What exactly is in the Lionel "Superbass" B-units.
Is it just improved speakers, or does it have its own soundboard, improved amplifier, etc?
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Good question....I would like a little clarification on this topic myself!
-Pete
Improved speakers A.K.A. "Fat Boy"
Speaker enclosure and maybe an amplifier.
Actually what Lionel should be offering is a version of Broadway Limited ' s Rolling Thunder. Amazing sound system.
Here is the Southern PWC Legacy Super Bass B Unit from approximately 7 years ago...
FWIW ..... I had all three engines from the first release of CSX AC6000's. One was a "SuperBass" unit.
IIRC, they all had the same speaker, but the Superbass had two of them verses one, and of course in a different ... but also better ..... enclosure. It definitely made a difference in a train.
Originally posted by JDaddy:
Actually what Lionel should be offering is a version of Broadway Limited ' s Rolling Thunder. Amazing sound system.
Why? 
I disagree. I will take Lionel's Superbass to any Paragon "Rolling Thunder". Reason is multiple trains... esp on small layouts! [small layouts even as big as dual mains in 072 curves] The single subwoofer cannot really distinguish when multiple trains are rolling, esp if you have multiple diesels and/or multiple steam trains on dual trackage from different eras [ Second Gen to Third Generation, third Gen to fourth Generation, etc.] My 1980's Roanoake station sound system is just as loud with a pair of old Jensen 6"x9" car speakers in an enclosure.
BTW, I have noticed MOST YouTube videos promoting the Paragon "Rolling Thunder" are just one engine. Show me a layout with more typical operations of trains running opposite each other on dual main lines [or parallel trackage]... just like us "A-Typical" O gaugers run them!
It has this little knob that goes to 11? 
Mitch
Just like the "Breakdown" B units from several years back, the enclosure makes a world of differnce in the sound. Same speaker/s sealed in a box gives a much deeper, richer bass. I love the sound in my breakdown F7B
This is a super Bass!!!
Photo courtesy of the interweb at 247sports.com
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prrhorseshoecurve posted:Originally posted by JDaddy:
Actually what Lionel should be offering is a version of Broadway Limited ' s Rolling Thunder. Amazing sound system.Why?
BTW, I have noticed MOST YouTube videos promoting the Paragon "Rolling Thunder" are just one engine. Show me a layout with more typical operations of trains running opposite each other on dual main lines [or parallel trackage]... just like us "A-Typical" O gaugers run them!
Granted multiple engines at once through one sounds system would be insane. However, one engine at a time could easily be accommodated.
Can a Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit be run with a TMCC engine and still have all its functions work as advertised? Since it was brought up, same question for the Legacy Breakdown unit.
Reason I ask is because I would like to get the Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit and run it with 3rd Rail engines with the new ERR stuff.
My Legacy F-3 B unit with super bass from several years ago can be coupled to conventional, TMCC, and Legacy. For example, when I run it with conventional locos using a transformer it still works great as long as my Legacy system is turned on. You can use the Legacy or TMCC controller for the super bass unit while using the transformer throttle to run the conventional loco(s).
Also the bass does have a deep throbbing sound which really adds to the overall sound experience.
CAPPilot posted:Can a Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit be run with a TMCC engine and still have all its functions work as advertised? Since it was brought up, same question for the Legacy Breakdown unit.
Reason I ask is because I would like to get the Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit and run it with 3rd Rail engines with the new ERR stuff.
This product is currently under development and has not been tested in conjunction with 3rd Rail engines and ERR sound systems.
So back to part of my original question... (and some new ones)
Does it have its own soundboard?
Will it work with TMCC engines?
Is it just diesel roar of all the other sound effects?
Thanks.
The amplifier and the speaker are not the problem. Years ago Lionel eliminated anything below 200Hz from the sound recordings, thinking (erroneously) that the speakers and enclosures could not reproduce those frequencies. With the new amplifier, the fat boy speakers, and sealing the speaker enclosure, Lionel could add those frequencies back in and things would be fine.
One of the fellows in our club was on the original Lion Tech team that created TMCC. He has a few locos with sealed bodies and early sound recordings with the low bass frequencies still in them. They sound great!
Jim Harrington posted:So back to part of my original question... (and some new ones)
Does it have its own soundboard?
YES.
Will it work with TMCC engines?
YES. You will have to select Legacy Sound Type. In a train, since it's been a while since I used mine, I cannot remember 100% if the setup below gives you Legacy Quilling whistle and such but I believe so. Hope fully maybe @Railsounds can confirm.
From the 1.60 Legacy manual...
