Lionel Legacy J1a whistle

Hot Water posted:

RickO posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

I searched the internet for the latest Lionel PRR J1A model to hear the whistle and only could find the older releases.

This one comes up on the top of the list on youtube: https://youtu.be/UjVfMmFO3jY

And that is DEFINITELY the wrong whistle for a PRR J1 2-10-4!!!!!

I missed watching this yesterday and all I can say is "Wow?" That sounds like the B6's whistle, or close to it. I guess I won't blow the whistle on mine then, may confuse people into thinking a Switcher is coming down the tracks.

On another note, was the operation of the cylinder steam changed with this engine? On my MILW S3 from 2010 the cylinder steam works whenever you pressed the blowdown button. Now it only works when the engine begins moving after sitting for a while. I'm aware this operation is more prototypical but it takes away from the play value of the engine. 

You can also add me to the group of those dissatisfied with the whistle. It's silly seeing this beast of an engine roar down the tracks and then squeak like a mouse at a railroad crossing.

Hard to believe the difference in sound. Here is Eric's video from the earlier Legacy version, what a difference.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cpaJzoMoE8Q

If you aren't satisfied with the sound of the whistle you can always order a new sound board from Lionel from an existing engine that is equipped with the RailSound-lite Board. Probably either from the 2010 version.

You may not get the cylinder steam sounds though..... if you order from another engine that isn't equipped with that feature.... Which your selection is limited.

I wish Lionel had the ability to change sound files like MTH. Then this would be easy/free. 

I've had some issues with the whistle or bell sound MTH has used in their files. I just use this program to correct it: http://www.silogic.com/trains/ADPCM.html

No having to buy new sound boards. Change the whistle or bell to something you like better and upload it to the locomotive. Done. 

Attached is an unaltered PRR J1a whistle.

Lou N

Thanks Lou. I'm sending this one back to TRAINZ.

Lou1985 posted:

I wish Lionel had the ability to change sound files like MTH. Then this would be easy/free. 

I've had some issues with the whistle or bell sound MTH has used in their files. I just use this program to correct it: http://www.silogic.com/trains/ADPCM.html

No having to buy new sound boards. Change the whistle or bell to something you like better and upload it to the locomotive. Done. 

This is why DCC is the future, you can do all of that and more in DCC. Hence why i'm slowly converting my older TMCC locos.

Lou, thanks for posting that! 

FWIW, the first J1a reissue with Legacy has that generic raspy whistle Lionel spams into everything. Bell is generic too. The TMCC one still sounds the best. 

That is awesome Lou, thanks for posting as well.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Lou, thanks for posting that! 

FWIW, the first J1a reissue with Legacy has that generic raspy whistle Lionel spams into everything. Bell is generic too. The TMCC one still sounds the best. 

I totally agree with you. I forgot how bad that whistle was on the 2010 version. I think the closes whistle they had was on the Legacy LionMaster T1. 

Lionel actually had a lot of fairly proper PRR sound sets in the TMCC RS4.0 era. The J1a, M1a, H9 Consol and even the K4 and-a-halfs were really good. Later on, the Lionmaster T1 was pretty good too. I collected a stash of these for future upgrades and swaps. 

With all the complaints throughout the years.....I’m really surprised and not at the same time Lionel will not let us choose our sound files. With this current generation of electronics its possible to re-flash the soundboard. I have had to see so many customers at our dealer return their Legacy Lionel locomotives throughout the years because of the sounds that were chosen for that model were terrible.

I work on all the scales Z-G and installed various forms of after market sound systems in DCC. All sound decoders that are available from Soundtraxx, TCS, ESU, MRC, DigiTraxx are completely customize-able in function and sound types and volumes. TCS’s WowSounds Steam decoder has like 70 different whistles you can choose from that are actual recordings.

ESU has the best recordings of diesel prime movers you can get. They have around 4-5 different recordings for a 567 prime mover. I don’t even want get into the programing capabilities to customize the decoder function and individual sounds.... At least from MTH you can email them and they can send you a modified sound file.

