Well I am in the barrel too. just unpacked my santa fe units. first impression, beautiful looking units. powered up the B unit, seems to work fine. sound is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! powered up lead A unit. worked fine until first power shut down. upon powering up, it had lost id memory. reprogramed and worked fine with the exception of loud clicking noise while running. shut down again, lost memory upon start up again. repacked unit to send back to lionel. how can lionel make any profit on these, if they have to have them all back for rework. imho not a great way to run a business.
Had the same clicking noise. Bachmann contact lube quieted it temporarily...new rollers eliminated it. Looks like they had a bad batch of rollers when they made these. Two of the rollers on one of mine didn’t roll at all....excellent track cleaners!!
J Daddy posted:Norton posted:J Daddy posted:Norton posted:All the radio boards used in RCMC have a two wire connector for the antenna. Its used on steam engines which have a wire for each handrail eliminating the wire nut. Not sure its needed on plastic engines but it can't hurt.
Pete
Correct. However my point was does the two wire connection need to have a closed circuit so the locomotive will "see" the TMCC signal. On previous board designs it is not needed and this was usually one wire in previous command diesels.
One wire could break and the antenna would still be functional. The two contacts on the board are wired together. One wire to either or both contacts is sufficient. I am assuming the factory has wired all the antenna connectors with two wires so they can be used for either steam or diesel and then just tie them together on the diesels.
I just opened my RS11 which also has Alzheimers. It too has two wires soldered to the antenna plate.
Pete
Thanks Pete. Than I think what happened to mine was the antenna plate lost its adhesive to the shell and grounded the signal out on the frame . When it was sitting loose inside the unit .
I just realized from your post that all my stalling problems could be from signal loss due to antenna issue. You mentioned yours was loose inside the frame. Did things improve after the fix?
The stalling started with one A unit, then started in the other. Definitely looks like signal loss. All my other engines run fine on same track. Could it be my plates also came loose? Of course I would have to take off the shell to know, and I’m probably not going to (not a good mechanic at all!), but just for fun could you show me which screws hold the shell on?
Dave Olson posted:These will need to come into Service to be reprogrammed. Service should start accepting repairs again sometime in July once the move is finished.
I started another thread thinking it was just my units, not knowing this was just the latest widespread defective offering. So, my apologies, it didn't need another thread as it sounds like you're on top of this - thank you.
Want to document my issue here for your reference, Dave: my issue is a little different - I programmed the "lead" unit first via Legacy and that went as it should. But the other A unit and the B unit do not allow me to program them at all. I've only tried operating them for a few minutes so far, so maybe the rest of these reported issues are present too - I just dont know yet.
There are posts from non-Lionel people reporting what they say are Lionel responses, but would you be so kind as to please provide one comprehensive post that spells it all out? Meaning, that these will be issued an RMA with no cost to your customers for shipping? And how and when this might take place?
Many thanks,
Peter
Oh, forgot to mention - there's also a clicking noise as it is in motion.
Here are my observations:
1) Some units cannot program and they start up in neutral conventional - root cause was the antenna falling off the top of the shell and grounding on the frame
2) Some units cannot program start up in command mode -switch wire to main mother board was not engaged into its connector
3) Some units cannot retain their program when power is shut off and revert back to ID no. 1 : This is a software issue and they must be sent back to Lionel for a reflash
4) Some units making a loud ticking sound: The sensor on the reader board is hitting the flywheel ring. It will eventually ground the ring down and the locomotive will take off or run erratic. - I pulled the flywheel and gently pried the sensors apart to provide spacing for the flywheel ring. My E6's has the same issue.
5) Some units cannot program ID at all - Bad program / run switch
You may see additional failure modes. This is what I have found so far.
PJB posted:Oh, forgot to mention - there's also a clicking noise as it is in motion.
A lot of these sets have bad pick up rollers. A little oil helps temporarily, but I replaced mine and it eliminated the clicking completely. I recommend when everyone sends them in for repair to mention the need for replacement rollers.
I tried one more time before packing everything back up. The trailing A unit still is totally nonresponsive when trying to program it. The B unit allowed me to "add" it (I get the whistle blast) but then when switched to RUN, it 100% does not accept any Legacy commands, including starting up. It sits there dead.
