McKeen Car in O Scale

This might be a good shot of the nose

Good plans do exist in RMC - Schopp in 1954 - getting that nose curvature configuration should be transferable from the plans.

@RoyBoy: I think you're on the right track with redoing the sideframes on an existing car. The donor locomotive I have for the first prototype does have removable sideframes so that's going to be the path forward for now.

@Mark V. Spadaro: Awesome picture of the Nevada car! I really want to go out to see it in person sometime. I was in the Southwest for a family trip this past fall but we didn't make it to Nevada.

@mwb: Thanks for the advice on the bow proportions. I was able to find some detailed scale drawings that gave me a better understanding of the correct shape. To answer some of your questions:

1. The model is presently 0.125" thick, I may slim it down to 0.1" if I feel it will still print well.

2. The floor will be provided from a donor locomotive with a few end pieces 3D printed.

3. I will come up with underbody detail once I am further along in the design, it will be dictated by what fits without being too fragile.

4. I'm inventing a solution for sideframes right now!

I have redone the nose on the McKeen to better represent the prototype's sweeping curves. I've started fooling around with different designs for the pilot as well-- seems like every picture of a McKeen has a different pilot! The current design just bolts in underneath so I can test-fit a few different ideas and settle on the one I like most.

I found the donor locomotive I picked up last year and started looking it over. The trucks come completely apart with just a few screws so I now have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to mount the McKeen sideframes on them. The frame is actually 15" long so a little too big to fit in a 55' McKeen.

I made a "virtual twin" of the frame and fitted it into the 72' McKeen body. It looks like the only modification necessary is to shave a little metal off the front end of the frame. I've modified the window spacing slightly so I can line up mounting posts with the existing holes in the frame. I'm hoping that I can put in sliding doors similar to the trailer design, although the space for the track-level passenger door is tricky.

I need to finish the design before I can calculate an accurate price, but I am anticipating that I can produce these 72ft McKeens as 3D printed kits (provide your own drivetrain) in the sub-$200 range. I will be building at least one with ERR TMCC and Railsounds for my own layout as a proof of the design. I will keep you all posted!

Gee, I'm going to have to keep an eye on this topic.  I think I'd like one of those.   A powered chassis shouldn't be too hard to scare up.

@Trainguy Ken posted:

@mwb: Thanks for the advice on the bow proportions. I was able to find some detailed scale drawings that gave me a better understanding of the correct shape. To answer some of your questions:

1. The model is presently 0.125" thick, I may slim it down to 0.1" if I feel it will still print well.

2. The floor will be provided from a donor locomotive with a few end pieces 3D printed.

3. I will come up with underbody detail once I am further along in the design, it will be dictated by what fits without being too fragile.

4. I'm inventing a solution for sideframes right now!

I have redone the nose on the McKeen to better represent the prototype's sweeping curves. I've started fooling around with different designs for the pilot as well-- seems like every picture of a McKeen has a different pilot! The current design just bolts in underneath so I can test-fit a few different ideas and settle on the one I like most.

Looking good!

I need to finish the design before I can calculate an accurate price, but I am anticipating that I can produce these 72ft McKeens as 3D printed kits (provide your own drivetrain) in the sub-$200 range.

Interested in one...

I would be interested

At this point, I'd be happy with a body that can go over the RailKing gas electrics. It would be better than nothing. You have a remarkable project idea, and a great interest in a very accurate model. Which would really be nice. I know things are costly, but there will be people out there interested in paying for one. The McKeens were pretty interesting. Please note that some existed in the mid-west, including the fact that the Soo Line had one, (or did they have more than one?) Woodstock and Sycamore also had them. Regardless, a wonderful project. Good luck! And thanks!!

count me in for a kit

Jeff is right, having the body matched up with something like the RK Doodlebug would be great, less customization to get a body under it.

Terrific project. At anything under $200 should make it very affordable for anyone who wants one. If that $200 target price point proves difficult to meet, you could think about offering just the main body kit at that price, and offer side frame kits and underbody detail kits as optional add-ons. Just an idea.

@gunrunnerjohn: The MTH Doodlebug that I am using to design the kit is missing all of the electronics, but it does have the motor trucks with their big vertical motors and flywheels. I would imagine that the original PS1 or PS2 board stacks would fit if there's enough room for the motors. (PS3 boards are tiny so I'm not too worried about those!)

@modeltrainsparts: I've been thinking a lot about offering trim levels for this design. I can print in all the vents and bits on the roof, but it won't look as good as separately applied details. To make things more complicated, each and every McKeen photo I've found depicts different equipment in the frame and on the roof!

