
Keystone posted:Norm Charbonneau posted:Yep, YouTube is the best way to research this stuff nowadays.
Absolutely... check out the whistle just past the 9:00 mark from a great DVD series
Do we know that this video's sound is not dubbed? Common - even typical - to do this, as most "amateur" film was not sound film back then.
Just wondering. I've got no dog in this fight.
The audio on this particular video is absolutely dubbed, however, it does not make the sound incorrect or correct, only that it was added from another source later (post production).
The quality and accuracy is still up for the experts to discuss.
Charlie
Norm Charbonneau posted:Here’s my TMCC one on my layout:
Jeez Norm, I could watch your videos all day, just great modeling AND photography/video. Thanks again for sharing.
Charlie
Charlie posted:Norm Charbonneau posted:Here’s my TMCC one on my layout:
Jeez Norm, I could watch your videos all day, just great modeling AND photography/video. Thanks again for sharing.
Charlie
I agree.
RickM46 posted:I hear your disappointment regarding the whistle.
I bought the USRA Pacific 6-85170 - Atlanta and West Point 290 in the 2018 catalog C1 Big Book. Didn't know it had the same whistle as my VL Big Boy and FEF-3.
On Youtube, I heard the whistle for the USRA Pacific 6-85172 - Blue Reading and Northern 425 (same page in catalog) and liked it better; so, ordered its sound card and replaced the card in the Atlanta and West Point. Happier with that - such blasphemy! $79. If I realize the error of my ways, I can always go back -
How did you order just the sound card?
Charlie posted:The audio on this particular video is absolutely dubbed, however, it does not make the sound incorrect or correct, only that it was added from another source later (post production).
Note that this is a Herron Rail Video production, and has footage AND sound from Mr. Don Koftra (sp), who was famous for taking movies and sound recordings of many steam operations in the mid to late 1950s. In some cases, he even took 16MM sound movies, with optical sound, live and synchronized with the film. The Herron Rail products are the best on the market for vintage steam action.
The quality and accuracy is still up for the experts to discuss.
Yes, this production is accurate, as Mr. Herron is a stickler for accuracy and top quality productions. Also, having heard many PRR steam locomotives myself, and can verify that those PRR locomotives are correct.
Charlie
I searched the internet for the latest Lionel PRR J1A model to hear the whistle and only could find the older releases.
Paul Kallus posted:I searched the internet for the latest Lionel PRR J1A model to hear the whistle and only could find the older releases.
This one comes up on the top of the list on youtube: https://youtu.be/UjVfMmFO3jY
RickO posted:Paul Kallus posted:I searched the internet for the latest Lionel PRR J1A model to hear the whistle and only could find the older releases.
This one comes up on the top of the list on youtube: https://youtu.be/UjVfMmFO3jY
And that is DEFINITELY the wrong whistle for a PRR J1 2-10-4!!!!!
I have the same J1a and questioned Ryan from Lionel at Trainfest in Milwaukee last fall. He said the whistle is correct is according to their research, and was used on the early build engines that were later converted to the whistle we expect it to be. Knowing that it becomes much more enjoyable.
jim911 posted:I have the same J1a and questioned Ryan from Lionel at Trainfest in Milwaukee last fall. He said the whistle is correct is according to their research,
Obviously they didn't do proper research, nor ask anyone from the PRR Technical & Historical Society.
and was used on the early build engines that were later converted to the whistle we expect it to be. Knowing that it becomes much more enjoyable.
That guy did a nice job on the vid. Lionel should suck it up and offer a fix for that whistle. This should have been a no-brainer for me to order but I just knew they'd manage to blow it somehow.
We discussed this whistle issue last October when the latest J1's came out. I posted correct information at the time in this thread:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...tle-follow-up?page=1
My post is second from the top. The latest whistle sound file used by Lionel is just plain wrong. "Their research" which was shared at Trainfest is faulty.
There really is NO EXCUSE for getting things wrong with PRR locomotives. The Modeling Committee of the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society is ready, willing and able to help any model train manufacturer on a free and confidential basis. Several manufacturers in HO and N-scale use the committee. Lionel relies on "their research" and we get cr*p like this.
Well gentlemen, Lionel has finally gotten back to me regarding the J1a. It seems that everyone participating in this discussion was right but here's what they said to me.
Quote:
| 5:00 PM (1 hour ago) | |||
| ||||
Larry,
Our sources state that the PRR Banshee Whistle, which was their standard freight locomotive whistle, was used on the J1. This would be the same as the H10 and other freight locomotives on the railroad, so that is what was used on this production run as it was historically correct. As this is how the engine was produced, there would be no modifications that we can offer. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.
Thank you,
Thanks to Rick for posting that video...very well done review by Chris in that video.
Larry Nuzzaci posted:Well gentlemen, Lionel has finally gotten back to me regarding the J1a. It seems that everyone participating in this discussion was right but here's what they said to me.
Quote:
Talk To US
5:00 PM (1 hour ago)
to me
Larry,
Our sources state that the PRR Banshee Whistle, which was their standard freight locomotive whistle, was used on the J1.
Well obviously they need to consult new, and better, "sources"! It is odd that nobody at Lionel ever contacted the PRR Technical and Historical Society, which one think would be the VERY FIRST source of ANY and ALL information pertaining to ANYTHING PRR.
This would be the same as the H10 and other freight locomotives on the railroad, so that is what was used on this production run as it was historically correct.
Again,,,,,,,,,nope!