Dave- again, this isn't you - it's a Lionel QC issue. You are incredibly responsive and I am grateful. I don't expect you to reply to this, but until a few years ago, every locomotive I bought from L was perfect. In the past few years, every single locomotive, Legacy and Vision, I've purchased requires immediate service due to an operating defect. Started with one of my N&W Pocahontas sets with the aluminum passenger cars. The locomotive had jittery non-smooth operation. Sorry to say that even after 2 trips back to L for service it remains that way. Knowing they have an obvious QC issue, is L making any attempt to implement a QC control check (e.g. bump up testing to say 10% instead of 1% or whatever your actual numbers are - if L even does this) so they catch this stuff before the headache is passed along to the customer? I know speed to market matters for revenue recognition, but a delay in RR must be superior to a dwindling customer base as people get turned off and decide to take their business elsewhere? Thanks for listening.
Apparently, the new Legacy RS-11 has the same issue with forgetting it's TMCC ID.
My NYCRR AA units are not retaining their ID numbers as well,Concord here we come first issue in a long long time.
They should just package return shipping labels with all new releases at this point, and should include another free return shipping label after returning from repairs.
Apparently, the problem is with the TMCC receiver that plugs into the RCMC. Of course, since Lionel started soldering the TMCC receiver on, now you have to return the entire locomotive since it's not possible to remove the little TMCC receiver for programming!
wow, what a fiasco. why is lionel having such problems that 3rd rail and mth do not? is it they use a different mfg? and how long can lionel last with these kind of losses along with lost customers ? sounds like manufacturing rules the roost, with qc having very little influence.
My Santa Fe set is having the same issues. They look great and I am sure Dave will get it corrected. It is a lot of money to spend and I wish Lionel would test some of these before sending them out.
Hate to say it, but IF this issue is really that widespread, this is like amateur hour. I mean we aren't talking about Chinese knock-off Rolexes here. We're talking about very pricey toys from what's supposed to be a premier brand name. My hope is that this serves as the needed wake up call.
Since it's the TMCC receiver or the RCMC that's common to virtually all the current Legacy stuff, it would seem pretty logical that they all got programmed wrong! So, you're going to be singing this song until they round them all up and get them reprogrammed! Too bad we can't fix this in the field. It's spanned a number of widely divergent models, so my sense is that it's the TMCC receiver that has the problem. That's also likely the board that remembers the TMCC ID.
Curiously, I don't see how that one is programmed, no program pins or connector. Since it's soldered on now, it'll be a major PITA if they have to replace those with new boards! Before the soldering, it would have been just pop the new board on the RCMC.
Attachments
I am not convinced they are all wrong. Only time will tell. My 3 unit set is doing fine. Also another colleague has the Santa Fe A-B-A and he is reporting no issues with his ( as far as holding the new ID's).
My latest issue was the antenna...I was able to re-stick the antenna to the top of the shell and everything was fine.
Begs the question - if smoke fluid wicks inside the shell …it will be only a bit of time and the double sided sticky tape will fail again.
What I find to be odd is that I have had two different sets, both of which had the same issue, yet no one else here has reported any similar issue with theirs. My main problem has been the motor stalling upon, or a few seconds after, slow-speed startup. I have gone through a number of theories, but have proven them all wrong. At first it was suggested that the O36 curves were too tight for the engines to manage a slow-speed startup. But then it started happening on straights tracks too. Then it seemed very likely that it was a loss of signal issue. I got some great advice on that from Ameen on this forum, and learned a lot about Wi-Fi as well! After changing the channels on both my Wi-Fi router and the Legacy base all seemed well again. But a couple of days later the problem came back with a vengeance. Keep in mind that none of my other Legacy engines have ever had this problem even once after years of running, and they're still not experiencing this problem when I test them out now. So here I have experience with four different Alco PA A units experiencing, with increasing frequency, engine lock up during slow speed start up, and yet no one else seems to have had this problem. I am glad no one else is getting this aggravation, but it still seems odd. By the way, once the engines get running even at very slow speed the problem never happens. They can run all day at speed step one without stopping if they get past the initial startup.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Since it's the TMCC receiver or the RCMC that's common to virtually all the current Legacy stuff, it would seem pretty logical that they all got programmed wrong! So, you're going to be singing this song until they round them all up and get them reprogrammed! Too bad we can't fix this in the field. It's spanned a number of widely divergent models, so my sense is that it's the TMCC receiver that has the problem. That's also likely the board that remembers the TMCC ID.
Curiously, I don't see how that one is programmed, no program pins or connector. Since it's soldered on now, it'll be a major PITA if they have to replace those with new boards! Before the soldering, it would have been just pop the new board on the RCMC.
WRONG. The receiver board does not have any programming.
Jon, if the TMCC receiver board is not the issue (no programming) then the RCMC board must be where the engine ID is stored or should be stored correct?
