kinda late to the game on the GG1 talk... but i picked up my PC GG1 new in box, the insualators were still on the little rubber trees.... got it off EBAY for maybe $175 ish... i know it was under $200. theres a couple of them on ebay now.... i've been looking for a caboose for it too... i know its not MPC but MTH has this maroon colored N5C that i've had my eyes on for a while.... MTH has nice caboose's....
and if your looking for a runner, you can pick up a williams PC gg1 for dirt cheap as well, i've seen them go under $100 before...
Are those companies still around? I'd like to convert a couple of more modern locomotives to magnatraction if I could and get rid of the traction tires.quote:Originally posted by C W Burfle:
There were several companies offering conversions to magnetraction. So anybody who really wanted magnetraction could have it.
Ken, et. al.,
Thanks for starting this thread and keeping it going with the great shots of MPC era trains. I really am not familiar with these, and certainly don't own any, but it's been great learning more about this part of Lionel's history.
It's enough to even make me consider picking up a few MPC sets!
Thanks for starting this thread and keeping it going with the great shots of MPC era trains. I really am not familiar with these, and certainly don't own any, but it's been great learning more about this part of Lionel's history.
It's enough to even make me consider picking up a few MPC sets!
Ken, Thanks for the post and pictures of the 783 Hudson. You are right - the scale sized Hudson of any kind is a wonderful sight to see on a layout. Some are better than others, but I would like to have all of them beginning with a 783. (I already have the 773) They are magnificent looking and I will keep looking. Dick
Mike Donahue: Retrofit horn & whistle kits are available from companies such as Dallee and others for PW & MPC engines and are easy enough to install. Check the ads in OGR. It's a circuit board and either a speaker or (cheapest) an old PW style bike-type horn. Two wires & wire nuts and some double-faced tape and you're done.
Here's a video from 1990 with lots of MPC era trains running on the first NLOE layout.
Bad link see repost below
Bad link see repost below
Here's an older MPC end of year boxcar not seen to often.
Joe.
Joe.
I've already provided positive inputs on MPC product, but to be fair about it we should include, MPC, Kenner and Kuhn era US made products in the same discussion.
It was only until Jerry Calabrese arrived that a sharp and aggressive new direction into electronic controlled trains began. There were many new innovative Lionel products that were developed during this time. It is also the period which began the practice of outsourcing foreign made products.
It was only until Jerry Calabrese arrived that a sharp and aggressive new direction into electronic controlled trains began. There were many new innovative Lionel products that were developed during this time. It is also the period which began the practice of outsourcing foreign made products.
quote:I've already provided positive inputs on MPC product, but to be fair about it we should include, MPC, Kenner and Kuhn era US made products in the same discussion.
It was only until Jerry Calabrese arrived that a sharp and aggressive new direction into electronic controlled trains began. There were many new innovative Lionel products that were developed during this time.
We think alike.. There is another active thread covering the entire 30 year 1970-2000 period. Lionel 1970-2000
Love to see both threads put into a collectors folder, Especially so now that threads won't be chopped after six months.
For sure I'd be a frequent visitor & contributer.
Joe
Although not decorated by Lionel, a great looking car. I think in the Greenberg guides it mentions this particular car got Lionel thinking about their own Lionel decorated items, starting with the 5712 posted a few threads ago.
Here's a link to video taken in 1990 at the NLOE's first location, 99% of what you see will be MPC trains running.
http://youtu.be/j0Jc-ebMnJE
LOL forgot how to put the video in
http://youtu.be/j0Jc-ebMnJE
LOL forgot how to put the video in
great vid!
Dave
Dave
quote:
Saw one of those in a local antique store today ($95).
They had a bunch of MPC stuff. A 1976 Bicentennial freight set (GP7 or GP9 I think), a bunch of high cube boxcars (all at around $10), a Conrail TOFC($20) and I think a tank car, passenger car, vat car and possibly a few others.
I have an 8056 Trainmaster too. Great Engine. It'll pull 40 cars up a grade, runs smooth and looks great.
In my opinion there were 2 negatives to MPC era GG-1s:
1 - No horn, and:
2 - The power trucks had nylon side gears which weren't as durable as the metal gears (which can be swapped into the MPC trucks) used by "old" Lionel starting with the postwar #2330 in '50. DK
1 - No horn, and:
2 - The power trucks had nylon side gears which weren't as durable as the metal gears (which can be swapped into the MPC trucks) used by "old" Lionel starting with the postwar #2330 in '50. DK
quote:Originally posted by Harry736:
I have an 8056 Trainmaster too. Great Engine. It'll pull 40 cars up a grade, runs smooth and looks great.