Lionel was well know for their railsounds back in the day compared to all the scales and to be honest the only thing they have going for them today is the manually quill-able whistle/horn feature that's integrated into their remotes. 

Lionel could make easy money off the programmer/program to upgrade the individual files. They could focus on more individual and prototypical sound files/recordings. Heck they could even partner with one of the Decoder manufactures I mentioned above. 

They could even sell those sound files individually to us so they could make money off their hard work properly providing us with the correct sound recordings and bells. 

Of course you’ll have people (the consumer) that wont be able to handle the complexity of this. But that's why you have service stations and private individuals that can do these things for them. I’m not slamming Lionel, I just want them to be the best they can be. 

#moneymaker  #makelionelgreatagain

@Dave Olson

Hmm, with the newest catalog as far as the VL GS series, I believe Dave and or Ryan had stated in their FB review of the catalog that those contained the newest boards that you would be able to tweak the sounds themselves, set a certain pitch for the whistle and bell, and it would retain that in the engine. I'm only going off what they said, and I don't think anything else in that catalog out of the Legacy engines(though I may be mistaken, maybe the Reading engines) had the new boards. They indicated that this would be the future as the old boards were going out.

That being said, we can only wait and see what is going to happen. Do I think the whistle & bell tweaking would make the right whistle and bell for the engines, no idea. Only the finished product and trial and error would yield such things. It would be great if those that wanted to, could have a sit in secession with Dave to see the new boards and all they can do. Either that or they demonstrate them at the shows throughout the year as Dave will probably be working on other projects and not able to attend the shows.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hmm, with the newest catalog as far as the VL GS series, I believe Dave and or Ryan had stated in their FB review of the catalog that those contained the newest boards that you would be able to tweak the sounds themselves, set a certain pitch for the whistle and bell, and it would retain that in the engine. I'm only going off what they said, and I don't think anything else in that catalog out of the Legacy engines(though I may be mistaken, maybe the Reading engines) had the new boards. They indicated that this would be the future as the old boards were going out.

The new engines with the new boards will have 5 different whistles/horns that you can toggle thru,same with the bell.

Doug 

trnluvr posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hmm, with the newest catalog as far as the VL GS series, I believe Dave and or Ryan had stated in their FB review of the catalog that those contained the newest boards that you would be able to tweak the sounds themselves, set a certain pitch for the whistle and bell, and it would retain that in the engine. I'm only going off what they said, and I don't think anything else in that catalog out of the Legacy engines(though I may be mistaken, maybe the Reading engines) had the new boards. They indicated that this would be the future as the old boards were going out.

The new engines with the new boards will have 5 different whistles/horns that you can toggle thru,same with the bell.

Doug 

OK, but:

1) Will the various whistle "choices" be prototypically correct?

2) Will the bell operation be prototypically correct, i.e. NOT a "swinging bell" sound for steam locomotives equipped with stationary bells with just an internal air-ringer, like a diesel bell?

When one wrong whistle isn't enough, you can now have five! 

Jack,that's 1 question that Dave Olsen would have to answer. I'm only stating what was said on the Ryan&Dave show.

Doug

@Hot Water and that is the question, would they be prototypical? We're not going to know until they have one of the new engines to show off and go through all that. The only other way beside us getting one of these new engines is for Dave to pop in here and explain or explain elsewhere.

My guess is we'll be waiting for someone to show off the engines when they arrive assuming things get produced in a timely fashion, etc., etc.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

@Hot Water and that is the question, would they be prototypical? We're not going to know until they have one of the new engines to show off and go through all that. The only other way beside us getting one of these new engines is for Dave to pop in here and explain or explain elsewhere.

My guess is we'll be waiting for someone to show off the engines when they arrive assuming things get produced in a timely fashion, etc., etc.