SuperChiefer84 posted:Jon, if the TMCC receiver board is not the issue (no programming) then the RCMC board must be where the engine ID is stored or should be stored correct?
Wouldn't it make sense for Lionel to have a backdoor something or other that they can access for programming. If it were to leak, I'm sure the high tech guys here would be able to take advantage of it. If not re-programming, are we talking about throwing away the boards and replacing? I would love to see the production numbers on this set. at 5 minutes per train, it will be a while in the process. I'm glad I can run some other stuff during their absence.
What’s a shame is that items like these, ones with known defects, will continue to be sold to uninformed hobbyists by all the dealers with no mention of the defect.
Happens all the time.
They should all be recalled, repaired, tested, and then returned to the dealers.
Buyer beware.
Craignor posted:What’s a shame is that items like these, ones with known defects, will continue to be sold to uninformed hobbyists by all the dealers with no mention of the defect.
Happens all the time.
They should all be recalled, repaired, tested, and then returned to the dealers.
Buyer beware.
You are correct. I just checked and at least 3 major online hobby shops are still in stock and offering them.
Went to my LHS today, and they were unaware of the issue until I told them. They tested their Alco's and RS11's while I was there and both had the issue. They were packing them up and sending them back.
Shame too, because I was going pick up a BN RS-11 but will hold off now. With that said I was able to see the Halloween one in action, and I was blown away by the sounds, really cool!
SuperChiefer84 posted:Jon, if the TMCC receiver board is not the issue (no programming) then the RCMC board must be where the engine ID is stored or should be stored correct?
Correct
Obviously what Jon is saying is correct, the RCMC has the issue. I was wondering how they programmed the TMCC receiver, now I know. 
Just got off the phone with Lionel Service. We were going through the RMA generation and was told to hold a minute. The young man came back on and told me they would be getting back to me to arrange the RMA. He told me he never heard the issue we are experiencing. My gut is that they are working on a protocol for the repairs. I think the quantity will be pretty high.
Thanks for the update. I called initially during the week of June 17th and told to call back during this week. Will wait a bit longer
Regards
just called lionel. they are not taking any warranty work on these engines at this time. said to call back in a week. grrrrr not happy.
tangoman posted:just called lionel. they are not taking any warranty work on these engines at this time. said to call back in a week. grrrrr not happy.
I did better than you. My Lionel guy said he would call back when they are ready.
Do you really think he will call back? Let's see.
I'm a little surprised to hear that, considering that Dave was on this thread weeks ago explaining what they were going to do to fix them. And since I sent my original set back to Concord for a refund about 3 weeks ago I know they have a set to work out the fix on. I guess Bryant is right...they need time to set up a protocol.
I emailed Katie on June 27 about the problem, so I know they are fully aware of the issue. Given that Lionel is usually quite fast about warranty repair, it says to me this recall will be very big. Still, returning my set to my retailer is out of the questions since I think Lionel will come up with a fix and the Railsounds is the best I have ever heard. One wonders how something like this could slip through quality control, assuming there is a quality control
Pennsyforever
pennsyforever posted:I emailed Katie on June 27 about the problem, so I know they are fully aware of the issue. Given that Lionel is usually quite fast about warranty repair, it says to me this recall will be very big. Still, returning my set to my retailer is out of the questions since I think Lionel will come up with a fix and the Railsounds is the best I have ever heard. One wonders how something like this could slip through quality control, assuming there is a quality control
Pennsyforever
I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
J Daddy posted:pennsyforever posted:I emailed Katie on June 27 about the problem, so I know they are fully aware of the issue. Given that Lionel is usually quite fast about warranty repair, it says to me this recall will be very big. Still, returning my set to my retailer is out of the questions since I think Lionel will come up with a fix and the Railsounds is the best I have ever heard. One wonders how something like this could slip through quality control, assuming there is a quality control
Pennsyforever
I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Having been one of the original posters on this topic with my NYC locos, I could not help myself. I just ordered the UP version also. I told my dealer that the packing should be good because it is most likely going to Concord after I receive them. They are beautiful engines and will be a nice diesel puller when not using my new Challenger, which is being delayed as we speak.
Am I nuts? Yes. I have 2 complete Acela sets running flawlessly on my layout. Who can top that in returning for punishment.