Here's a Pullman Standard 1,000,000 commemorative boxcar.
I worked at the Hammond, Indiana plant from June 1979 (just graduated from HS) until August 1980 when I was permantly laid off. At the time we were building Superliner cars for Amtrak.
I worked at the Hammond, Indiana plant from June 1979 (just graduated from HS) until August 1980 when I was permantly laid off. At the time we were building Superliner cars for Amtrak.
As others have mentioned, this is such a great thread (as was the other MPC thread from a few weeks ago).
In looking at what's out there on-line on eBay (to name one site), really amazing how much MPC product there is in excellent condition and at decent prices. In fact, you could easily put together many of the various sets by buying cars individually.
Maybe I'll give it a whirl.
In looking at what's out there on-line on eBay (to name one site), really amazing how much MPC product there is in excellent condition and at decent prices. In fact, you could easily put together many of the various sets by buying cars individually.
Maybe I'll give it a whirl.
I grew up on the MPC products as well. They were colorful and fun! Kept hearing about the lower quality, but when you never had any earlier trains to compare to except Marx, they seemed highly detailed and good runners. Part of the fun of building an MPC collection was that I was not priced out of getting a good amount of what I wanted. I still like them, even though I also appreciate the higher quality and detail of most of the more modern trains. I see MPC as filling a niche market for the kids and collectors, that are on a limited budget; or operators that just like the look of "toy" trains and getting in on some bargains. Nothing wrong with it. Good way to get started into the hobby.
Here is a paragraph from the T-M book on MPC that has a very detailed account on how MPC came into being, and the first 10 years of MPC operations.
"The acquisition (of Model Products Corp by General Mills) came in November of 1968, at a time when General Mills was rapidly expanding into the toy field.
Within a few months General Mills acquired Parker Brothers, Kenner Toys, and Craft Master. Watching all of this was a man named Ronald Saypol, the president of a firm that had the greatest name in all of toys: The Lionel Corporation of New York, New York. Lionel had a good name but in 1968 it was making bad trains and it did not even want to make those any longer".
Back to some photos.
The robust smoke unit of the 8600
Profile of the first MPC Passenger Set, The Milwaukee Special
Greenberg produced a book about using MPC era trains in the mid-70's
"The acquisition (of Model Products Corp by General Mills) came in November of 1968, at a time when General Mills was rapidly expanding into the toy field.
Within a few months General Mills acquired Parker Brothers, Kenner Toys, and Craft Master. Watching all of this was a man named Ronald Saypol, the president of a firm that had the greatest name in all of toys: The Lionel Corporation of New York, New York. Lionel had a good name but in 1968 it was making bad trains and it did not even want to make those any longer".
Back to some photos.
The robust smoke unit of the 8600
Profile of the first MPC Passenger Set, The Milwaukee Special
Greenberg produced a book about using MPC era trains in the mid-70's
I wish they would have left the marker lights about the boiler front like on the PW 2-6-4 models. The first run they did had it ( the 8204), but then it was moved to be in the boiler front.
Lionel during the MPC era put out a nice set of weathered woodsided boxcars featuring sprung diecast trucks. I think eight cars total before the series ended.
Joe
Joe
I love those cars! I don't have any, but I plan on getting them one day. The looked really good for the time & still look good behind a mid sized steamer.
I just thought I'd let folks know I have quite abit of MPC that belonged to my father (passed away in 97). If anyone is interested in contacting me I'd entertain getting together for a visit to my mother's in S Jersey, near Del Mem Bridge.
I would be looking at sales, trades or getting creative. I've done this a couple times before with great results for both parties. There's also some tin prewar and TMCC. I have no lists but write if interested. jjbowe@comcast.net
I am not interested in shipping, this is a spur of the moment thing that if it's meant to be, okay.
Thank you, John
I would be looking at sales, trades or getting creative. I've done this a couple times before with great results for both parties. There's also some tin prewar and TMCC. I have no lists but write if interested. jjbowe@comcast.net
I am not interested in shipping, this is a spur of the moment thing that if it's meant to be, okay.
Thank you, John
quote:Lionel during the MPC era put out a nice set of weathered woodsided boxcars featuring sprung diecast trucks. I think eight cars total before the series ended.
Only the first eight cars (5700-5707) were weathered. Lionel continued making woodside reefers, with numbers in sequence after the weathered ones, but they were no longer weathered. I believe that Lionel may also have switched to plastic trucks for the non-weathered cars.
Some folks may remember that these cars, like many Lionel items at the time, did end up on closeout lists. Folks looking to buy these cars may wish to verify that the cars have the correct diecast sprung trucks.