Well, there is always the availability of the REAL SP GS-4, #4449, which now does have an ORIGINAL SP GS-4 whistle! It really would not be all that difficult for the folks at Lionel to coordinate with the Friends of SP4449, and schedule a "recording session" the next time 4449 is fired up. I would be more than happy to put Dave Olsen in touch directly with Doyle McCormack.

Surefire posted:

No idea why they wouldn't use the awesome 3 chime recording they have and instead used the little Banshee switcher whistle.

Not sure if this is the whistle you referring to, but my Pennsy favorite is the legacy m1b from 2008:

The legacy M1a also had a good whistle, more raw sounding than the m1b: https://youtu.be/FTtloB-OI5Q

Why couldn't either of these whistles  have made it into the J1A?

 On a side not the first legacy gs 4449 had the actual 4449 whistle, Subsequent GS models got a "kinda sorta" SP whistle.

How do they get it wrong.....on the second try?

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

That is awesome Lou, thanks for posting as well.

You all are very welcome.  I had a little help from Alan and Rich; I had no idea that a wav file would attach just as easily as a movie or photo.

Lou N

Glad you got it posted, Lou. That is a sweet-sounding whistle, and a very clean recording.

I posted about this issue when I first started to see reviews and videos of this engine as I had ordered one BTO.  Lionel stated to me that I had made the only complaint on this engine and that the whistle they put it in was the "prototypical" whistle decided on by Lionel engineers...everything else about the engine is fantastic but the whistle clearly does not fit, like not even close lol  I still love legacy steamers, but this engine was the last engine I will ever preorder unless Lionel releases the sounds beforehand as part of an interactive catalog.  Oh well! 

I was explaining this to a friend of mine the other day who knows how much of a train nut I am. I have told him there are certain things I know, and a whole bunch of stuff I don't. Talking about this, I said it was like having one of the English or European steam engines that have the really high pitched whistle when it should be a deep throaty type of whistle. The difference really is night and day and clearly not right. If they have a real example, I'm sure we would all like to see it, but guessing that unicorn won't pop up.

A.J. posted:

I posted about this issue when I first started to see reviews and videos of this engine as I had ordered one BTO.  Lionel stated to me that I had made the only complaint on this engine and that the whistle they put it in was the "prototypical" whistle decided on by Lionel engineers...everything else about the engine is fantastic but the whistle clearly does not fit, like not even close lol  I still love legacy steamers, but this engine was the last engine I will ever preorder unless Lionel releases the sounds beforehand as part of an interactive catalog.  Oh well! 

I wouldn't be surprised. Many people come here to complain and NEVER go to the source.  Folks need to learn that complaining here is NOT the solution.  Complaining to the manufacturer maynot be either but is better than here.

Why would you bother complaining to Lionel? They are just going to BS you anyway. Best thing to do is wait for something to come out and then see who puts it up on Youtube. 

And BTW, go on Youtube and look at the videos of companies like Rapido, Hornby, and Marklin. While Lionel hams it up with cutesy antics, these companies are actually engaging their customers and showing how serious they are about making superior products. It's actually very refreshing compared to the current state of O gauge.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Why would you bother complaining to Lionel? They are just going to BS you anyway.

Because not saying anything doesn't help anyone either.  

I don't know, I helped myself pretty good by not complaining, and more importantly by not buying! It's a win-win. Lionel doesn't have to hear from me (not that they'd care or do anything) and I don't have to subject myself to their obstinate behavior.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I don't know, I helped myself pretty good by not complaining, and more importantly by not buying! It's a win-win.

Except for that hudson with 5 chuffs LOL! 

We call it overchuff. It has 25% overchuff. 

I know that at last October's York a lot of people were talking to Ryan about their complaints with the recent releases that had come through just before York. While those were mostly addressed, it is still a good idea to at least have an open discussion with them on any level(as long as you aren't yelling).