As this is how the engine was produced, there would be no modifications that we can offer. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.
Thank you,
Trainlover9943 posted:RickM46 posted:I hear your disappointment regarding the whistle.
I bought the USRA Pacific 6-85170 - Atlanta and West Point 290 in the 2018 catalog C1 Big Book. Didn't know it had the same whistle as my VL Big Boy and FEF-3.
On Youtube, I heard the whistle for the USRA Pacific 6-85172 - Blue Reading and Northern 425 (same page in catalog) and liked it better; so, ordered its sound card and replaced the card in the Atlanta and West Point. Happier with that - such blasphemy! $79. If I realize the error of my ways, I can always go back -
How did you order just the sound card?
Matt, I went to Lionel Parts site on the internet - https://www.lionelsupport.com/ReplacementParts/; filled in the locomotive model number 6-85172 (USRA Pacific 6-85172 - Blue Reading and Northern 425), and got the parts list for the locomotive; found the part number for its lite sound card - 691RSL3516, $79: called Lionel to order it - showed up about 7 business days later; swapped it with the original sound card in the tender; you have to note where each of the plugs go into the original sound card and find their sockets in the new sound card.
Norm Charbonneau posted:I held off on ordering this engine because the first Legacy version didn’t sound as proper as the original TMCC one (which I love dearly). They somehow managed to make it sound even worse. Good grief. It’s funny how a lame whistle absolutely kills an otherwise decent engine.
Hey Norm,
I said I'd do some digging and I found two J1 whistle recordings from back in the days of Right of Way. They are unaltered, not resampled, .wav files direct from the audio tape. So the question of the hour is can a .wav file be posted as an attachment to a reply on this forum??? Maybe Alan Arnold could help out. Otherwise I can just send them to you as an attachment to an email.
Where's Rudy when we need him?
Lou N
It is really odd for them to get a whistle wrong on something that you would figure should be common knowledge given Ryan's background. However there was the GS locomotive that had the wrong whistle as stated by some on the forum so bit ago.
I do have a question about whistles in general. Would ever locomotive produced say the J1a for example, have the same whistle for every engine produced of that run(meaning real locomotives naturally) or would there be variations?
I would naturally expect that whistles would be replaced over time as they would wear or perhaps get gunked up. Would they replace it with the same or whatever happen to be available that fit the bill as it were, guessing some whistles could only go on certain locomotives?
Lou, I’m pretty sure you can attach them to your post.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It is really odd for them to get a whistle wrong on something that you would figure should be common knowledge given Ryan's background. However there was the GS locomotive that had the wrong whistle as stated by some on the forum so bit ago.
I do have a question about whistles in general. Would ever locomotive produced say the J1a for example, have the same whistle for every engine produced of that run(meaning real locomotives naturally)
Yes. Whistle manufacturers were given a set of specifications & drawings for each customer, and the main whistle casting was/were produced in volume. The PRR especially had very specific :standards" for everything.
or would there be variations?
No.
I would naturally expect that whistles would be replaced over time as they would wear or perhaps get gunked up.
Yes. whistles could, and did, receive "rebuilding" and cleaning, back in the shop. Whistle components that were too badly worn, i.e. steam cut, had those components replaced.
Would they replace it with the same
Yes.
or whatever happen to be available that fit the bill as it were,
Rarely would that have been done.
guessing some whistles could only go on certain locomotives?
Correct.
Hot Water posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It is really odd for them to get a whistle wrong on something that you would figure should be common knowledge given Ryan's background. However there was the GS locomotive that had the wrong whistle as stated by some on the forum so bit ago.
I do have a question about whistles in general. Would ever locomotive produced say the J1a for example, have the same whistle for every engine produced of that run(meaning real locomotives naturally)
Yes. Whistle manufacturers were given a set of specifications & drawings for each customer, and the main whistle casting was/were produced in volume. The PRR especially had very specific :standards" for everything.
or would there be variations?
No.
I would naturally expect that whistles would be replaced over time as they would wear or perhaps get gunked up.
Yes. whistles could, and did, receive "rebuilding" and cleaning, back in the shop. Whistle components that were too badly worn, i.e. steam cut, had those components replaced.
Would they replace it with the same
Yes.
or whatever happen to be available that fit the bill as it were,
Rarely would that have been done.
guessing some whistles could only go on certain locomotives?
Correct.
Thanks Hot Water. The BR&W's #60 recently got a new whistle on it which is completely different both in sound(higher pitch) and look. I don't know the design of it but it looks bigger than what it had.
Prototype Pennsy J1a audio on this video starting at the :50 mark, the whistle can be heard at 1:11
In 2011 Lionel cataloged the Texas engines. I do not remember any issues with the whistle (Part # 691RSL1017) but maybe someone who has either of the two PRR engines offered can comment on the whistle. If you own the 2019 J1a version and are dissatisfied with the sounds I would recommend calling Lionel service to see if the 2011 sound board is a swap in with the 2019 sound board (Part # 691RSL3724). I do not do repairs because I have ten thumbs. If you have the same condition you could check with Alex M or GRJ if they could do the swap (If it is doable). Maybe if. You are polite and pleasant when speaking to Lionel they will swap out the part. The 2019 part is listed at $79, the 2011 part says to contact Lionel. At that time I think if you had a defective Legacy sound board you had to send Lionel your defective board and they would send you a replacement.
I have the TMCC J1a engine and love the whistle. I also have the Legacy H10 and love that whistle too. Don’t know if I would like it in a J1a though.
JohnB
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