@Rob Johnston, @Jeff B. Haertlein , @Dave Koehler: Thanks for the words of encouragement! I am going to try and expedite the design so I can get these ready for you.

I added the headlight and a new spoked pilot for the McKeen's bow. I divided up the 18" long body into 3 sections that each fit on my 3D printer.

I took apart the trucks from my Railking Doodlebug donor and found that the sideframes drop out with a couple of screws.

I made a virtual twin of the stripped-down power trucks and studied pictures of the McKeen's front truck to make a new set of frames. I tried to make it look distinctively like the McKeen while still fitting the donor motor.

The original Doodlebug frames are relatively close to the McKeen's original rear trucks, but I conjured up a design that is slightly more accurate.

Here are the new sideframes printed in black ABS and bolted on to the Doodlebug trucks with the original hardware.

Here's an interesting animal: a Doodlebug with McKeen trucks!

I'm finishing another project on my printer today and tomorrow, but I'm hoping to start printing the first McKeen body sections this weekend. Stay tuned!

That's cook, I think having it fit something like the Doodlebug would be a great idea, that makes it easy to power!

very impressive how your dealing with real world physical constraints in your project.  I've worked with professional engineers and designers that could learn a thing or two from you.

Above in your contributions, you appear to ask if MTH did a prototype of their model.  I certainly saw it displayed at one York, and think it was in a catalog, for l, apparently  alone in the wilderness, lost no time in ordering one.  Somebody probably photoed it on MTH's shelves at whatever York that was (wish l had), and maybe it was cataloged?  Certainly was my big disappointment in "built-to-ordet", when cancelled.

Ken,  With your capable 3D printing skill set you may want to consider setting up production for Lionel GG-1 truck side frames. 

I understand that there are quite a few Lionel GG-1 owners in need of them.  Me included.

@Rob Johnston posted:

very impressive how your dealing with real world physical constraints in your project.  I've worked with professional engineers and designers that could learn a thing or two from you.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's cook, I think having it fit something like the Doodlebug would be a great idea, that makes it easy to power!

Very kind of you John and Rob, thanks! I'm just an EE who dabbles in Fusion in his free time.

@colorado hirailer posted:

Above in your contributions, you appear to ask if MTH did a prototype of their model.  I certainly saw it displayed at one York, and think it was in a catalog, for l, apparently  alone in the wilderness, lost no time in ordering one.  Somebody probably photoed it on MTH's shelves at whatever York that was (wish l had), and maybe it was cataloged?  Certainly was my big disappointment in "built-to-ordet", when cancelled.

I'm about 2/3 done with my first prototype so your long wait may soon be over!

@Tom Tee posted:

Ken,  With your capable 3D printing skill set you may want to consider setting up production for Lionel GG-1 truck side frames.

I understand that there are quite a few Lionel GG-1 owners in need of them.  Me included.

Would this be for a scale GG1 or a postwar-sized one? I have a MTH Railking GG1 to compare but I don't think the trucks are similar to any of the Lionel models.

I have kept my 3D printer spinning making the prototypes for the 72' McKeen car kits over the past few days. For ease of printing I divided the body into 3 pieces-- Bow, Center and Stern. The three pieces will slot together and bolt to the existing holes in the Doodlebug frame. I pulled the bow section off yesterday after a 24-hour print. Looks like the high-speed profile for the large pieces is working very well! With this I can crank out a complete kit on my Qidi XPLUS in about 70-75 hours of nonstop printing.

So far the Railking Doodlebug's frame requires only 1 modification to fit the new body: you have to grind down the corners of the frame in the front to make room for the sloped bow. I sheared off a couple of pieces with my parallel jaw pliers and then cleaned up the burrs with metal files; the wiser choice would be a Dremel cutoff wheel but I didn't want to dig mine out.

The new pilot bolts onto the existing tapped holes on the frame with two 4-40 screws. The fit is good, but the part is printing a little rough. I need to make the spokes a little thicker and change the printer profile so they come out cleaner. The solid pilot also fits but is a little too short so I need to redo the drawing.

I just pulled the stern section off the printer a couple hours ago and finished cleaning it so I could check the fit. Bow and stern sections both fit the Doodlebug frame nicely, the screw posts are all aligned with the existing frame holes and there is 1/16" of clearance over the top of each motor flywheel.

The center section is on the Qidi right now and should be done printing by tomorrow morning. Once I have put the first kit together and made a few minor improvements, I will be ready for production. If all goes well I could start officially taking orders next weekend. Stay tuned!