Since the cars hit the closeout pile, occasionally folks would buy them, swap the diecast trucks out for plastic ones, and sell the cars at a discount.
I also enjoy many of the MPC era products and have occasionally written articles defending that much-maligned time of Lionel's history. Needle-point axles with fixed wheels, die-cast sprung trucks, bright and colorful deco, and -- in tough economic times -- affordable versions of Postwar classics all combined to add a measure of respect to the 1970-1985ish timeframe of Lionel production.
Personally, I like the fact that you can acquire an FM Train Master at a very low price, and retro-fit it with a Postwar-type horn assembly without any guilt of "de-valuing" a classic piece. I can (and have) made reversible changes like add a steam chest with valve guides and a Postwar smoke unit to a 783 Hudson. I've replaced the plastic boiler front and trailing trucks with die-cast versions on the 611 N&W J. As some may already know I've also replaced the motor truck assembly on items like the Virginian ELC with a Postwar Magne-Traction/metal gears version. Takes less than a minute and suddenly you've got a smooth puller that didn't cost over $500 to purchase.
I agree with the aforementioned areas where MPC products fell short, especially with regards to using the GE 44-ton switcher motor assembly in Geeps and U-boats (with worthless tire-traction). Lack of horns, or use of shrill electronic horns (and no, I never really liked the electronic whistle, either) are other let downs. But, that was the time and it's understandable that MPC had to downgrade certain features/develop new technology in order to offer an affordable product at the time.
As I've previously discussed with other members of the hobby around my age, we didn't grow up with orange and blue boxes. We had red and white. In some ways, that pales in comparison. But it still managed to make a life-long impact.
Personally, I like the fact that you can acquire an FM Train Master at a very low price, and retro-fit it with a Postwar-type horn assembly without any guilt of "de-valuing" a classic piece. I can (and have) made reversible changes like add a steam chest with valve guides and a Postwar smoke unit to a 783 Hudson. I've replaced the plastic boiler front and trailing trucks with die-cast versions on the 611 N&W J. As some may already know I've also replaced the motor truck assembly on items like the Virginian ELC with a Postwar Magne-Traction/metal gears version. Takes less than a minute and suddenly you've got a smooth puller that didn't cost over $500 to purchase.
I agree with the aforementioned areas where MPC products fell short, especially with regards to using the GE 44-ton switcher motor assembly in Geeps and U-boats (with worthless tire-traction). Lack of horns, or use of shrill electronic horns (and no, I never really liked the electronic whistle, either) are other let downs. But, that was the time and it's understandable that MPC had to downgrade certain features/develop new technology in order to offer an affordable product at the time.
As I've previously discussed with other members of the hobby around my age, we didn't grow up with orange and blue boxes. We had red and white. In some ways, that pales in comparison. But it still managed to make a life-long impact.
quote:Originally posted by C W Burfle:quote:Lionel during the MPC era put out a nice set of weathered woodsided boxcars featuring sprung diecast trucks. I think eight cars total before the series ended.
Only the first eight cars (5700-5707) were weathered. Lionel continued making woodside reefers, with numbers in sequence after the weathered ones, but they were no longer weathered. I believe that Lionel may also have switched to plastic trucks for the non-weathered cars.
You are correct, once they went to the non weathered look, plastic arch bar trucks were the norm. The cars still looked good though.
Amazing!! These were the ones that started it all with vivid paint & bright graphics.
Forty years have passed since #9200 series cars hit the scene.
Me thinks every MPC/LTI collector needs a few of em in their collection.
Joe
Forty years have passed since #9200 series cars hit the scene.
Me thinks every MPC/LTI collector needs a few of em in their collection.
Joe
I agree. Those were the earliest 6464-type boxcars of the Modern Era. And the very first issues of those have metal door guides and the plastic trucks were made from the Postwar mold. Best yet: today they go for between $15 - $20. I have all of them (about a dozen, with the double-door boxcar to fill in the inside straight).quote:Originally posted by JC642:
Amazing!! These were the ones that started it all with vivid paint & bright graphics.
Forty years have passed since #9200 series cars hit the scene.
Me thinks every MPC/LTI collector needs a few of em in their collection.
Joe
I visited the Brewery back in the 60's Watched beer getting mixed & brewed in copper kettles.
One of my favorites from that early era..
Joe
One of my favorites from that early era..
Joe
Let's not forget the great MPC ere accessories. I know that most of you have
a RICO STATION. I have also the MPC Grain Elevator, Coal Station, Engine House,
Factory Building Kit, Passenger Freight Station, Sandy Andy Gravel Loader,
Diesal Horn Shed. Just some of the accessories you can pick up today.