J Daddy posted:I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Good luck. Dave and Dean didn't attend last fall and Lionel not at all in the spring. If Lionel continues to focus on other shows I doubt we'll see any technical folks at York for some time.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:J Daddy posted:pennsyforever posted:I emailed Katie on June 27 about the problem, so I know they are fully aware of the issue. Given that Lionel is usually quite fast about warranty repair, it says to me this recall will be very big. Still, returning my set to my retailer is out of the questions since I think Lionel will come up with a fix and the Railsounds is the best I have ever heard. One wonders how something like this could slip through quality control, assuming there is a quality control
Pennsyforever
I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Having been one of the original posters on this topic with my NYC locos, I could not help myself. I just ordered the UP version also. I told my dealer that the packing should be good because it is most likely going to Concord after I receive them. They are beautiful engines and will be a nice diesel puller when not using my new Challenger, which is being delayed as we speak.
Am I nuts? Yes. I have 2 complete Acela sets running flawlessly on my layout. Who can top that in returning for punishment.
Good for you Bryant!! I'm on my 3rd NYC set after returning the first 2 which were no good. Even after 2 disasters I still got another because the good outweighs the bad. Taking your advice (thank you) I ordered my new set from Steve at MrMuffins and the third time was the charm. This set has none of the serious issues the first 2 had and I am enjoying the heck out of running them! Thanks again Bryant and Steve!
BNSF-Matt posted:@JamesRx Glad to see you have a working set now. Even though this ID issue is a bummer, the set gets an A+ in every other category for me. I will wait it out and see what options Lionel has for folks.
Thanks so much Matt! I have spent so many hours close up with these engines that I know Every tiny imperfection, including many that a normal person would never notice! But even with all that, and I am a bit of a perfectionist, I still would not trade them because what’s great about them outweighs all the flaws. I don’t know anything about market share in the O gauge train market but I would venture to say that if Lionell could get control of their quality issues they would rule the market because no other trains in this price range have the realism in terms of look and sound that Lionel has. They obviously put a great deal of effort into the design, but just can’t get the QC we are looking for and I’m sure that’s just economics.
Well, i got 4 sets of these. I tested all of them in engine #1 and they all worked great. I seldom program until I run them... too many legacy engines all with similar cab numbers.
I programmed my Santa Fe last night as train #4 shut it down and restarted it worked fine. I will try again tonite...
Super O Bob posted:Well, i got 4 sets of these. I tested all of them in engine #1 and they all worked great. I seldom program until I run them... too many legacy engines all with similar cab numbers.
I programmed my Santa Fe last night as train #4 shut it down and restarted it worked fine. I will try again tonite...
Just FYI. Shutting down does not seem to be the issue. It seems to rear its ugly head if you kill transformer power to the track. I have learned to park my ALCOs in the front of the layout until I get them sent back. At this point I hope the UPs I ordered are fine. I really don't care if they have to go back also. Kind of "part of the practice". I have many other trains to play with until then.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:Super O Bob posted:Well, i got 4 sets of these. I tested all of them in engine #1 and they all worked great. I seldom program until I run them... too many legacy engines all with similar cab numbers.
I programmed my Santa Fe last night as train #4 shut it down and restarted it worked fine. I will try again tonite...
Just FYI. Shutting down does not seem to be the issue. It seems to rear its ugly head if you kill transformer power to the track. I have learned to park my ALCOs in the front of the layout until I get them sent back. At this point I hope the UPs I ordered are fine. I really don't care if they have to go back also. Kind of "part of the practice". I have many other trains to play with until then.
Thanks for heads up. I just kill power to the transformer... so will see if it keeps the memory, but otherwise, i could run as engine 1 and seems to be no issue...
Someone said its on the ac9 also? I have to test mine... still running that as engine 1!
Hey Bob - try actually changing the engine ID to a new number. Some are fine . Some are not
MartyE posted:J Daddy posted:I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Good luck. Dave and Dean didn't attend last fall and Lionel not at all in the spring. If Lionel continues to focus on other shows I doubt we'll see any technical folks at York for some time.
WHAT ? Then who did I see at the TCA museum. And at smokey bones last April? Ryan always supports us. 
J Daddy posted:MartyE posted:J Daddy posted:I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Good luck. Dave and Dean didn't attend last fall and Lionel not at all in the spring. If Lionel continues to focus on other shows I doubt we'll see any technical folks at York for some time.
WHAT ? Then who did I see at the TCA museum. And at smokey bones last April? Ryan always supports us.
Ryan only went to the museum and Smokey Bones. If he attended the show I didn't see him. Lionel had no booth in April.
Super O Bob posted:Someone said its on the ac9 also? I have to test mine... still running that as engine 1!