That's really cool, I'll have to find a doodlebug to chop up.

Wow love your progress, and I would certainly like to order one to fit on my Rail King doodlebug, after the modifications to the frame like you show. This is really exciting, and can't wait for more progress reports! This is so cool!  Jeff

The Body is beautiful !  As a single unit or maybe pulling a trailer, there is no need for 2 motors, ( having done a conversion on the MTh  doodlebug with full interior, that pulls an 80'/20" car that weighs about 4 1/2 pounds with out a problem.  If I can get one , I will make my own floor, and power truck, and add a interior! again it looks beautiful

I have modified "Buddy" RDC chasses to power O scale gas electric kits, so will use that.  Oddly, l have a stray MTH doodlebug body, that l want to identify and modify to a Rocky Mountain east slope prototype, but not the chassis, which was planned to get a "Buddy" chassis.  Will like to see if this works with McKeen body. Have already lengthened "Buddy" frame for one finished gas electric kit project.

I have a doodlebug just waiting for the McKeen body. Please let me know when these are available.

@Dave Koehler: I tend to prefer dual motors since my layout has grades, but I have had satisfactory results with single motors in some projects. It's all in how you add weights to the locomotive! The Railking Doodlebug has a very heavy frame and thick castings inside the trucks so I suspect it would work alright with just one motor.

@colorado hirailer: That's a good tip on the Buddy kits. I'm looking in to picking up one of those for future experimentation.

@RoyBoy: You won't have much longer to wait. I've finished the file adjustments for the production kits and have been printing the final revision over the last three days. I will start formally taking orders as soon as I'm happy with my printing process.

The very first prototype McKeen car is fully assembled!

Here's that sharp knife-edged bow that we all know and love. The production kits will come with two pilots, a solid pilot and a spoked one, both slightly improved from the one you see on this prototype.

Here's the view from the stern. The mail trailer shows the color scheme I'm planning for my personal McKeen (Rustoleum Colonial Red with faded gold decals). I will be offering these trailer kits to accompany the McKeens in case anyone is interested.

The three body sections bolt to the frame using ten of the Doodlebug's original screw holes. There are 4 mounting posts in the bow, 4 posts in the stern and 2 posts in the center section. The two ends overlap the center section so everything lines up nicely. The mounting posts are sized for 1/2" to 3/4" length #4 wood screws.

The Doodlebug's original rear coupler was about 1/2" too short for the new frame, so I fabricated and printed up a new coupler. These are the same sturdy couplers used in my Whitcomb and Borden Milk Car builds with a lengthened shank. They fit to the MTH truck's coupler pocket using all of the original hardware. I will include one of these with each kit so you don't have to hunt around for a special coupler.

As I promised RoyBoy, the first of the production kits is about 3/4 done, I should have the whole kit finished by tomorrow evening and I will start taking orders then. Look for an update with the final print, formal pricing and build schedule in the very near future!

minor edit to finish a sentence

I'll be waiting to see your final listing for the kits.

The first production McKeen kit is ready to go-- on time and under budget! I am officially taking orders for McKeen Car body conversion kits!

Here are the contents of each 72ft McKeen Car kit. There are 3 body sections, a power truck frame, two idler truck subframes, two pilots and a long-shanked coupler.

You can see how the body sections slide together. As I demonstrated in the prototype build, all of the screw bosses you see align with existing holes in the MTH Railking Doodlebug's frame for easy conversion.

Each kit will ship with two pilots so you can choose which one suits your fancy.

I am also offering the 40-foot mail car kits! Each kit contains 1 40' scale body, 4 opening doors and 1 hand-cut brass frame so you can mount the trucks and couplers of your choosing.

I will cut and install the door guide wires for you. These keep the doors from falling out or sliding around.

And now at long last, here's how you can get your very own McKeen!

What You Can Order

72-foot McKeen Car kit: $125 plus shipping

40-foot McKeen mail trailer kit: $75 plus shipping

72-foot McKeen Car and 40-foot mail trailer kits together: $200 with free shipping!

How To Order

I will be taking reservations for the next 7 days (from 1/28/22 to 2/4/22). Send me an email at the address on my OGR profile to make your reservation. Tell me which kit or kits you would like and give me your mailing address so I can calculate the postage. Each kit takes a solid 4 days of printer time so there will probably be a waiting list (I will try to estimate wait times as best I can). I will issue you an invoice when your order is complete and ready to ship.