HYBRID MODE support for Super Bass Roar Unit. (TMCC engine as head, Super Bass Roar Unit in
LEGACY mode in rear) This will output labor commands in TMCC mode to trigger the Super Bass
Roar Unit. In addition, if the operator moves the HORN to the Super Bass Roar Unit, the BELL and
HORN controls will trigger the LEGACY Super Bass Roar Unit. Likewise if the operator moves the
dialog icon to the LEGACY Super Bass Roar Unit, the RR speed announcements and key 2, 5 and 7
announcements will come from the Super Bass Roar Unit. This function will also work with other
LEGACY engines that may exist in this configuration.
Earlier production versions of LEGACY locomotives may not support SOUND MASKING to get a quilling horn and if memory serves me make sure that the Super Bass unit is setup as theIs it just diesel roar of all the other sound effects?
Depends on how it is setup in the lash up. See above.
Thanks.
So, if running TMCC without Legacy, what happens?
The lead unit will have the sound of horn and bell since there is no sound masking in TMCC. The SB will just have the rumble...unless you just assign it the same ID as the lead unit. It's non powered (no motors) so that won't matter and when you blow the horn the lead unit and SB will blow as well (non quilling). Same with bell. Because it is the same ID as the lead engine.
Control it separately and it works in ANY consist. Just because it can't be MU'd with ERR stuff doesn't mean it doesn't work. Come on Rudy, what kind of marketing job is that? Geeesh!
Railsounds posted:CAPPilot posted:Can a Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit be run with a TMCC engine and still have all its functions work as advertised? Since it was brought up, same question for the Legacy Breakdown unit.
Reason I ask is because I would like to get the Lionel Legacy Superbase B unit and run it with 3rd Rail engines with the new ERR stuff.
This product is currently under development and has not been tested in conjunction with 3rd Rail engines and ERR sound systems.
Sounds like TMCC capability is STILL under development. Unfortunately since Lionel cannot confirm it at this time, I will pass on PRE ordering it.... I will wait until they are released.
Laidoffsick posted:Just like the "Breakdown" B units from several years back, the enclosure makes a world of differnce in the sound. Same speaker/s sealed in a box gives a much deeper, richer bass. I love the sound in my breakdown F7B
While running does the Breakdown B unit have normal engine sounds like a powered A before it begins the sequence with smoke and a thrown connecting rod?
RoyBoy posted:The amplifier and the speaker are not the problem. Years ago Lionel eliminated anything below 200Hz from the sound recordings, thinking (erroneously) that the speakers and enclosures could not reproduce those frequencies. With the new amplifier, the fat boy speakers, and sealing the speaker enclosure, Lionel could add those frequencies back in and things would be fine.
One of the fellows in our club was on the original Lion Tech team that created TMCC. He has a few locos with sealed bodies and early sound recordings with the low bass frequencies still in them. They sound great!
When did they eliminate frequencies below 200 HZ? RS 2.5 had them.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...commodore-vanderbilt
Pete
RoyBoy posted:The amplifier and the speaker are not the problem. Years ago Lionel eliminated anything below 200Hz from the sound recordings, thinking (erroneously) that the speakers and enclosures could not reproduce those frequencies. With the new amplifier, the fat boy speakers, and sealing the speaker enclosure, Lionel could add those frequencies back in and things would be fine.
One of the fellows in our club was on the original Lion Tech team that created TMCC. He has a few locos with sealed bodies and early sound recordings with the low bass frequencies still in them. They sound great!
I was afraid that was the case. It is common practice to roll off the low end frequencies to prevent distortion and clipping in smaller speakers. The problem is that to RoyBoy's point, today's small speakers are more capable. Tang Band makes a line of speaker modules that some of us are using that offer superior low end frequency response in the sub 100Hz range. Some of their bigger modules can get down to the 50-80Hz range. They do that via an active/passive setup in a sealed enclosure. I recently added one to my S scale MTH F3 and to my surprise (irritation) I found that it made no difference. Why? because the PS3 sound file has the low end rolled off.
DCC is a different animal all together. The whole range is captured. Here is a clip of my S scale SW1 that has better bass response than any factory O scale model. It uses a LokSound v4 decoder driving the smallest Tang Band speaker module - T0-2008s.
In my opinion Lionel and/or MTH should absolutely offer a below the layout subwoofer module to compliment the onboard sounds. In real life measurements diesels have a 50-60 Hz rumble that you "feel" that is totally missing from most models. You can see it on the graph in the video even though the speaker can't quite get there.
The Superbass concept is interesting, but I'm not sure what good it will do unless they put the expanded frequency recordings back in.