Well, regarding the AC9, I have been following this thread and being thankful I did not order any Alcos but I have not seen a reference here to the AC9s having an ID issue. HOWEVER, I have two and one of them will not take a change in the engine number from 1 so I have run it as that ever since. Figured it was a RUN/PGM switch issue but have not had time to have a look at it.
In my case, the engine just does not respond to being put in PGM mode and having a new ID set.
This may or may not be the same thing as the board issues referred to above. But it is very annoying as I waited until AFTER these BTO engines were issued and got favorable reports on this forum before I got them.
BTW, my other AC9 has no slow speed control although every other feature works. That one's not going back to Lionel 
but to an independent service tech.
J Daddy posted:MartyE posted:J Daddy posted:I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Good luck. Dave and Dean didn't attend last fall and Lionel not at all in the spring. If Lionel continues to focus on other shows I doubt we'll see any technical folks at York for some time.
WHAT ? Then who did I see at the TCA museum. And at smokey bones last April? Ryan always supports us.
That was Ryan. Maybe you didnt recognize him. He is working on that beard. Maybe he likes civil war reinacting, i know he digs 19th century steam!
He was at the Wed TCA museum...
J Daddy posted:Hey Bob - try actually changing the engine ID to a new number. Some are fine . Some are not
Yup did that. I tested my Santa Fe, PRR, NYC, and SP. All of them worked, took new numbers and kept them. Then on the 4th test of my Santa Fe, the lead A unit defaulted back to engine1, but the trailing A unit kept its number. So maybe this is intermittant? I will test them all again tomorrow and see if they all work.
Hancock52 posted:Super O Bob posted:Someone said its on the ac9 also? I have to test mine... still running that as engine 1!Well, regarding the AC9, I have been following this thread and being thankful I did not order any Alcos but I have not seen a reference here to the AC9s having an ID issue. HOWEVER, I have two and one of them will not take a change in the engine number from 1 so I have run it as that ever since. Figured it was a RUN/PGM switch issue but have not had time to have a look at it.
In my case, the engine just does not respond to being put in PGM mode and having a new ID set.
This may or may not be the same thing as the board issues referred to above. But it is very annoying as I waited until AFTER these BTO engines were issued and got favorable reports on this forum before I got them.
BTW, my other AC9 has no slow speed control although every other feature works. That one's not going back to Lionel
I have two legacy AC9's. I just tested both. 3805 and 3811. Both work perfect. I have had the 3805 for about a year? Since it came out. Its seen alot of action on my layout. Its kept its number 5. The daylight 3811, i just got last month. I just test programmed it to number 11 and it holds its number. These are great engines...
Super O Bob posted:J Daddy posted:MartyE posted:J Daddy posted:I agree with you. I will look for a set of Santa Fe s at York. I'm just going to hand them over to Dave to fix when I see him there.
Good luck. Dave and Dean didn't attend last fall and Lionel not at all in the spring. If Lionel continues to focus on other shows I doubt we'll see any technical folks at York for some time.
WHAT ? Then who did I see at the TCA museum. And at smokey bones last April? Ryan always supports us.
That was Ryan. Maybe you didnt recognize him. He is working on that beard. Maybe he likes civil war reinacting, i know he digs 19th century steam!
He was at the Wed TCA museum...
LOL... you mean I ate and drank for 2 hours with the wrong person? !!!
All kidding aside Ryan will be at York this October and Lionel will have a booth.
It will be interesting to see if the PA's at the show will have been returned and repaired and ready to go...
Super O Bob posted:J Daddy posted:Hey Bob - try actually changing the engine ID to a new number. Some are fine . Some are not
Yup did that. I tested my Santa Fe, PRR, NYC, and SP. All of them worked, took new numbers and kept them. Then on the 4th test of my Santa Fe, the lead A unit defaulted back to engine1, but the trailing A unit kept its number. So maybe this is intermittant? I will test them all again tomorrow and see if they all work.
Yep, had the same issue here. Tested all of Tom's stock at GL's and it was usually the A units. about 50 percent.
Just read a new post called “Disappointment with my Vision Line Niagra”....the member was told by Lionel to wait until the first week in August to get an RA
Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
I have two new PAs sets (Rio Grande and UP) arriving today from Nick Smith... so will test them too... so far only intermittant issue found (one time) on the Santa Fe lead A unit. Tested same engine again thismorning and it worked fine. Programmed a new number and it held it for several power cycles.... will test more today...
Super O Bob posted:Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
They are gonna need a bigger building and a larger staff to get all these units turned around plus the normal defective units.