I now have 1 McKeen kit and 1 trailer kit fully printed and enough material on hand to manufacture 2 additional McKeens, which should keep my printer whirring for another week and a half. I will order enough additional material to fulfill however many reservations I receive in the next week. Looking forward to fulfilling your decade-long quest for the O Scale McKeen!

Will you consider a floor for both for those that want this in two-rail?

E mail sent

Email sent. Wish I had been watching this thread more closely and sent an email sooner.

@RoyBoy posted:

Email sent. Wish I had been watching this thread more closely and sent an email sooner.

Roy, how do you plan on building yours?

@Dave Koehler posted:

Roy, how do you plan on building yours?

Don't understand your question. Can you clarify?

I have a doodlebug for the running gear. Not sure what the paint job will be. There is a nicely restored McKeen in northern Nevada and it is a nice color.

I am not a fan of Union Pacific, after they tried to get all the toy train companies to pay royalties and MTH's lawyers quashed that.

Who else had McKeen cars? Are there any color pictures?

One of the three Kealty books on gas electrics, "Interurbans Without Wires" lists three pages of roads, big and small, that used McKeens.  Erie, LA and San Diego Beach, Pgh and Silver Creek, CNW, SP, NP, ATSF, RI, and the Denver, Larimee, and Western, which went to Great Western (the one l want to model), and then to UP to last until 1944! Just a few on the fine printed list.   One was rebuilt as a steam car, and then as a gas electric. So, in addition to Cuba and Australia, one ran near you.  (Didn't see one in Maine, but list is by road name and not by location)

Here are several pictures from the Nevada Train Museum. May be of help with painting and decaling Ken’s models.

@RoyBoy posted:

Don't understand your question. Can you clarify?

I have a doodlebug for the running gear. Not sure what the paint job will be. There is a nicely restored McKeen in northern Nevada and it is a nice color.

I am not a fan of Union Pacific, after they tried to get all the toy train companies to pay royalties and MTH's lawyers quashed that.

Who else had McKeen cars? Are there any color pictures?

Sorry, was tired when posted the question.  And I see you are using the doodlebug . I have mine prepped, had planned on  an interior, so I removed the rear motor , but Im not sure , what to do with the metal floor, or the cab area. do you have any plans?

As far as color photo's the closest I have seen are a couple of are a couple of colorized post cards  all in that maroon.

Here are some pictures of a father and son, now both deceased, who built three McKeens for use on a private property layout. I think these are 15" gauge units. All hand built, painted and lettered. for the Woodstock and Sycamore Ry. My wife and I were able to run these during our visits, many years ago. They are wonderful models, and I have no idea where they are today. I am just learning how to use my Epsom scanner, so these may not be the best.

Is the light colored roof generally what was used? The Virginia city car and the 15" home built cars have them.

I can understand that for keeping the passengers cool, but would think that most doodlebug-type passenger vehicles would have black tar paper roofs.

I like this. Gonna check my slush fund.

@AGHRMatt posted:

I like this. Gonna check my slush fund.

It should be a fun build.  From what I have seen , there is from the factory( in the early 1900's) rebuilds repowered and modified through the 1940's , the body its self must have been built well!

@PRRMP54: I've thought about designing a floor for the McKeen car. It would be nice to provide for opening doors and a real "entryway" behind the lower door. I have experimented with 3D printed frames before. I may revisit this once I clear my current backlog of jobs.

@Jan: Resin printers have their upsides, but there are some definite downsides too. I have found that resin prints tend to be brittle, the support material is tedious to cut off and both the resin and the chemicals used to clean the parts are thoroughly unpleasant to work with (most resins are corrosive, have a short shelf life and stink to high heaven!). I've been researching some of the late-model resin printers and low-fume resins but haven't found a wholly satisfactory solution yet.

It's Friday the 4th and time is almost out-- reservations for 72' McKeen Cars will be closed at midnight EST. I have taken orders for seven 72' McKeen Car kits and three 40' mail trailer kits. I have just shipped out the first 4 kits (the respective Forumites have been notified) and I will be printing up and sending out the remaining six over the next several weeks. Thank you for your support and feedback in this very interesting production project!

Silly question but has snyone attempted to swap the wheels out of an MTH railking truck block so a larger drive wheel is in the front and a smaller [drive] wheel is in the rear just like the 1:1 McKeen car?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Silly question but has snyone attempted to swap the wheels out of an MTH railking truck block so a larger drive wheel is in the front and a smaller [drive] wheel is in the rear just like the 1:1 McKeen car?

that  wont work the car will look higher in the front and lower in the back. the axel center is on the front axel would have to be raised to compensate   for the larger wheel.

I should have mine next week and we shall see