Richard
a RICO STATION. I have also the MPC Grain Elevator, Coal Station, Engine House,
Factory Building Kit, Passenger Freight Station, Sandy Andy Gravel Loader,
Diesal Horn Shed. Just some of the accessories you can pick up today.
Richard
quote:Originally posted by Richy Rich:
Let's not forget the great MPC ere accessories. I know that most of you have
a RICO STATION. I have also the MPC Grain Elevator, Coal Station, Engine House,
Factory Building Kit, Passenger Freight Station, Sandy Andy Gravel Loader,
Diesal Horn Shed. Just some of the accessories you can pick up today.
Richard
You're right. MPC had some great accessories, from the postwar reissues, to their building kits, some of which you mentioned.
Another interesting part of MPC history is that for the first (5) years of production (1970 to 1975) their was some manufacturing done at Hillside.
After the move to Mt. Clemens was decided in 1970, MPC leased just under 50,000 square feet in the basement of the Hillside plant. With a limited staff Hillside was used to make some track, accessories, prototypes, and the first (2) F-3's Baltimore and Ohio and Canadian Pacific.
Lenny Dean remained based there with the Repair and Service departments until 1975 when they moved to a small facility in Little Falls that remained until 1979.
Some more MPC pictures;
The U36B was their first new body mold.
The dummy unit contained a horn, but was not lighted.
Matching porthole caboose.
I bought this Santa Fe GP-9 as part of a parts lot. It maybe a bit battered, but it runs great, the color is not black, but a very deep navy blue.
The Bay Window Caboose had a limited run in the PW years, but MPC created many.
Ken
After the move to Mt. Clemens was decided in 1970, MPC leased just under 50,000 square feet in the basement of the Hillside plant. With a limited staff Hillside was used to make some track, accessories, prototypes, and the first (2) F-3's Baltimore and Ohio and Canadian Pacific.
Lenny Dean remained based there with the Repair and Service departments until 1975 when they moved to a small facility in Little Falls that remained until 1979.
Some more MPC pictures;
The U36B was their first new body mold.
The dummy unit contained a horn, but was not lighted.
Matching porthole caboose.
I bought this Santa Fe GP-9 as part of a parts lot. It maybe a bit battered, but it runs great, the color is not black, but a very deep navy blue.
The Bay Window Caboose had a limited run in the PW years, but MPC created many.
Ken
A lot of the photos in the thread are deleated. They all have a "photobucket" sticky instead. WHat's that all about?
i have that smoking dinner on my layout and love it!
Dave
Dave
And then there was this..
Lionel MPC's first attempt at capturing a piece of the demanding "O" scale market, LOL.
Pressed out black plastic, no add on detail, plastic trucks, not even a screw to keep it all together. Plastic top snapped on the base.
I love it.
Joe
Lionel MPC's first attempt at capturing a piece of the demanding "O" scale market, LOL.
Pressed out black plastic, no add on detail, plastic trucks, not even a screw to keep it all together. Plastic top snapped on the base.
I love it.
Joe
quote:Lionel MPC's first attempt at capturing a piece of the demanding "O" scale market, LOL.
Pressed out black plastic, no add on detail, plastic trucks, not even a screw to keep it all together. Plastic top snapped on the base.
According to an old database I have, the 9604 High Cube came out in 1976.
The Standard "O" cars were introduced in 1973. There was a boxcar, reefer, flatcar and gondola, made in several roadnames.
quote:And the very first issues of those have metal door guides and the plastic trucks were made from the Postwar mold. Best yet: today they go for between $15 - $20. I have all of them (about a dozen, with the double-door boxcar to fill in the inside straight).
I've been looking for early MPC cars with timken trucks. I picked up a 9207 Soo boxcar with them at the Big "E" show. Cost was $10 for a mint one, in a nice box.
quote:A lot of the photos in the thread are deleated. They all have a "photobucket" sticky instead. WHat's that all about?
That's my bad, after I posted the first photos I decided to finally
organize my Photobucket photos. In organizing them into albums, all the
photobucket numbers changed.
Then again using photobucket will end with the new forum.
Ken
PS Let me know what photos you were looking for, and I'll repost.
quote:According to an old database I have, the 9604 High Cube came out in 1976.
The Standard "O" cars were introduced in 1973. There was a boxcar, reefer, flatcar and gondola, made in several roadnames.
You are right about MPC Standard O cars.. I posted a photo of the Strohs car a few posts above.
The #9600 series cars were called "O" Scale. Don't know if theres a difference and I may be wrong but if I recall these were to be closer to 1/48th scale then the previous Standard O cars.
Joe