BobbyD posted:Super O Bob posted:Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
They are gonna need a bigger building and a larger staff to get all these units turned around plus the normal defective units.
Larger building, yes. larger staff, no way. As a manufacturer in a mature market (Geezers from Caesars that we are) with declining sales (assuming less buyers each year) labor is the 1st thing that is looked at to be chopped. I think we will see things get through the QA process as this happens. In reality, we will probably have to handle some defects or fixes on our own. When a company is held by outside investors, there is less empathy toward the customer and most attention paid to profits. Fact of life. We see this in my industry (Industrial Laundry Equipment Manufacturing) and the results have been similar.
Hopefully the move logistically will be smoother and efficient for them. By description the department was spread out with the older system and facility.
My UP ABA held the ID for about a week with about a 10-12 power cycles before it reset. It's seem pretty random, which is kind of strange for an EEPROM if that's what's holding the ID number.
Exactly right Bryant. as I mentioned in a previous post, I work for a major player in healthcare service and whenever the stock price goes down the first thing they look to cut is Staffing. Payroll is the one thing they have control over in our Market and I'm sure it's the same for many other Industries. As you said, fact of life. But that fact will inevitably lead to a decline in customer service.
Geezers from Caesars that we are) with declining sales (assuming less buyers each year)
That's funny! Havent heard that one!
Lionel has said they have had some very strong performance in recent year(s)... the starter sets carry them. Several guys in my office have kids that built great layouts and love Lionel... so there is a future... might be smaller but it will be there....
BNSF-Matt posted:My UP ABA held the ID for about a week with about a 10-12 power cycles before it reset. It's seem pretty random, which is kind of strange for an EEPROM if that's what's holding the ID number.
Thats about what i got. I have 4 sets, all work fine, then one did it last night.
Actually, i build lashups so often, it only takes me a few seconds cause of the easy access switch hatches, i could reprogram if and when it happens... if its that intermittant
JamesRx posted:Exactly right Bryant. as I mentioned in a previous post, I work for a major player in healthcare service and whenever the stock price goes down the first thing they look to cut is Staffing. Payroll is the one thing they have control over in our Market and I'm sure it's the same for many other Industries. As you said, fact of life. But that fact will inevitably lead to a decline in customer service.
The operative word is inevitability at the end of your post. It wont get better unless sales increase. Cost of sales percentage has probably been on an incline and all they can do is try to mitigate it by cutting costs. We have a phrase "you can cut cost to save expense, but you cannot cut costs to attain profitability.
If a major manufacturer of toy trains tried to sell their business, what would outside investors say when they studied this industry. How would you value your business with respect to earnings and what would you say 5top entice a buyer. I'm glad I have no desire to buy a train company, but it would be interesting tor part of executive management to deal with the challenges. Certainly the products would be very interesting.
Super O Bob posted:BNSF-Matt posted:My UP ABA held the ID for about a week with about a 10-12 power cycles before it reset. It's seem pretty random, which is kind of strange for an EEPROM if that's what's holding the ID number.
Thats about what i got. I have 4 sets, all work fine, then one did it last night.
Actually, i build lashups so often, it only takes me a few seconds cause of the easy access switch hatches, i could reprogram if and when it happens... if its that intermittant
Bob,
Just make sure you power down the layout where the engine is accessible to re-address. I made the mistake before learning this problem, of parking my engines at the back of the layout. After 2 times of crawling, never again.
Byant... thanks, yes i pull master power down... but just tested at front of layout.
I am a fan of folded dogbone layouts so all trackage is in reach. After 3 rectangle layouts, my last 2 have been folded dogbone so i can reach and see everything!
Super O Bob posted:Geezers from Caesars that we are) with declining sales (assuming less buyers each year)That's funny! Havent heard that one!Lionel has said they have had some very strong performance in recent year(s)... the starter sets carry them. Several guys in my office have kids that built great layouts and love Lionel... so there is a future... might be smaller but it will be there....
I'm a contributor to trying to grow this hobby. So far my 3 & 5 year old grandchildren are drinking the Kool-Ade.
I plan to buy then their 1st set at Christmas time. They get pretty excited when they come visit.
Awesome!
I was really blown away by the layout of 12 year old son of a collegue. I may ask for pictures to post here of it.
Folks, try to use the shutdown (5 key or dedicated power off ICON on the cab-2) on the remote for the locos before turning off the AC power. This may stop the ID loss from happening. Worth a try as a temporary solution...
SantaFeFan posted:Folks, try to use the shutdown (5 key or dedicated power off ICON on the cab-2) on the remote for the locos before turning off the AC power. This may stop the ID loss from happening. Worth a try as a temporary solution...