As for this issue it really doesn't look like there is any room for us to get the whistle that we believe(and know) should be in there. I suppose we might as well got to the train store(or show or wherever) and pick up a wood whistle to blow(unless you already have one, I've got two myself). At least then it would sound hopefully close to what it is supposed to be.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

We call it overchuff. It has 25% overchuff. 

Good one Norm! 

This is the second post about the whistles on the latest Legacy J1a Pennsy engines, each one being about the same length about 2 pages. I do think Lionel listens when people who actually bought engines call or email them with their complaint. We on the forum are lucky that both Ryan and Dave post on the forum so you can easily obtain their work email address so if you bought a new Legacy J1a engine and do not like the whistle email them. They did come around on the NW J stripe issue. I think they could do a board switch out on these engines as long as enough people let them know. Oh by the way attach all the videos and sound files to you emails. Considering the 2010 Legacy J1a had a more acceptable whistle it should not take a big push to get this issue resolved. As I have said I have the TMCC version of the J1a upgraded by Alex M with a GRJ super chuffer and that’s all I need.

JohnB

Big Jim posted:

Norm Charbonneau posted:

We call it overchuff. It has 25% overchuff. 

Good one Norm! 

I'll bet you two chuffs they'd tell me it's right!

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Big Jim posted:

Norm Charbonneau posted:

We call it overchuff. It has 25% overchuff. 

Good one Norm! 

I'll bet you two chuffs they'd tell me it's right!

Thats "chuffing" rediculous!

It would be very helpful for both the consumer and the manufacturer/importer to post their new products online with as accurate dimensions, pictures, and planned sound sets via a simple click of the mouse, prior to pre-order due dates. In this time of built-to-order, for Lionel at least, this would enable sufficient feedback and changes before production, and a lot more contented customers.

RickO posted:

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I don't know, I helped myself pretty good by not complaining, and more importantly by not buying! It's a win-win.

Except for that hudson with 5 chuffs LOL! 

That's actually a spare chuff in case one goes flat...

Rusty

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Why would you bother complaining to Lionel? They are just going to BS you anyway. Best thing to do is wait for something to come out and then see who puts it up on Youtube. 

And BTW, go on Youtube and look at the videos of companies like Rapido, Hornby, and Marklin. While Lionel hams it up with cutesy antics, these companies are actually engaging their customers and showing how serious they are about making superior products. It's actually very refreshing compared to the current state of O gauge.

Norm,

Lionel keeps returning to Korea Brass for product.  And with Jon Z and Rudy gone, this is where I am hearing the electronics is coming from....

https://www.hktdc.com/sourcing...029BV8&locale=en

Believe me, there was nothing like an inspection trip to see Mr Cho at Ajin Precision to see a real professional operation.

Lou N

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Hot Water posted:

RickO posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

I searched the internet for the latest Lionel PRR J1A model to hear the whistle and only could find the older releases.

This one comes up on the top of the list on youtube: https://youtu.be/UjVfMmFO3jY

And that is DEFINITELY the wrong whistle for a PRR J1 2-10-4!!!!!

I missed watching this yesterday and all I can say is "Wow?" That sounds like the B6's whistle, or close to it. I guess I won't blow the whistle on mine then, may confuse people into thinking a Switcher is coming down the tracks.

It's exactly the same as the Legacy B6 whistle. I just put my new PRR J1 on the layout yesterday and was appalled by the wimpy whistle on such a huge engine. I am by no means an expert, but there is no way this whistle could be prototypically correct. It needs to be replaced. The whistle on my Legacy M1A Mountain is terrific. I wonder whether the sound board for an M1A could be subbed for the J1 board.

The current J1 whistle sounds nothing like the whistle on the earlier TMCC version of the J1 that Norm Charbonneau posted on his awesome video. I also have an MTH PRR Proto-3 J1, which also has a powerful whistle, although I'm not sure it is prototypically correct. I will try to post a video playing the whistles of both the Proto-3 and Legacy versions of the J1. 

Pat