Lionel Legacy L1 Mikado …Tales From Harmon Shops

Looks like this one will be taken apart. Can't wait to see what it looks like on the inside, even though I have a pretty good idea what the insides do look like.

Here’s a short video of Dave’s locomotive, after a quick lube service, and fired up right out of the box, ….turn the volume up to hear the noises,…..

Pat

Thanks Pat! That's all I needed. Return it is.

So here’s the observations as I’ve opened this new engine up, and had a chance to look around,…..first and foremost THERE’S NOW A PRETTY GENEROUS SPACER ON THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT!!!!……more on that in a minute, …I found no loose screws, and the wiring harnesses are the neatest I’ve seen on a lot of previous runs,….judge by the pics, the amount of grease is kinda lacking, IMO, but there is grease in the well, and on the gears,…..All & all, things look like they’ve improved this platform, it doesn’t answer why this engine is so noisy, or the one time jam up, but that’s what we’ll tackle next,…..So what I’ll do is clean all this grease out, Prussian blue these gears, and run a pattern,…..as I mentioned above, there’s clearly a nice metal spacer, larger than the intermediate shaft, that keeps the shaft from shifting,……I’d estimate shaft endplay at maybe .005-ish??…..so that’s a good thing,……now we’ll diag this noise, ….stay tuned…

Pat

@RickO posted:

Thanks Pat! That's all I needed. Return it is.

Maybe not so fast Rick!…..read on,….

Pat

What am I seeing over the flywheel in that first photo. Some kind of shroud?

BTW , rumor has it. That stuff in the gearbox works on chapped lips in the wintertime. 😉

This will be interesting on what the issue is.  Looking forward to the resolution

@RickO posted:

What am I seeing over the flywheel in that first photo. Some kind of shroud?

BTW , rumor has it. That stuff in the gearbox works on chapped lips in the wintertime. 😉

Rick, …yes, …there’s a shroud over the flywheel, my best guess at the very moment, is that shroud is supposed to keep the smoke fluid off the flywheel and prevent it from being slung around……the smoke units are literally right there,….

Pat

That video sounds terrible (and I don't mean the quality!).

Sounds like the flywheel is rubbing that shroud. Maybe in reverse the motor thrusts enough to cause some extra encoder grief? I have two in order but they seem to be delayed.

BTW Pat, while you’re in there can you measure the final gear ratio?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Sounds like the flywheel is rubbing that shroud. Maybe in reverse the motor thrusts enough to cause some extra encoder grief? I have two in order but they seem to be delayed.

BTW Pat, while you’re in there can you measure the final gear ratio?

Norm, sure, I’ll get the gear ratio, and post it on here,….and I’ll look at the shroud for any witness marks,…..I haven’t dove in to the noise issue yet,…..but we’ll figure it out,…

Pat

Pat, I missed something.  What was Dave's objective sending a brand new engine to you?  Had you found the engine to operate perfectly, no noise, stalls, etc., what was the plan?

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

I have two in order but they seem to be delayed.

I'm in the same boat, still waiting for mine.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Pat, I missed something.  What was Dave's objective sending a brand new engine to you?  Had you found the engine to operate perfectly, no noise, stalls, etc., what was the plan?

The plan is a perfect running engine, ….to be honest, we were both expecting to have to apply the “fix” to the gear box, even if it did run good, …on previous runs, it’s a cheap insurance policy. So now that they’ve added a spacer, that won’t be necessary, but now we have this lovely noise to contend with,….😉

Pat

Pat;

Thanks for taking on this exploration… you are a true credit to the entire hobby and we’re very lucky to have you. I have have a 1343 which I recently purchased and only had a chance to do a brief test run - I now know what to listen for!!!

One question - do you need to open up the engine (something I’m not comfortable doing!!!) to check/grease the gears shown in your second picture???

I will definitely be following your progress. Thanks.

@harmonyards posted:

The plan is a perfect running engine, ….to be honest, we were both expecting to have to apply the “fix” to the gear box, even if it did run good, …on previous runs, it’s a cheap insurance policy. So now that they’ve added a spacer, that won’t be necessary, but now we have this lovely noise to contend with,….😉

Pat

Thank you very much, Pat!  It’s always something!!

What are these thingies hanging off the encoder?
If they are touching the board that could be the source of the  frequency of the noise. Probably changes with load/direction/armature thrust.

Wonder if this sensor is sitting too low to the board. Line of sight may be compromised to the LED, leading to loss of control/error codes.

Gears look pristine, no evidence of damage. What people are calling ‘lock up’ might be control loop weirdness.

Could try loosening the set screw and scooching the flywheel/encoder up the shaft a bit (can see a bit of it exposed). Still kinda concerned about the optical sensor alignment, we might have two probs. Sensor alignment, sensor clearance.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

What are these thingies hanging off the encoder?
If they are touching the board that could be the source of the  frequency of the noise. Probably changes with load/direction/armature thrust.

Wonder if this sensor is sitting too low to the board. Line of sight may be compromised to the LED, leading to loss of control/error codes.

Gears look pristine, no evidence of damage. What people are calling ‘lock up’ might be control loop weirdness.

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Could try loosening the set screw and scooching the flywheel/encoder up the shaft a bit (can see a bit of it exposed). Still kinda concerned about the optical sensor alignment, we might have two probs. Sensor alignment, sensor clearance.

Norm, I looked at the encoder spacing, flywheel spacing, etc, right out the gate, …..there’s generous spacing between the encoder ring and the sensor itself,….on both sides….there’s almost zero motor shaft play, ……….the shield in front of the flywheel is not in any contact with the flywheel…..the little thingies you circled are the motor leads soldered to the board…..I guess my pic is playing tricks on us, as there’s nothing near the encoder ring…..I just double checked all that stuff, …..believe me, I’d like to find the easy fix too!!….

BTW, the gear ratio is 16:1

Pat