Awesome Jon! I will try that... thanks!
Got my NYC AA successfully up and running after issues with trying tips previously noted. Only issue now is lead A front lamp/light not working when lashed up but works solo. Same with second A unit in reverse. Also works solo. Work got into the way so ran out of time figuring out light issue.
Super O Bob posted:Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
I have two new PAs sets (Rio Grande and UP) arriving today from Nick Smith... so will test them too... so far only intermittant issue found (one time) on the Santa Fe lead A unit. Tested same engine again thismorning and it worked fine. Programmed a new number and it held it for several power cycles.... will test more today...
Bad news Bob. Talking to our colleagues in the club. After 4 weeks of working they are now forgetting their set id's. I would plan on marching them all back.
J Daddy posted:Super O Bob posted:Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
I have two new PAs sets (Rio Grande and UP) arriving today from Nick Smith... so will test them too... so far only intermittant issue found (one time) on the Santa Fe lead A unit. Tested same engine again thismorning and it worked fine. Programmed a new number and it held it for several power cycles.... will test more today...
Bad news Bob. Talking to our colleagues in the club. After 4 weeks of working they are now forgetting their set id's. I would plan on marching them all back.
The UP did have the issue with just the Lead A unit. Trailing A unit had kept number.
Just tested the new RIO GRANDE (looks great) and it is perfect. So had issue on 2 of the 6 new PA sets. I will keep testing them, see if they go bad.
I tested Dr ZW Jon Z's suggestion and shut down aux5. But it didnt help...
Bob,
Any pics of the Rio Grande set?
I got an email from Lionel yesterday saying that in 2-3 weeks, when they reopen for repairs, they would be happy to issue an RMA for all my PAs.
Major
Blue Streak posted:Bob,
Any pics of the Rio Grande set?
I will post tonite. I almost took a picture last night. They are STUNNING and all stainless steel body... it looks great!
I don’t believe electronic devices can fix themselves. By now it’s pretty obvious that all the engines will need to be fixed by a Lionel technician. I sure hope they are working on a plan.
Bob,
Thanks. Would like to see the Rio Grande next to the UP as I am deciding between the two.
Blue Streak posted:Bob,
Thanks. Would like to see the Rio Grande next to the UP as I am deciding between the two.
Gotcha covered!
Super O Bob posted:J Daddy posted:Super O Bob posted:Yea, they moved service... to a new building.... i am waiting till august as well to send in my PA.
I have two new PAs sets (Rio Grande and UP) arriving today from Nick Smith... so will test them too... so far only intermittant issue found (one time) on the Santa Fe lead A unit. Tested same engine again thismorning and it worked fine. Programmed a new number and it held it for several power cycles.... will test more today...
Bad news Bob. Talking to our colleagues in the club. After 4 weeks of working they are now forgetting their set id's. I would plan on marching them all back.
The UP did have the issue with just the Lead A unit. Trailing A unit had kept number.
Just tested the new RIO GRANDE (looks great) and it is perfect. So had issue on 2 of the 6 new PA sets. I will keep testing them, see if they go bad.
I tested Dr ZW Jon Z's suggestion and shut down aux5. But it didnt help...
Sorry it didn't, was worth a try. There is less "activity" in the software in the loco when shutdown, so I was hoping it wold help. Appreciate the update on the testing of the idea.
I hope LIONEL has this ALL sorted out before they Release the "PA" in the Santa Fe GOLD BONNET SET !!!! Shown in LIONEL 2019 Vol 1 catalog. (I have one on order)
Fred
Super O Bob posted:Blue Streak posted:Bob,
Thanks. Would like to see the Rio Grande next to the UP as I am deciding between the two.
Gotcha covered!
Ok... here are some quick pics. The Rio Grande is all in stainless paint and looks fantastic. The UP you can get two issues in legacy already and probably more in future, but your choice!
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Here is another picture from the display case... this shows the very cool Southern Pacific 1959 'Halloween scheme'...
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Thanks Bob! The Rio Grande does look good. When you say Issues with the UP are you talking the ID issue or ?
Blue Streak posted:Thanks Bob! The Rio Grande does look good. When you say Issues with the UP are you talking the ID issue or ?
Yes, it just forgets the id on the lead A unit a few times. Otherwise perfect in decoration, sounds, operation, etc... i will just run it with id #1, its no problem then.
It takes me 8 seconds to reprogram the number, so its not a big deal to me...
Just wondering if anyone has called Lionel and received an RA number. If so, is Lionel providing a return shipping label?
RKLIMAS posted:Just wondering if anyone has called Lionel and received an RA number. If so, is Lionel providing a return shipping label?
I just got off the phone with Katie at Lionel. She is sending me an email with labels to return 2 sets.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:RKLIMAS posted:Just wondering if anyone has called Lionel and received an RA number. If so, is Lionel providing a return shipping label?
I just got off the phone with Katie at Lionel. She is sending me an email with labels to return 2 sets.
Great news! Glad Lionel has stepped up and provided shipping labels.
thinking about getting one of these sets. Am I correct in assuming that if you make no changes to the factory default setting of 1, it will not be a problem in calling them up in legacy multiple times without the engine s forgetting this id?
Thanks
LIRR Steamer posted:thinking about getting one of these sets. Am I correct in assuming that if you make no changes to the factory default setting of 1, it will not be a problem in calling them up in legacy multiple times without the engine s forgetting this id?
Thanks
Correct. My set runs fine as engine 1. No issues after 3 months of running.
LIRR Steamer posted:thinking about getting one of these sets. Am I correct in assuming that if you make no changes to the factory default setting of 1, it will not be a problem in calling them up in legacy multiple times without the engine s forgetting this id?
Thanks
If you’re getting it from a dealer why not have them get it updated first by Lionel.
Rob
That is a good suggestion. I will check with dealers to see if they will do that.
I see from his video that Eric of Eric’s Trains received his Alco PAs back from Lionel with the repair done. How is everyone else doing with this issue? Anyone else get them back yet?
I have to get around to sending in two sets. Honestly been waiting for my other 4csets to go bad. Still working fine. My rio grande has not forgotten its id. Still works as train#6.
I have encountered the issue on my UP, and SF only. Lead A unit (the one with sounds) defaults back to engine 1 after power is cycled.
Sent my 3 units in two weeks ago so only time will tell.
I called today as I just received my SP last week which is having same issue. Even the b unit this time. While on the call I asked about my NYC AA I sent in about a month ago. Still in line waiting for repair. Got the RA but probably not ship it right away
I asked if they are recalling those that have yet to be delivered as I have not received the UP and stated I really don’t want the set if all I have to do is return it right away. They are not, so calling dealer to discuss canceling Not sure but it’s Not like there isn’t choices when it comes to UP
But all in all been running the SP ABA and horn and color scheme is Outstanding Catalog pics do not do it justice
I sent mine is when service reopened to correct the loosing ID problem. Got them back quickly but then they had the "no response to creating an ID at all" problem - other than #1 and 99. That was not acceptable, so back in they went. Still there. Looks like others are having the same second problem.
PeterA posted:I sent mine is when service reopened to correct the loosing ID problem. Got them back quickly but then they had the "no response to creating an ID at all" problem - other than #1 and 99. That was not acceptable, so back in they went. Still there. Looks like others are having the same second problem.
I'm surprised they flipped them without fixing them for you. It was a pretty hot conversation when they were released. I spoke with Aaron and Katy pretty quickly upon receiving them. They were certainly aware of the problem. Looks like you go under their radar.
That's crazy, they're just creating work for themselves for no reason!
Bryant, the only thing I can guess is that they tested them on loco #99 which, as was explained to me, is the universal number for Legacy locomotives. And of course #1 and 99 work fine! She actually sent me an attempted fix through my CAB 2 to use when setting the loco ID, but it didn't work. Thus, I got my second RA.
jjwyatt posted:But all in all been running the SP ABA and horn and color scheme is Outstanding Catalog pics do not do it justice
I agree... i think the holloween scheme SP is fantastic looking! 
I use it to pull a string of the SP overnights box cars! All black train is cool!
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PeterA posted:Bryant, the only thing I can guess is that they tested them on loco #99 which, as was explained to me, is the universal number for Legacy locomotives. And of course #1 and 99 work fine! She actually sent me an attempted fix through my CAB 2 to use when setting the loco ID, but it didn't work. Thus, I got my second RA.
Still waiting on our first... 
Like the idea of the overnights. I recently found a set of the surfliner cars but have yet to find a matching F59 so figured why not run them with the SPs. Two eras collide
Pardon the moving camera as was using remote with other hand.
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jjwyatt posted:Like the idea of the overnights. I recently found a set of the surfliner cars but have yet to find a matching F59 so figured why not run them with the SPs. Two eras collide
I like that idea too and I am always in favor of fantasy excursion trains. Nice job and thanks for the video.
